New Sigma alternative to kit lens

Jared Hunter · Nov 12, 2003

18-50mm f2.5-5.6
http://www.ephotozine.com/news/fullnews.cfm?NewsID=1409

I wonder if there is any advantage when it comes to usage or image quality. For one, it's internal focusing so the end of the barrel doesn't rotate like the kit lens making it lot easier to use a polarizer and gradient filters.

marius100281 · Nov 12, 2003

I was really exciting thinking it was gonna be f/2.5 at the wide end, but the article actually claims f/3.5.

Seems interesting, though. (Also of note: It's from their DC line: they claim vignetting will occur with sensors larger than APS-C size.)

-marius

Jared Hunter said:
18-50mm f2.5-5.6
http://www.ephotozine.com/news/fullnews.cfm?NewsID=1409

I wonder if there is any advantage when it comes to usage or image
quality. For one, it's internal focusing so the end of the barrel
doesn't rotate like the kit lens making it lot easier to use a
polarizer and gradient filters.

--
-marius
Visit the EOS-300D FAQ: http://www.marius.org/eos300dfaq.php
Visit the S602Z FAQ: http://www.marius.org/fuji602faq.php

Jared Hunter · Nov 12, 2003

marius said:
I was really exciting thinking it was gonna be f/2.5 at the wide
end, but the article actually claims f/3.5.

Sorry, typo on my part.

marius100281 said:
Seems interesting, though. (Also of note: It's from their DC line:
they claim vignetting will occur with sensors larger than APS-C
size.)

I think we have to be careful about these type of lens choices. On the one hand, these lenses are cheaper because the image circle is smaller and therefore attractive from an economic perspective. However, for many, the point of an SLR was to be able to upgrade to newer bodies while retaining the lenses. Once full-frame becomes affordable, you may end up having to upgrade all your lenses again if EF-S doesn't take off.

marius100281 said:
-marius

Jared Hunter said:

18-50mm f2.5-5.6
http://www.ephotozine.com/news/fullnews.cfm?NewsID=1409

I wonder if there is any advantage when it comes to usage or image
quality. For one, it's internal focusing so the end of the barrel
doesn't rotate like the kit lens making it lot easier to use a
polarizer and gradient filters.

Click to expand...

--
-marius
Visit the EOS-300D FAQ: http://www.marius.org/eos300dfaq.php
Visit the S602Z FAQ: http://www.marius.org/fuji602faq.php

EOS.user · Nov 12, 2003

Interesting...

This is the first time I heard about this lens... It's not even on sigma's website...

Jared Hunter said:
18-50mm f2.5-5.6
http://www.ephotozine.com/news/fullnews.cfm?NewsID=1409

I wonder if there is any advantage when it comes to usage or image
quality. For one, it's internal focusing so the end of the barrel
doesn't rotate like the kit lens making it lot easier to use a
polarizer and gradient filters.

jursy · Nov 12, 2003

Jared Hunter said:
18-50mm f2.5-5.6
http://www.ephotozine.com/news/fullnews.cfm?NewsID=1409

I wonder if there is any advantage when it comes to usage or image
quality. For one, it's internal focusing so the end of the barrel
doesn't rotate like the kit lens making it lot easier to use a
polarizer and gradient filters.

If you want to pay more, than I am sure you can beat the kit lens. The real question is, try to beat $100 for a lens. I think the image quality from the kit lens it great, I do not expect it to beat a $400 and up lens. So why does any one else?

EOS.user · Nov 13, 2003

This one should be less than $100.

jursy said:
Jared Hunter said:

18-50mm f2.5-5.6
http://www.ephotozine.com/news/fullnews.cfm?NewsID=1409

I wonder if there is any advantage when it comes to usage or image
quality. For one, it's internal focusing so the end of the barrel
doesn't rotate like the kit lens making it lot easier to use a
polarizer and gradient filters.

Click to expand...

If you want to pay more, than I am sure you can beat the kit lens.
The real question is, try to beat $100 for a lens. I think the
image quality from the kit lens it great, I do not expect it to
beat a $400 and up lens. So why does any one else?

jursy · Nov 13, 2003

EOS.user said:
This one should be less than $100.

What about the quailty. Don't want to save five to ten dollars, just to lose image quailty. Even canons, for lack of better terms cheaper lens do really good shots. Not always so with third party lens. I have no vinigeting with the kit lens. Only have problem with lens hood when I shoot it at 18mm,in which case just don't use the lens hood at that mm. No vinigetting. It is amazing how the kit lens is talked about so much, I wonder if anybody picks apart one of the $1000 lens as much? You pay more for them, maybe we should expect more. I know I kind of got off subject, but all this time on the kit lens is silly. It is a affordable, basic starters lens, nothing more. Just something to get you started off.

EOS.user said:
jursy said:

Jared Hunter said:

18-50mm f2.5-5.6
http://www.ephotozine.com/news/fullnews.cfm?NewsID=1409

I wonder if there is any advantage when it comes to usage or image
quality. For one, it's internal focusing so the end of the barrel
doesn't rotate like the kit lens making it lot easier to use a
polarizer and gradient filters.

