The next Foveon camera?

tarmov wrote:

Doppler9000 wrote:

Yes, but the compression ratio measure is easier as a crude measure.

How is comparing a camera’s resolution to an arbitrary jpeg easier than just looking at the resolution?

If you are looking at a 1:1 zoom on a fixed resolution screen, then the compression ratio measures the reduced ratio of information (and noise) per output pixel.

3.7x less information than the hypothetical 24-bit maximum.

And 2.2x less information.

If that 3.7x holds as an average compression ratio for average images from that Canon camera, then one could argue that Sigma DP2m records about 1.6x more information (and noise) per output pixel.

This is a new metric to me, so please correct any errors I have made.

As a photographer, aren’t you more interested in total image resolution, or resolution per image height? Measures of per-pixel information ignore the adavantages of higher pixel counts. At higher ISO levels, the noise to signal ratio of the Foveon will increase relative to the Bayer sensor. This ratio treats signal and noise as equally valuable in the output ratio.

I thought the discussion was about the upcoming Foveon. The debate is whether or not people thought the development was a sensible investment for Sigma or not.

But why such an objective?

This is a forum.

The decision model composed here would inevitably be hopelessly incomplete and thus would provide very little community value besides giving false impressions.

How have you determined this? If the best case for the FFF is trivial sales volumes, it might be the case that it will have been a poor investment, your fact-free assertion otherwise notwithstanding.

There seems to be one such thread every month or every other month.

If there are only a few thousand buyers anyway, then why bother persuading them?

This rather makes the point. Sigma is investing in a potentially fruitless project where the best-case upside seems pretty limited.

No, it doesn't make that point at all. At least not your point. And not the point of OP.

Do you have any data that support your contention that the investments made and that will be made developing a FFF camera will be profitable at the sales levels it might acheive?

I also doubt that the profit margins are much different from the past when digital cameras were in its infancy and production volumes were small.

Based on what?

Based on ceteris paribus.

This means “other things equal”. You don’t believe that the camera market has changed significantly over the past 25-30 years, and can’t understand how, for example, the iPhone et al have exerted significant competitive pressure on camera makers?

Have you looked at digital camera sales volumes or the financial statements of camera makers in arriving at your position?

Have you not been following the FFF saga? Year after year goes by, Sigma makes more announcements hopeful that future developments will pay off. That’s the point. They sink more and more new money into a project that will, at best, result in a niche camera of moderate resolution that will work only in bright light.

Let the market decide.

You and OP and some others seem to like to dictate or to persuade Sigma

and potential Foveon camera buyers on future outcomes.

This thread proves just how frightened and desperate they are.

Not really.

I merely sometimes react to perceived mental conditioning by FUD by outside forces.

You alluded to a conspiracy by other camera makers to engage agents to sow doubt about the FFF on this forum. I was being sarcastic.

I as a speaker of a small language am constantly hearing suggestions that my language is too small and insignificant and pointless and should switch 100% over to russian or to english. I also know that 95% of world languages are smaller than mine. And that my language is at the efficiency frontier in PISA test results with respect to the amount of language speakers.

Small is beautiful.

And there is room for Foveons in the camera market.

This is a false analogy. The surval of Estonian as a language is not at all analogous to the issues here. The questions are, 1), can Sigma even make a FFF sensor?, and 2), can they put it in a camera and sell it in sufficient volumes to make money?

You have presumed the answer to both questions is yes.

-Tarmo