Regrets (or not) on jumping ship from Olympus M4/3

Many of the people who say m43 is smaller and lighter go on to recommend the E-M1 or O-M1, neither of which are much if at all smaller and lighter than many FF cameras.
When people say "M43 is smaller and lighter" it's a comment about the combination of body and lenses, not just the body.
M43 lenses tend to be smaller and lighter because they tend to be slower - they gather less light / can't do as shallow DOF. That's fine if you don't want a fast lens. If you do, the size weight advantage tends to disappear. Also, there are slow FF lenses.
Also, it's just cherry-picking when you say "than many FF cameras" because there are certainly more FF cameras larger and heavier than the EM-1 or OM1
So? There's a wide range of choices.
Compare a Nikon Z7 and 24-200 to an O-M1 and 12-100.
Again you're cherry-picking. Exceptions don't make the rules. Do the same with my 300/4 Olympus lens... as that 24-200 has no where near the same resolution as the 12-100, the 24-200 is a compromise because it's the only Z lens that matches the focal length of the Olympus lens.
I can't immediately find a 600/8 FF lens, but Nikon makes a 500/5.6 (shorter but faster) that's about the same weight as the Olympus. Put it on a higher resolution FF body, crop a bit and you can get more light, shallower DOF and the same or better resolution.

I addressed the resolution point in the part of my post you didn't quote. Bobn2 has also addressed it.
When someone says that M43 is smaller and lighter than FF, there are vastly more examples that prove this right than wrong.

But overall your statements have some ring of truth, mirrorless has helped tremendously reduce the size of FF, but increasing size and weight by 30-50% going from M43 to a mirroless FF is still a big jump and for many of us starts creating the "do I really need this lens on this hike or can I make do without it?"
 
Dave. I too have been happily living with the 2013 OM-D EM1. I recently added the 12-100 F4 lens. I am an amateur so this is a hobby. I do lust for the new OM1 which is much more capable than what I have.

I don't question the IQ of bigger sensors.

The question you should also ask yourself, what do you do with the photos you take? Post them on Social Media? Share them with friends & family, Print some (how big?)? I print my own gorgeous 13"x19" photos and sold a few online? View them on a monitor or 4K TV?

....do you really need a 40, 60mp APS/FF system? and the associated additional $$$$ you'll need.

If you like your lenses, you can always pick up a used EM1 MKIII for $700-$1000 on eBay and see if that gets you to where you check off most of your current wishes. Better ISO, faster focus tracking, more FPS, subject tracking, full articulating display, etc. etc.
 
Many of the people who say m43 is smaller and lighter go on to recommend the E-M1 or O-M1, neither of which are much if at all smaller and lighter than many FF cameras.
When people say "M43 is smaller and lighter" it's a comment about the combination of body and lenses, not just the body.
M43 lenses tend to be smaller and lighter because they tend to be slower - they gather less light / can't do as shallow DOF. That's fine if you don't want a fast lens. If you do, the size weight advantage tends to disappear. Also, there are slow FF lenses.
Also, it's just cherry-picking when you say "than many FF cameras" because there are certainly more FF cameras larger and heavier than the EM-1 or OM1
So? There's a wide range of choices.
Compare a Nikon Z7 and 24-200 to an O-M1 and 12-100.
Again you're cherry-picking. Exceptions don't make the rules. Do the same with my 300/4 Olympus lens... as that 24-200 has no where near the same resolution as the 12-100, the 24-200 is a compromise because it's the only Z lens that matches the focal length of the Olympus lens.
I can't immediately find a 600/8 FF lens, but Nikon makes a 500/5.6 (shorter but faster) that's about the same weight as the Olympus. Put it on a higher resolution FF body, crop a bit and you can get more light, shallower DOF and the same or better resolution.

I addressed the resolution point in the part of my post you didn't quote. Bobn2 has also addressed it.
When someone says that M43 is smaller and lighter than FF, there are vastly more examples that prove this right than wrong.

But overall your statements have some ring of truth, mirrorless has helped tremendously reduce the size of FF, but increasing size and weight by 30-50% going from M43 to a mirroless FF is still a big jump and for many of us starts creating the "do I really need this lens on this hike or can I make do without it?"
Dear richardd,

Something to consider, the Olympus 300mmf4 is a 600mm f4 on a M4/3 body. There is no f-stop change. Add a 1.4 TC and it becomes an 840mm f5.6 on an M4/3 body. It costs the same as the Nikon 500mm WITH the Olympus 1.4 TC included.