Click to expand...

If you want to pay more, than I am sure you can beat the kit lens.
The real question is, try to beat $100 for a lens. I think the
image quality from the kit lens it great, I do not expect it to
beat a $400 and up lens. So why does any one else?

Click to expand...

Locust · Nov 13, 2003

Jared Hunter said:
I think we have to be careful about these type of lens choices. On
the one hand, these lenses are cheaper because the image circle is
smaller and therefore attractive from an economic perspective.
However, for many, the point of an SLR was to be able to upgrade to
newer bodies while retaining the lenses.

but still, I was worried about my kit lens - it's cheap, it's good for the money, but it's plastic and can't be bought spearately. So say it breaks...

Sigma just could be a replacement for the cheap wide angle.

Anyway I hope to soon put my kit lens back to the box and keep it for indoors only, I'll get myself one of those (PLEASE, don't shoot!) hyperzooms to carry outdoors. I don't expect having enough money to build a proper lens collection within few months and I still want to take some photos, so I think either Sigma 28-200 or Tokina 24-200 would do the job reasonably good till I get a proper lens

My heart tells me to get a 50mm prime first, but on 300D it would have FOV like "film" 85, good for portraits and not much more... Is there anything prime, cheap and good around 35mm?

--
Marek
300D pics: http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uyh0/eos/
SLR == Some Learning Required

EOS.user · Nov 13, 2003

jursy said:
What about the quailty. Don't want to save five to ten dollars,
just to lose image quailty.

Yep.

jursy said:
I have no vinigeting with the kit lens. Only have problem
with lens hood when I shoot it at 18mm,in which case just don't use
the lens hood at that mm. No vinigetting.

You shouldn't expect any with 1.6x.

jursy said:
It is amazing how the
kit lens is talked about so much, I wonder if anybody picks apart
one of the $1000 lens as much? You pay more for them, maybe we
should expect more. I know I kind of got off subject, but all this
time on the kit lens is silly. It is a affordable, basic starters
lens, nothing more. Just something to get you started off.

Some people are just getting into SLRs...

EOS.user · Nov 13, 2003

Not as cheap as 50/1.8 but...

28/2.8 and 35/2 are great lenses.

Locust said:
Jared Hunter said:

I think we have to be careful about these type of lens choices. On
the one hand, these lenses are cheaper because the image circle is
smaller and therefore attractive from an economic perspective.
However, for many, the point of an SLR was to be able to upgrade to
newer bodies while retaining the lenses.

Click to expand...

but still, I was worried about my kit lens - it's cheap, it's good
for the money, but it's plastic and can't be bought spearately. So
say it breaks...

Sigma just could be a replacement for the cheap wide angle.

Anyway I hope to soon put my kit lens back to the box and keep it
for indoors only, I'll get myself one of those (PLEASE, don't
shoot!) hyperzooms to carry outdoors. I don't expect having enough
money to build a proper lens collection within few months and I
still want to take some photos, so I think either Sigma 28-200 or
Tokina 24-200 would do the job reasonably good till I get a proper
lens

My heart tells me to get a 50mm prime first, but on 300D it would
have FOV like "film" 85, good for portraits and not much more... Is
there anything prime, cheap and good around 35mm?

--
Marek
300D pics: http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uyh0/eos/
SLR == Some Learning Required

Locust · Nov 13, 2003

EOS.user said:
Not as cheap as 50/1.8 but...

28/2.8 and 35/2 are great lenses.

Bot around 250 - 300 euro,...
that's roughly the same as one of the aforementioned zooms...

I think I'll have to live with lower quality of a zoom for a moment and maybe get the 50mm cheap jewel after christmas

--
Marek
300D pics: http://www.stud.uni-karlsruhe.de/~uyh0/eos/
SLR == Some Learning Required

Chirebel · Nov 13, 2003

What it does have for sure over the kit lens, is the DOF scale!!! Out of the three lenses I have, only the sigma 70-300 has it (50 f1.8 mkII and kit lens don't).

Why is that important, most of you know better than I do. But for those that do not, if you want to take a photo of a landscape and include some foreground to be in focus starting from 5 feet away (unless you can make use of the DOF preview button which I can't seem be able to put to good use) you don't really know where to place the focus. Maybe with experience you may become a good estimator, but DOF scale would be very handy. Focusing for infinity would not produce the desired result.

Also , wouldn't it be cool, if the cameras included DOF calculators built in? Like the one's you find on the web. Focus on something, and it tells you the DOF. It's should be a standard feature.

Jared Hunter said:
18-50mm f2.5-5.6
http://www.ephotozine.com/news/fullnews.cfm?NewsID=1409

I wonder if there is any advantage when it comes to usage or image
quality. For one, it's internal focusing so the end of the barrel
doesn't rotate like the kit lens making it lot easier to use a
polarizer and gradient filters.

Tom K.182709 · Nov 13, 2003

As Nikon doesn't have an entry level 28-80 [equiv] zoom for dSLR users, this is big news for Nikon shooters. You could get a D100, and get started with this Sigma, rather than the $1,500+ new the Nikon zoom [that is now delayed].

