Is a new Sigma APS-C camera in the offing...?

Hulyss Bowman wrote:

Scottelly wrote:

Hulyss Bowman wrote:

I tried to wrap my head around the idea of a new APS-C Foveon but didn't found any raisons for Sigma to do it today.

I'm far more attracted by the F13 sensor rendering, before the the DPx and SD15. For the history of the thing, the SD14, DP1 (1s), DP2 (2s) had a base ISO of 50 and a lower noise floor than the latest X variant and the SD15 and far lower than the Merril.

The OG F13, per Foveon Inc.

This have nothing to do with the sensor itself (F13) but with the DAC behind it. The SD15 was already a regression (as well as the DP1/2x) because their ability to blow highlights was very high compared to post DAC mod. I used them extensively as a pro back in the days and notified this difference immediately (and bought back a DP2s to keep consistency).

The DP2s was imho the pinacle of the F13, with ISO 50 (not common at this time), very good color rendition and of course, acutance, size. The poor man Leica.

Look at the quality of the DP2s, even on the OG catalogue ...

The Merril's where just mind-blowing at a perpixel resolving power standpoint. But the colors and renditions where not as natural as the f13. Let say it was a tour de force in the pixel piping world. Ppl was more focused on PP at that time, the more the better ... but the Merrill was not that good, at all.

Then we started to desire an FF variant of the foveon, way before the Quattro variant. Two clans was formed, one for a stretched Merrill with bazillion pixels (crop pp people) and one for a stretched low pixel density F13 sensor.

I wish that Sigma is returning to the original F13 sensor, let say a 3x15 Mpix refined sensor. I do not feel they need to compet with any other brands and just concentrate on color, subtleness and some better performances.

The FP body might be a good start to overcome some of the foveon shortcomings, with 3 fixed lenses ofc.

We must be patient I guess

Edit :

I also wish they implement a different lens for the DP2 variant. As a Nikon Shooter, the inexpensive 40f2Z is just absolutely gorgeous and versatile. They should build a DP2ff with this kind of lens imho.

I agree that a lens like that 40mm f2 would be perfect for a fixed-lens FFF, but let's just get an L mount FFF first.

All I was proposing was that I think Sigma could make an L mount SD Quattro very quickly, if they have any new, major setback. Of course, at this point I guess it might not make sense, but certainly the FFF will be more than twice the price of an L mount version of the SD Quattro, so both would likely sell, and not compete with each other. The Leica crowd would buy the FFF, while people like most of us in this forum would get the L mount SD Quattro (which would be much faster than the original SD Quattro, and it would have the advantage of being able to take all the L mount lenses, which I would love! . . . especially those new little i series lenses).

I actually think a lot of the people who would buy the FFF would get the APS-C camera for shooting animals, because of the crop factor. If it has a fast processor, then it would be equivalent to the new Fuji X-T5 (40 MP sensor APS-C), but without the video capabilities and IBIS. Not everyone wants IBIS though, and with a long lens it really isn't very effective, from what I have heard. I know the IBIS in my Sony A65 didn't work very well with my 100-300mm lens (which was not an image stabilized lens). Sigma's 150-600mm and 60-600mm lenses both have OS, so IBIS isn't needed.

To be totally frank, I do not think Sigma have any Quattro sensor left for any production. I think the Quattro was a compromise rather than a true foveon commitment. And this whole foundry story was a total disaster. Hopefully Sigma do not rely on camera sale because otherwise they would be really dead. We can only speculate on what really happened around this affaire, because it is business secret but it take a serious amount of courage and commitment to say : « well guys … we cut ties with our sensor manufacturer and we gonna do it in house … » that’s not like machining a lens barrel, at all. The investments for such adventures is gigantic. So someone wasn’t happy about the foveon road and decided to restart the whole thing. There is a good probability that the future foveon will be all but not « Quattro like » approach. But i’m also probably wrong 🤣

let’s not forget the human aspect behind the slick marketing and the sweet boss PR. It is probable, like in all corporations, that some ppl in charge took the wrong decisions and then the boss woke up to reroute the whole thing.

You're right. We'll probably never know. I do think Sigma probably used all the Quattro sensors in their SD Quattros and DP Quattros . . . but that doesn't mean they can't make more, using the exact same specifications, and it doesn't mean they can't make the exact same camera, but souped up, with a faster processor and maybe memory chips with twice or even four times the capacity, so the camera has a massive raw shooting buffer, like the SD 15 had. An improved viewfinder would probably be possible with such a faster processor, and all that would take is a slight change in software/firmware and a high-resolution screen. That change might mean better color in the viewfinder too (because they might use some sort of OLED screen instead of what they used before). It might be able to have a refresh rate that's much faster too, and the camera might never overheat, because of the new, super-fast processor, that they don't have to push to get performance. It might use less power when shooting too, so the camera might be capable of shooting over 500 photos on a single battery charge.

Of course that's a lot of "maybes" and "mights" in there, and my speculation hat is probably going to burn up with all this guessing about to fry my brain!

BTW, I was reading about the Leica S3 today, and that camera has built-in GPS. You can use it, and it uses a small amount of battery power, or you can turn it off, so it doesn't use any battery power. I would like that feature. Various companies do still put that into some of their cameras. The Canon 7D II has it.