If you use a TC on that 500mm f5.6 Nikon and FF camera and you have a 700mm f8. The lenses weigh the same, 3.25 pounds for the Olympus to 3.2 pounds for the Nikon.

As a side note, the Nikon 600m f4 weighs over 8 pounds. And it costs more than a complete Olympus system.

Seems like Olympus wins here.

We all like what we like, and we hopefully all use what we prefer to use. But we need to be fair when comparing size and cost.

Regards,

Tim Murphy :-)
 
The question you should also ask yourself, what do you do with the photos you take? Post them on Social Media? Share them with friends & family, Print some (how big?)? I print my own gorgeous 13"x19" photos and sold a few online? View them on a monitor or 4K TV?

....do you really need a 40, 60mp APS/FF system? and the associated additional $$$$ you'll need.
If everyone actually did this there would be no dedicated cameras ever sold again, the cell phone camera would be all people would need.
 
No, No, No, Mike ….Let’s not go down the phone vs camera discussion / debate.
lol. It's not really the phone debate, it's the gear nerd debate, do you really need more than 12mp debate. 90% of things to do with hobbies aren't about what we need, but what we want.

--
Thanks,
Mike
https://www.travel-curious.com
 
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No, No, No, Mike ….Let’s not go down the phone vs camera discussion / debate.
lol. It's not really the phone debate, it's the gear nerd debate, do you really need more than 12mp debate. 90% of things to do with hobbies aren't about what we need, but what we want.
Dear mfinley,

Ain't that the truth! Spending money makes the economy expand, never mind that it slims your wallet!

Regards,

Tim Murphy
 
Dear richardd,

Something to consider, the Olympus 300mmf4 is a 600mm f4 on a M4/3 body.
No, it stays a 300mm f/4 on an mFT body, because that is what it is.
There is no f-stop change.
Nor is there a focal length change.
Add a 1.4 TC and it becomes an 840mm f5.6 on an M4/3 body.
No, it becomes a 480mm f/5.6, because that is what it is once the TC is attached. Neither the focal length nor the f-number changes just by putting it on another body. What does change is the effect of both the focal length and f-number, so when you put a 300mm f/4 lens on an mFT body it behaves like a 600mm f/8 lens would on a FF body, with respect to everything except exposure, simply because exposure is tied to the actual f-number.

--
Is it always wrong
for one to have the hots for
Comrade Kim Yo Jong?
 
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Dear richardd,

Something to consider, the Olympus 300mmf4 is a 600mm f4 on a M4/3 body.
No, it stays a 300mm f/4 on an mFT body, because that is what it is.
There is no f-stop change.
Nor is there a focal length change.
Add a 1.4 TC and it becomes an 840mm f5.6 on an M4/3 body.
No, it becomes a 480mm f/5.6, because that is what it is once the TC is attached. Neither the focal length nor the f-number changes just by putting it on another body. What does change is the effect of both the focal length and f-number, so when you put a 300mm f/4 lens on an mFT body it behaves like a 600mm f/8 lens would on a FF body, with respect to everything except exposure, simply because exposure is tied to the actual f-number.
Yes.

That's also why Tim's "As a side note, the Nikon 600m f4 weighs over 8 pounds" (or even 600mm f/4) is not an appropriate comparison lens for the Oly 300/4.
 
Dear richardd,

Something to consider, the Olympus 300mmf4 is a 600mm f4 on a M4/3 body.
No, it stays a 300mm f/4 on an mFT body, because that is what it is.
There is no f-stop change.
Nor is there a focal length change.
Add a 1.4 TC and it becomes an 840mm f5.6 on an M4/3 body.
No, it becomes a 480mm f/5.6, because that is what it is once the TC is attached. Neither the focal length nor the f-number changes just by putting it on another body. What does change is the effect of both the focal length and f-number, so when you put a 300mm f/4 lens on an mFT body it behaves like a 600mm f/8 lens would on a FF body, with respect to everything except exposure, simply because exposure is tied to the actual f-number.
Yes.

That's also why Tim's "As a side note, the Nikon 600m f4 weighs over 8 pounds" (or even 600mm f/4) is not an appropriate comparison lens for the Oly 300/4.
Yes. A 600mm f/4 lens has an aperture of 150mm (6 inches). That means that it is gathering the light that comes from a 4.13 degree angle of view through a hole with an area of 17,671 sq. mm. A 300mm f/4 on a mFT camera is collecting light from the same 4.13 angle of view through a hole with an area of 4418 sq. mm. However you look at it, that's one quarter of the light through the lens and onto the sensor.

It's all those six-inch slabs of high quality optical glass that makes the lens so heavy and expensive. The 300/4 ends up with less than one quarter of the glass, so it should be one-quarter of the price and surprise, surprise, it is.
 