Hard to imagine any D300 shooter opting out of the kit lens for a Sigma knock-off

David Goldwasser · Nov 13, 2003

My Sigma 15mm fisheye has this. Their are pairs of aperture numbers that you can look and see what distances are in focus. Probably tough to do this on zoom lens vs fixed.

By the way the Sigma 15mm fisheye even has IR focus adjustment indicator. But it will only take rear filter which would not seem easy to take in and out in the field.

Also you may want to check out the DEP mode on the D300. the concept is it will find subjects at different distances from camera and will try to pick aperture so both are in focus. I have not really messed with it too much.

ChiRebel said:
Also , wouldn't it be cool, if the cameras included DOF calculators
built in? Like the one's you find on the web. Focus on something,
and it tells you the DOF. It's should be a standard feature.

--
David Goldwasser
http://www.inertia-llc.com

Chirebel · Nov 13, 2003

Yup,

The thing I was thinking the calculator could be precise down to tenths of inches when you are doing macro, or really close up wide open with 50 f1.8. The DOF scale is not that precise in these situations, it just says you have no depth of field.

I think I will do a test for A-DEP. I will compose a shot with some close foreground objects 5-10 feet away and also landscape background.

I wonder if it is smart enough to take such a shot. I think it might be able to pick a focus point on the ground, but will it know I want the whole scene and use a really small aperature.

Has any one tried this with good outcome? I have little confidence it will work. Or would the equivalent shot be just, put it in Av mode, set it to f22 and focus on the 5 foot object, is it that simple? Assuming you have the light for autofocus to work otherwise you are still out of luck without the scale.

David Goldwasser said:
By the way the Sigma 15mm fisheye even has IR focus adjustment
indicator. But it will only take rear filter which would not seem
easy to take in and out in the field.

Also you may want to check out the DEP mode on the D300. the
concept is it will find subjects at different distances from camera
and will try to pick aperture so both are in focus. I have not
really messed with it too much.

ChiRebel said:

Also , wouldn't it be cool, if the cameras included DOF calculators
built in? Like the one's you find on the web. Focus on something,
and it tells you the DOF. It's should be a standard feature.

Click to expand...

--
David Goldwasser
http://www.inertia-llc.com

Chirebel · Nov 13, 2003

Chirebel said:
Or would the equivalent shot be just, put it in Av
mode, set it to f22 and focus on the 5 foot object, is it that
simple?

I think I am wrong here. Focusing on the object 5 feet away is not the same as not the same as having the DOF start with 5 feet and end at infinity... So I would have to focus some unknown distance further away without a scale...

netop174840 · Nov 13, 2003

kit lens, good for the money true, but at the same time a somehow silly argument when compared to the camera price. To me the most appealing part of the kit lens is that it is lightweight and in this aspect fits the camera. The only problem is that the kit lens is compromising the camera.

Personally I just need one lens In the 18-50 aspect if buying the camera, so the new sigma looks interesting, looking forward to se how it will perform

jm

DRG · Nov 13, 2003

David Goldwasser said:
My Sigma 15mm fisheye has this. Their are pairs of aperture numbers
that you can look and see what distances are in focus. Probably
tough to do this on zoom lens vs fixed.

This used to be standard on manual focus zoom lenses. The scale is represented by lines that grow ever closer together along the barrel corresponding to different focal lengths.

David

Jared Hunter · Nov 14, 2003

I notice that the Canon 18-55 has 11 elements in 9 groups vs Sigma's 8 elements in 8 groups. How common is it for a lens with less elements to outperform one with more? My gut instinct is not likely.

Also noticed the Sigma has a one degree wider field of view at 18mm. (no big deal)

Jared Hunter said:
18-50mm f2.5-5.6
http://www.ephotozine.com/news/fullnews.cfm?NewsID=1409

I wonder if there is any advantage when it comes to usage or image
quality. For one, it's internal focusing so the end of the barrel
doesn't rotate like the kit lens making it lot easier to use a
polarizer and gradient filters.

David Goldwasser · Nov 14, 2003

Jared Hunter said:
I notice that the Canon 18-55 has 11 elements in 9 groups vs
Sigma's 8 elements in 8 groups. How common is it for a lens with
less elements to outperform one with more? My gut instinct is not
likely.

I just assume have as few pieces of glass or glass surfaces as possible assuming that the distortion can still be kept down, that is the trick.

Jared Hunter said:
Also noticed the Sigma has a one degree wider field of view at
18mm. (no big deal)

Its one mm, not one degree, and when you add the multiplier factor that gap gets bigger. 27.2mm vs 28.8mm equiv.

Jared Hunter said:
Jared Hunter said:

18-50mm f2.5-5.6
http://www.ephotozine.com/news/fullnews.cfm?NewsID=1409

I wonder if there is any advantage when it comes to usage or image
quality. For one, it's internal focusing so the end of the barrel
doesn't rotate like the kit lens making it lot easier to use a
polarizer and gradient filters.

Click to expand...

--
David Goldwasser
http://www.inertia-llc.com

New Sigma alternative to kit lens

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