Seriously, Canon?

nnowak said:

If you want to talk about stupid, Canon is still selling over a million DSLRs a year.

Click to expand...

:-D

O.k., that was a good point, granted.

thunder storm said:

nnowak said:

If you want to talk about stupid, Canon is still selling over a million DSLRs a year.

Click to expand...

:-D

O.k., that was a good point, granted.

Click to expand...

Canon only makes 1 Professional model and that is a DSLR ?

nnowak said:

rz64 said:

nnowak said:

thunder storm said:

A used R is around 1000 euro these days. If you do some creative shopping with third party EF occasions you can get a whole lot of IQ for your buck. I got a used Tamron 17-35mm f/2.8-4.0 for only 310 euro, and a Sigma 100-400mm Contemporary for only 450 euro and a Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art for only 350 euro. These prices are M territory, while the IQ is definitely a whole lot better.

We might also see the R6mkI come down in price, especially used ones. If you pair it with an RF 24-240mm USM and one or two primes it's more expensive than M, but it's good value for money imo.

Not everybody needs a stabilized 135mm. The Sigma Art is half the price, and if it's IQ isn't good enough for you..... you're beyond my level of pixel peeping.

Yes RF is expensive, but there are ways to keep those prices more down to earth making it still value for money.

That said it's a shame of course Canon is killing M. Canon isn't killing it because it's not capable. Canon kills M because it's too capable for it's price. Without the killing of M the R10 and that odd 18-45mm couldn't simply survive. Canon wants you to pay more for getting less, and this is how they do it.

Click to expand...

I was with you until you got to the conspiracy theories. Reality just does not agree with you. On the Japanese BCN rankings, the M50 and M50 II have been in the top 5 for multiple consecutive years. That was until the R10 was launched. The R10 has now been in the top 5 for the last two months and the M50 II has not. This was all well before any rumors of the M50 II being discontinued. Canon killing off the M system has nothing to do with protecting expensive RF gear and everything to do with it no longer being economically feasible to support multiple incompatible mounts. Canon is now selling about one quarter of the number of cameras they did in the past. It only makes sense that the camera lineup would also be about one quarter of what is was in the past.

While you may not personally like the R10, it is all-around more capable than the M50 II and appears to be well received by the masses. The RF-S lens lineup does look quite paltry, but so was the EF-M lineup at launch in 2012 The 11-22mm did not launch until a year later and was not sold in the USA until three years after the launch of the M system (2015). It took Canon six years to launch the eighth lens, the 32mm f/1.4. RF-S is not even at the 6 month mark yet. At least the R10 and R7 have native full frame RF options available instead of resorting to adapting the EF 50mm f/1.8 or EF 35mm f/2.0 IS like so many had to do with the M system.

Click to expand...

I would indeed support the opinion of thunder storm: "Canon kills M because it's too capable for its price".

It is you who is - once more - spreading conspiracy theories. Where does your conclusion, that the R10 "appears to be well received by the masses", come from? Just because it has been in the top 5 "for the last two months"?

Click to expand...

The point, which you seem to have missed is that even though the R10 might not be appealing to current M users, people are buying the R10

nnowak said:

What should be the reason to buy the R10? Because of two mediocre zoom lenses?

Click to expand...

It is Canon's cheapest camera with full sensor oversampled 4k and DPAF. Paired with the RF 100-400mm is it one of the cheapest options for long reach.

Click to expand...

Giving 24Mp aps-c + non L zoom IQ + unavoidable diffraction. If that floats your boat >> get the R10. What's the meaning of "reach" when the sharpness suffers that much? The R5 will give almost the same amount of detail in crop mode with that lens. Does it have less reach doing so? Does it have less reach in full frame mode?

Cutting of the borders and the optical detail those borders contain isn't the same as reach, sorry.

nnowak said:

The design is very familiar to an existing DSLR user

Click to expand...

The "it's bigger so it should be better" assumption.

nnowak said:

while offering significant improvements over a DSLR. It is built using a mount that Canon is dedicated to supporting long term.

Click to expand...

For those users it's probably more about backwards compatibility with existing lenses when it comes to sensor size rather than future compatibility of the mount. If they would worry about long term support they should worry about Canon supporting dedicated aps-c glass in the long term. This is the third time Canon starts all over again, and the first two trials (ef-s + M) where never completed, while the future market demand has less room for aps-c products anyway.

nnowak said:

Want more?

Click to expand...

