E20 vs. digital Rebel

I just got a 300D kit ($925 circuitcity.com) and sold my E20. The things that drove me to the 300D were the E20's sloooow write speeds (I gave up shooting TIFF and shot 1/2.7 jpeg...just as good in my opinion), poor low light AF and so-so viewfinder. I found manual fine focus almost impossible in all but very well lit situations. The 1/2.7 large jpeg images took 20 seconds to write to a Transcend 256MB SM card. I didn't think that would be a factor when I got it, but it quickly rose to the top of my "gripe" list. I even had a few sunset shots missed during writes. Sounds hard to believe, but there isn't much time from when the sun peeks under an overcast layer to when it goes below horizon, and only getting off 8-10 shots was frustrating.

Other than that, it's a great camera. I think image quality is subjective, but I like the 300D better so far....haven't had much time with it yet, though. Not having a TCON hurt a few times, so I'll end up spending the same or more for a longer lens at some point.

I ended up almost even money on this changeover so it was an easy decision for me. Now if I had paid over $1000 for the E20, I'd be crying. I see PCMall still sells E20's for $1500...ouch!!

Funky Fat Rat said:

Does anyone have an opinion on the state of the E-20 vs. the Canon
digital Rebel?

Does the newer rebel provide more back for the buck?
I'm looking into another upgrade and i'm not quite sure whether i
should select the E20 or get the Rebel???

Click to expand...

Based on your comments should i assume that the write speeds are much quicker on the 300D? What about the slow focusing and low light focusing, is it much better or just slightly better on the 300D?

(It's always vey nice to hear from folks that have had both cameras

• Vince

gqmetro said:

Funky Fat Rat said:

Does anyone have an opinion on the state of the E-20 vs. the Canon
digital Rebel?

Does the newer rebel provide more back for the buck?
I'm looking into another upgrade and i'm not quite sure whether i
should select the E20 or get the Rebel???

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--

• Vince

I still have my E10 and a D Reb. After using the rebel for a little while, it is almost impossible for me to go back and shoot with the E10. I always liked the picture quality that I got from the E10 and I love the feel and control layout but that camera defines SLOW. I was also never all that thrilled about the image quality that I got from the TCON-300 or the WCON. I think in the long run the Rebel will end up costing you a lot more money than the E20 would since you will probably want to get a couple of lenses for it as well as an external flash (I find the on-camera flash to be largely worthless). Another thing I hate about the Exx cameras is the lame manual focus mode. I find MF to be MUCH better on the EF lenses. AF speed and accuracy on the rebel depends a lot on the lens being used. A slow low end lens like the one that comes in the kit will be about equal to the E10 but faster aperture lenses with ring ultrasonic motors can be blazingly fast at AF. I also find the full time manual focusing to be a very useful feature. I find the 4 frame bursts with both cameras to be pretty crummy and sometimes limiting, but at least the write speed of the rebel is MUCH faster than it is with the E10. Anyway, for me there is really no comparison between these two cameras. For me the rebel was the clear way to go. I agree strongly with the other posters who suggested trying both of the cameras out first and then making a decision. Also price out some of the EF lenses that you think you might want as the prices add up fast.

Greg

Peter Aczel said:

It supports ETTL flash metering. But you cannot reduce flash
exposition for example using fill flash. (On E-20 or on 10D you can
reduce flash force in 1/3 EV steps.)

Click to expand...

Fill flash can be controlled even with the build in flash with the normal exposure compensation (which controls the amount of "normal" light), the flash brightness will be adjusted automatically.

If you use an better external E-TTL flash, for example the sigma sg super, you have all features on that (flash compensation, second curtain flash,...)

Peter Aczel said:

As far as I see the responses here talk about Canon 10D. But the
question was E-20 vs 300D (Dig.Rebel). Great difference!

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No, it is in fact very little difference. The only situation where the 10D has an real advantage is sport phtography (larger Buffer, fixed servo focus mode), in all other situations you can get the same results with the rebel (sometime you have to press 1/2 buttons more to make the same adjustments, but you get the same result). Also write speed, sensor, autofocus and metering is nearly identical.

you might want full exposure on the scene with reduced (i.e. fill) flash strength on the main subject. That is something you would not achieve by reducing overall exposure.

gery said:

Fill flash can be controlled even with the build in flash with the
normal exposure compensation (which controls the amount of "normal"
light), the flash brightness will be adjusted automatically.