You've already seen the OM-1 reviews, it's very much up there with the best from Canon and Sony.
Literally from DPReview's own review:
Although the individual parts of the AF system work well, it's only fair to point out that the system as a whole isn't as slick and simple as the latest ones from Canon, Sony or Nikon. Face/Eye detection, for instance, doesn't use your chosen AF point to guide it when selecting a subject: the camera will decide what to focus on and Face/Eye detection will over-ride any non-human subject you might have wanted to focus on. You need to tap on the screen or assign a button as 'Face Selection' to pick your subject. Details like this mean you'll have to give more thought to which modes and features it's best to use, and when.

Disappointingly, some of the newer features such as subject recognition, face detection and focus limiter can't be assigned to the two-position lever on the back of the camera, meaning you'll have to futz around configuring custom modes, rather than be able to use the switch to jump between AF setups.

None of this is especially onerous but does make the camera feel a little unfinished, compared with the 'select a focus area and all the camera's cleverness will be applied to that area as needed' systems we're beginning to see.
Also, the tracking is unchanged, when it is well behind other companies.
The basic C-AF + Tracking system, that follows non-recognized subjects around the scene, hasn't been updated so we're not expecting much improvement in that regard, but C-AF + Tracking can be combined with Subject Detection AF as a way of selecting which detected subject you want to focus on.
A key benefit of using "the best from Canon and Sony" is that you can track anything intuitively and tenaciously.

And of course this isn't even factoring in sensor size for artistic expression with depth of field or for light gathering.
 
Dear richardd,

Something to consider, the Olympus 300mmf4 is a 600mm f4 on a M4/3 body. There is no f-stop change. Add a 1.4 TC and it becomes an 840mm f5.6 on an M4/3 body. It costs the same as the Nikon 500mm WITH the Olympus 1.4 TC included.

If you use a TC on that 500mm f5.6 Nikon and FF camera and you have a 700mm f8. The lenses weigh the same, 3.25 pounds for the Olympus to 3.2 pounds for the Nikon.

As a side note, the Nikon 600m f4 weighs over 8 pounds. And it costs more than a complete Olympus system.

Seems like Olympus wins here.

We all like what we like, and we hopefully all use what we prefer to use. But we need to be fair when comparing size and cost.

Regards,

Tim Murphy :-)
It's a 300mm F4 that takes pictures like a 600mm F8 on FF. Toss on a 1.4TC and you're at 840mm F11.2.

If you want to go that route, get one of those cheap Canon F11 800mm lenses and be done with it. It's lighter and less than a third of the price of the Olympus option, while offering you greater room to grow with bodies and lenses.

High-end (read: expensive) M43 only looks like a good choice if you're stubborn and ignore math.
 
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Thank you, Lucio!

I'm more than happy with my Olympus gear in most of the cases. BUT... say, the fast action shooting is a pain. I want to make sure the E-M1 III or OM-1 solve these issues. I'm willing to invest even in faster lens for that, but I want to be sure in the IQ of the body.

I seldom print, but I feel I will start to print more. My stationary images are more than OK to be printed. But it's mostly social media posting.
 
We all have our limits. I use several cameras with sensors smaller than M4/3. The majority of the photos I take are with my smaller sensor cameras. My apsc cameras are for specific things, and don't leave the house unless headed to one of those specific endeavors.
 
Brent, I disagree here. 300 f4 (m4/3) is 600 f8 ONLY in terms of DOF. In terms of stops/light gathering it's still 600 f4. It's an axiom.
In terms of light gathering (total light on sensor) it's the same as 600/8 on a FF. This is important for noise, which is a function of total light (and scene luminescence).

Axiom?
 
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Brent, I disagree here. 300 f4 (m4/3) is 600 f8 ONLY in terms of DOF.
And also in terms of diffraction blur and light gathering.
In terms of stops/light gathering it's still 600 f4. It's an axiom.
Not an axiom but an error. But first, you do need to define what you mean by 'light gathering'. If you mean 'the amount of luminous energy 'gathered' from the scene being photographed and projected onto the sensor', then it's very clear that the larger the aperture (size of the entrance pupil) then the larger its light gathering.

A 'stop' is just a ratio of two. You presumably mean 'f-number'. That's easier to understand if you write it properly as 'f/4'. This is a formula, where 'f' represents the focal length and '/' represents division. Thus when you say 'the aperture is f/4' what you're saying is 'the aperture is the focal length divided by four'. This for a 300mm f/4 lens 'f' is 300mm and the aperture is 300/4 = 75mm, whilst for a 600mm f/4 lens the aperture is 600/4 = 150mm.