Yes: Sustainability for aps-c please, that would be nice for too big camera's with future oriented mounts. Future mount, ancient sensor size, not so rosy prospects for RF-s glass. That's the R10.

nnowak said:

nnowak said:

Where are comparable (to EF-M) native RF-S lenses? If they will come, it will be as thunder has written: "Canon wants you to pay more for getting less".

Click to expand...

It took Canon six years to get to a total of eight M lenses.

Click to expand...

1. That was too slow for M so it's a poor reference, and will definitely be too slow for a sunsetting sensor size.

2. That line up was complete only if it's all about compactness, and no requirements for AF speed. RF-s is not all about compactness, and AF speed matters, so the task is a bit harder here.

nnowak said:

RF-S is not even six months old.

Click to expand...

If it's all about giving current ef-s lenses mirrorless AF it's probably complete already. If it pretends to be more Canon should hurry up. Canon should have released those bodies with at least one f/1.4 prime in the 22-35mm range. Just one acceptable zoom (and that horrible 18-45mm) isn't a very promising start.....

nnowak said:

The two RF-S lenses that have launched are at the same price as the comparable EF-M lenses.

Click to expand...

That's definitely not true in my market.

m100 said:

Feigerou said:

Saw the couple of rumor updates lately -

1. The M200 is discontinued, and the M50ii body only kit is discontinued too
2. The Canon R6ii and RF 135mm specs and pricing for release soon

https://www.canonrumors.com/usd-pri...as-leaked-ahead-of-the-imminent-announcement/

And all I can think is... Seriously, Canon?!? I'm sure all that R gear is fantastic, but it's just so stupidly expensive. They're not remotely close to replacing the M system with R. Both the R6ii and RF 135mm, by themselves, are more expensive then my entire M kit - which includes some fabulous glass.

I've been toying around with the idea of getting a refurbished M6ii before they're gone, but then being stuck without an upgrade path has held me back. That's probably just fine because this makes it pretty clear that R is going to stay way out of my price range. The "cheap" R lenses I'd go for would be the 35mm and 85mm but those are still 2-3 times the cost of the M equivalents...

Unless Canon comes to its senses - brings the best M lenses to RF-S, and opens up to third party lenses - it's looking more and more like I'll just hang on to my M gear as long as I can and then will bail to another system when I really need some upgrade or something breaks down.

Click to expand...

Right now you can get a refurbished M6II from Canon USA for $549.

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/refurbished-eos-m6-mark-ii-body-silver

Click to expand...

You sure can. You wont be happy to know that they likely didnt fix anything on the refurbs- because they never did. There's no parts, they have always swapped them (as per canon rep, 2021)

Now my third one has the dreaded CLOCK RESET....every single time u swap battery. Every. Single time. Im not sure if this body has in body charging, but ill look into it..because this is some real BS. Teh internal clock battery fail is not user serviceable.

PS- Telling people about refurbs when it comes to availability...cmon. It's blatantly ignoring the main point, and it's just plain d*mb.

dan the man p said:

I saw this coming, though I wouldn't have guessed so soon. That's why I sold off my gear this summer. I managed to get pretty good value through eBay. It's sad, but I'm really happy with my new system. The options for M users are to either keep using your gear until it breaks or move on to something else.

Click to expand...

Not sure its wrong to say that there is no other small system "something else".

I have 3, so i'm planning to use until the wheels fall off. + that SIGMA, not CANON 30 1.4...thats just a gem. it's working fantastic with the m62 especially. just keep it stable or shoot high shutter speeds.

Also, thinking about moving on to r10 or z30? Well, LOLOLOL....they are both HUGE in comparison. (go handle for yourself). RFS lenses is a complete shameful embarrassment, and besides the 40/f2 pancake, good luck finding a small ultra wide 11-22 on nikon Z.

The truth is, there isnt another camera line in the class of the M. And as ignored as it was,it has a stellar lens lineup compared to its very weak/non existent competition.

Im glad i bought extra, even with its issues. A m50ii will go a long way until theres a true replacement, if ever. I learned in the past, dont wait for your most valuable/useful body to disappear from the market..buy a backup. Use it or stash it, at least your needs will be covered years into the future.

EDWARD ARTISTE said:

Now my third one has the dreaded CLOCK RESET....every single time u swap battery. Every. Single time. Im not sure if this body has in body charging, but ill look into it..because this is some real BS. Teh internal clock battery fail is not user serviceable.

Click to expand...

What's the story with this? After reading this, I took the battery out of my new (refurbished) m6 ii, waited a few seconds, and put it back in. Date and time reset!