Click to expand...

--
Garry

Garry's Page: http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~gschaef

Garry Schaefer said:

you might want full exposure on the scene with reduced (i.e. fill)
flash strength on the main subject. That is something you would
not achieve by reducing overall exposure.

Click to expand...

The exposure compensation if used in combination with the flash does excatly this because if you select a negative value the ambient light will be darker and the flash will be stronger and if you select an positive value the flash will be throttled down and the ambient light will be brighter. This is a E-TTL function, the flash metering works indepantly of the exp.compensation. If the flash-metering sees the scene as underexposed (because of the neg. exp. compensation) the flash will be stronger and if the scene is already nearly bright enough (because of a positive exp. compensation) the flash strength will be reduced.
Just try it.

Funky Fat Rat said:

since the 300D has a changeable lens, do you consider dust on the
sensor to be a really big deal?

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No. My very first shoot with the 10D, I had a very large dust spot that I didnt notice while shooting but created a HUGE pos-processing mess. I thought this was my reintroduction to I-lens DSLRs (I had one years ago before using the E-10). I was furious, and thought this would be the norm. I had LITERALLY taken the camera out of the box, taken a new lens out of the box, mated the two with no fooling around and from the beginning had a dust problem.

I cleaned the CCD and have not had a problem since. I imagined having to clean the CCD every week or even more frequently to avoide the problem, but that ONE CLEANING was the only time I have done so in the past 7 months (or so) that I have owned the camera. Dust has been NO PROBLEM since that first shoot.

CAN dust be a problem? I'm sure it can. Hasnt been much of a problem for me. A bit of a scare, but hardly a problem. I would prefer a closed system for work, though, as the E-10's range was perfect for my work. For fun, though, I dont mind changing lenses w/ the abilty to go 500mm+ w/o that HUGE Oly addon.

-GageFX

...you have a good point. I hadn't thought of 'controlling' the flash in a reverse fashion by controlling the overall exposure in that way.

gery said:

Garry Schaefer said:

you might want full exposure on the scene with reduced (i.e. fill)
flash strength on the main subject. That is something you would

not achieve by reducing overall exposure. Hmm...some experimentation is in order.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

gery said:

The exposure compensation if used in combination with the flash
does excatly this because if you select a negative value the
ambient light will be darker and the flash will be stronger and if
you select an positive value the flash will be throttled down and
the ambient light will be brighter. This is a E-TTL function, the
flash metering works indepantly of the exp.compensation. If the
flash-metering sees the scene as underexposed (because of the neg.
exp. compensation) the flash will be stronger and if the scene is
already nearly bright enough (because of a positive exp.
compensation) the flash strength will be reduced.
Just try it.

Click to expand...

--
Garry

Garry's Page: http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~gschaef

Funky Fat Rat said:

Does anyone have an opinion on the state of the E-20 vs. the Canon
digital Rebel?

Does the newer rebel provide more back for the buck?
I'm looking into another upgrade and i'm not quite sure whether i
should select the E20 or get the Rebel???

--

• Vince

Click to expand...

I just purchased an E-20 for a tad over $1000 with a 5 year warranty. I thought about the digital rebel, and went with the Olympus instead, and I'll tell you why I made the decision I did:

First this is a personal decision. All the arguing can't prove one of these cameras over the other. They both are good.

First and foremost, the Olympus E-10/20 series is a workhorse. Many of you made good points, but you forgot the most important issue, reliability. the OLY will take good pictures with out fail. You all CRY about load times. The E-20 can burst three RAW 5 Megapixel images, and reload the magazine in 90 seconds. Is that screaming? No. But it's sure a lot better than not working at all.

I cannot afford to carry a backup camera, and there is NO question that the 90% metal case OLY is sturdier than the 90% plastic body 300D. What good is speed when you drop the dang thing and if falls apart??

Then of course there's the dust on the CCD, there's the OLY F2.0 lens, much better flash, lots of lens accessories, and it's a done deal.......................for me.

You have to decide what's most important.

Good luck

Good Point Kevin,

build quality and how the camera handles, feels....

There has been a posting here saying that

if you don't feeld comfortable with your camera you will not get the same results because of handling issues.

I once tried a Leica SLR and in the Leica forum they call it "Haptik" and they care a lot about it. The way the photographic tools feel in your hands.