So, to demonstrate. If you put a 300/4 lens on a mFT camera and point it at a scene, all the light from that scene that goes through the 75mm aperture gets focussed onto the sensor. Now you put a 600/4 lens on a FF camera and point it at exactly the same scene. It sees the same amount of the scene that the 300/4 does, because the angle of view is the same. All of the light from the scene that goes through the 150mm aperture is focussed on the sensor. That's four times the amount of light.
 
It's a 300mm F4 that takes pictures like a 600mm F8 on FF. Toss on a 1.4TC and you're at 840mm F11.2.

If you want to go that route, get one of those cheap Canon F11 800mm lenses and be done with it. It's lighter and less than a third of the price of the Olympus option, while offering you greater room to grow with bodies and lenses.

High-end (read: expensive) M43 only looks like a good choice if you're stubborn and ignore math.
Silly comment. Based on a very strange criteria of logic of cheaper lens = identical results and give you room to buy something else? What the heck is that about? First off it's not identical results, you can start there.
 
It's a 300mm F4 that takes pictures like a 600mm F8 on FF. Toss on a 1.4TC and you're at 840mm F11.2.

If you want to go that route, get one of those cheap Canon F11 800mm lenses and be done with it. It's lighter and less than a third of the price of the Olympus option, while offering you greater room to grow with bodies and lenses.

High-end (read: expensive) M43 only looks like a good choice if you're stubborn and ignore math.
Silly comment. Based on a very strange criteria of logic of cheaper lens = identical results
The 'logic' in place here has been that the cheaper Olympus 300/4 produces identical results to the much more expensive Nikon, Canon and Sony 600/4 lenses. It clearly doesn't. On the other hand it's very likely indeed that the Canon 800/11 will produce better results on a Canon R camera than the Olympus 300 f/4 with a 1.4x TC will on an Olympus camera. For a start, the Canon lens is cheap for a whole range of reasons other than optical. It doesn't have an aperture diaphragm, for instance, and it's pretty much all plastic, but that hasn't a lot to do with the optical performance. The ePHOTOzine review of the Canon shows it to yield just shy of 3000 lw/ph at it's only stop of f/11. The same reviewers review of the Olympus 300/4 shows that at f/4 it gives about 2750 lw/ph, and that will be reduced by the TC. So I think that it's clear that the results, if not identical, will give the advantage to the Canon, cheap though it is.

The new Nikon Z 800/6.3 is only about twice as expensive as the Olympus, and that gives an extra 1000 lw/ph, according to this reviewer . Its peak is at f/8 and it is already diffraction limited at f/11, giving just over 3500 lw/ph.

--
Is it always wrong
for one to have the hots for
Comrade Kim Yo Jong?
 
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It's a 300mm F4 that takes pictures like a 600mm F8 on FF. Toss on a 1.4TC and you're at 840mm F11.2.

If you want to go that route, get one of those cheap Canon F11 800mm lenses and be done with it. It's lighter and less than a third of the price of the Olympus option, while offering you greater room to grow with bodies and lenses.

High-end (read: expensive) M43 only looks like a good choice if you're stubborn and ignore math.
Silly comment. Based on a very strange criteria of logic of cheaper lens = identical results
The 'logic' in place here has been that the cheaper Olympus 300/4 produces identical results to the much more expensive Nikon, Canon and Sony 600/4 lenses. It clearly doesn't. On the other hand it's very likely indeed that the Canon 800/11 will produce better results on a Canon R camera than the Olympus 300 f/4 with a 1.4x TC will on an Olympus camera. For a start, the Canon lens is cheap for a whole range of reasons other than optical. It doesn't have an aperture diaphragm, for instance, and it's pretty much all plastic, but that hasn't a lot to do with the optical performance. The ePHOTOzine review of the Canon shows it to yield just shy of 3000 lw/ph at it's only stop of f/11. The same reviewers review of the Olympus 300/4 shows that at f/4 it gives about 2750 lw/ph, and that will be reduced by the TC. So I think that it's clear that the results, if not identical, will give the advantage to the Canon, cheap though it is.

The new Nikon Z 800/6.3 is only about twice as expensive as the Olympus, and that gives an extra 1000 lw/ph, according to this reviewer . Its peak is at f/8 and it is already diffraction limited at f/11, giving just over 3500 lw/ph.
Interesting. What about color fringing, and chromatic aberrations? Flare, etc..

It would be nice to see side by side comparisons like the DPR studio scene comparison tool
 

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