It doesn't appear that any other settings have reset -- that I can tell.

I just received the camera from canon this week. Should I be notifying Canon, and sending the camera back? Or is this just "a thing" I have to deal with?

EDWARD ARTISTE said:

m100 said:

Feigerou said:

Saw the couple of rumor updates lately -

1. The M200 is discontinued, and the M50ii body only kit is discontinued too
2. The Canon R6ii and RF 135mm specs and pricing for release soon

https://www.canonrumors.com/usd-pri...as-leaked-ahead-of-the-imminent-announcement/

And all I can think is... Seriously, Canon?!? I'm sure all that R gear is fantastic, but it's just so stupidly expensive. They're not remotely close to replacing the M system with R. Both the R6ii and RF 135mm, by themselves, are more expensive then my entire M kit - which includes some fabulous glass.

I've been toying around with the idea of getting a refurbished M6ii before they're gone, but then being stuck without an upgrade path has held me back. That's probably just fine because this makes it pretty clear that R is going to stay way out of my price range. The "cheap" R lenses I'd go for would be the 35mm and 85mm but those are still 2-3 times the cost of the M equivalents...

Unless Canon comes to its senses - brings the best M lenses to RF-S, and opens up to third party lenses - it's looking more and more like I'll just hang on to my M gear as long as I can and then will bail to another system when I really need some upgrade or something breaks down.

Click to expand...

Right now you can get a refurbished M6II from Canon USA for $549.

https://www.usa.canon.com/shop/p/refurbished-eos-m6-mark-ii-body-silver

Click to expand...

You sure can. You wont be happy to know that they likely didnt fix anything on the refurbs- because they never did. There's no parts, they have always swapped them (as per canon rep, 2021)

Now my third one has the dreaded CLOCK RESET....every single time u swap battery. Every. Single time. Im not sure if this body has in body charging, but ill look into it..because this is some real BS. Teh internal clock battery fail is not user serviceable.

PS- Telling people about refurbs when it comes to availability...cmon. It's blatantly ignoring the main point, and it's just plain d*mb.

Click to expand...

Canon USA has sent me several refurbished camera bodies and no problems yet.

Hope I get a good M6II, If not I will send it back.

Having to deal with SS, Medicaid, State of Florida and CVS has made me ready for anything though !

State of Florida will leave me on hold for hours then hang up.

Post covid world is so broke down !

--
Dr. says listen to this every morning.

ihgold2 said:

EDWARD ARTISTE said:

Now my third one has the dreaded CLOCK RESET....every single time u swap battery. Every. Single time. Im not sure if this body has in body charging, but ill look into it..because this is some real BS. Teh internal clock battery fail is not user serviceable.

Click to expand...

What's the story with this? After reading this, I took the battery out of my new (refurbished) m6 ii, waited a few seconds, and put it back in. Date and time reset!

It doesn't appear that any other settings have reset -- that I can tell.

I just received the camera from canon this week. Should I be notifying Canon, and sending the camera back? Or is this just "a thing" I have to deal with?

Click to expand...

I just found the other threads discussing this issue. Is the problem limited to the date and time, or are other issues likely to arise related to this? Honestly, I can deal with resetting the date and time after charging the battery, but as the camera is new (at least to me) I'd like to start with the best copy possible.

I've emailed Canon support, but it's Friday evening -- at least here -- so I don't expect to hear anything for a while.

ihgold2 said:

EDWARD ARTISTE said:

Now my third one has the dreaded CLOCK RESET....every single time u swap battery. Every. Single time. Im not sure if this body has in body charging, but ill look into it..because this is some real BS. Teh internal clock battery fail is not user serviceable.

Click to expand...

What's the story with this? After reading this, I took the battery out of my new (refurbished) m6 ii, waited a few seconds, and put it back in. Date and time reset!

It doesn't appear that any other settings have reset -- that I can tell.

I just received the camera from canon this week. Should I be notifying Canon, and sending the camera back? Or is this just "a thing" I have to deal with?

Click to expand...

Is your's new? Still in warranty?

It is an internal battery failing, and i remember reading a while back that the battery is in a place in the body that is not user serviceable. Canon probably used some extra cheap battery. Not sure what they are saying nowadays, but i was told by canon repair that...well they don't repair these - they just swap them.

It's a bit of Russian routlette with these unfortunately. It would be nice if they could pop it open and replace the battery / issue, but canon also said they dont carry parts for them.

If anything has changed, ill be happy to send mine in. But if its a swap, no thanks. I'm just happy this one focuses properly.