It doesn't matter how good - as long as you fell uncomfortable or unsure with it you'll not get the results you want.

For me (!) the E20 feels just great !

I know the disadvantages and I'm looking for another tool to compensate (sports photos, low light) - but I'll stay with the E20 for the whole rest !

Paul

I don't believe it works that way, but then again I have not had any experience with the D Rebel. But on any other digital I've owned with a pop up flash and no flash compensation control, it's been nearly impossible to control the flash intensity by adjusting for exposure. I would require to see proof of this capability in the D Rebel in order to believe it. On a SLR type camera such as the Rebel, it may prove to be workable, but results with a flash compensation control such as the Oly's will be easier to set and more precisely use without overly affecting desired DOF.

Garry Schaefer said:

gery said:

Garry Schaefer said:

you might want full exposure on the scene with reduced (i.e. fill)
flash strength on the main subject. That is something you would

not achieve by reducing overall exposure. Hmm...some experimentation is in order.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Garry Schaefer said:

The exposure compensation if used in combination with the flash
does excatly this because if you select a negative value the
ambient light will be darker and the flash will be stronger and if
you select an positive value the flash will be throttled down and
the ambient light will be brighter. This is a E-TTL function, the
flash metering works indepantly of the exp.compensation. If the
flash-metering sees the scene as underexposed (because of the neg.
exp. compensation) the flash will be stronger and if the scene is
already nearly bright enough (because of a positive exp.
compensation) the flash strength will be reduced.
Just try it.

Click to expand...

--
Garry

Garry's Page: http://www3.mb.sympatico.ca/~gschaef

Click to expand...

--
'Functionless art is simply tolerated vandalism.' --Peter Steele

Good Point ! VERY GOOD POINT! nt

Funky Fat Rat said:

Based on your comments should i assume that the write speeds are
much quicker on the 300D? What about the slow focusing and low
light focusing, is it much better or just slightly better on the
300D?

Click to expand...

The Canon will write the largest image to the card in about 2 sec vs. about 20 for the Oly. That was reason #1 for my switch. I can't say that the low light AF is way better. The thing I didn't like about the E20 was it would indicate "in focus" even if it couldn't get it....especially in low light. That combined with my viewfinder issues made low light work very frustrating...it would indicate in focus, then looking at the review, it would be out. I like the 300D focus assist using the flash. I'm used to that from my old film Minolta.

Kevin Dahlen said:

I just purchased an E-20...
First this is a personal decision. All the arguing can't prove one
of these cameras over the other. They both are good.

Click to expand...

I agree. Each camera has its strong and weak points. And that's what has to be taken into consideration. You have to weigh those points against each other and decide what you prefer to gain or lose when choosing between the two.

Kevin Dahlen said:

First and foremost, the Olympus E-10/20 series is a workhorse.

Click to expand...

No argument there.

Kevin Dahlen said:

You all CRY about load times. The E-20 can burst three RAW 5
Megapixel images, and reload the magazine in 90 seconds. Is that
screaming? No.

Click to expand...

That's why I went 300D. I need faster write times. The trade off I made is a plastic body. Time will tell how it will hold up. I tend to be pretty gentle on cameras so that was a trade off I could afford.

Kevin Dahlen said:

Then of course there's the dust on the CCD, there's the OLY F2.0
lens, ...

Click to expand...

The dust issue will be new for me and that was one reason I got the E20 in the first place. That lens is nice also, but only being able to shoot up to 320 ASA (and not using flash) was a problem for me. The higher speeds on the 300D (400, 800), IMO, are just as good as Oly's 320. The 300D doesn't seem as noisy....but that's just me.

Kevin Dahlen said:

You have to decide what's most important.

Click to expand...

That you do. And thanks to these forums, it's possible to make an informed decision. I spent much time at this site before purchasing the E20 or 300D. What a great resource!!

gqmetro said:

gqmetro said:

You have to decide what's most important.

Click to expand...

That you do. And thanks to these forums, it's possible to make an
informed decision. I spent much time at this site before
purchasing the E20 or 300D. What a great resource!!

Click to expand...

Yeah, your right about that.

I first found this site when I wanted to get feedback on some non-oly lenses on Ebay. I found all the info I wanted immediatly, and was excellent!! Saved me some serious cash and possible problems.