Is the Oly 75mm rubbish at sport photography and/or distant subjects?

glassoholic · Aug 29, 2022

NiX82 said:
glassoholic said:

NiX82 said:

glassoholic said:

If you are comparing the 75 to say, the 40-150 2.8 Pro, yes, it struggles with CAF for fast moving action. But if you take a few extra shots, you should get enough keepers from it.

Click to expand...

Hey,

I was comparing it with the 12-100, the 20 f1.4, the 45 f1.2, the 60 and the 150-400.

I definitely assume the 75mm is on the slower end of this pack, if not the slowest, but as stated earlier, the hit rate I got from it (i) in combination with the OM-1, (ii) with distant subjects (whether mobile or immobile), is less than 5% (it could even be less than 2% quite frankly), whereas all other lens were absolutely fine.

This being said, I got great feedback and suggestions from other members of this forum, so I'm grateful for that, and I think we're making progress.

Click to expand...

I will test my 75 and OM-1 at longer distances. I just did an indoor stage show shoot, tough lighting conditions, with performers about half length composed and moving back and forth, and hit rate was about 90%... so about what I expected for that.

I have mentioned on the forum already that several of my lenses perform differently on the OM-1. Strange AF motor sounds and difficulty focusing (my Oly 17mm f1.8 especially), compared to all my other m43 bodies, and even surmised whether all or certainly some lenses might need FW updates to optimise them for the OM-1. There is definitely something odd going on.

Click to expand...

Good morning,

Thank you for sharing your experience. Was that in C-AF?

Because as (many) others had suggested in this conversation, I gave S-AF a go yesterday and it seemed to work absolutely fine.

Yes... CAF. Since the FW 3 update for the EM1.2 a few years ago and onwards (plus EM1X... EM1.3), CAF has become my main AF. The OM-1 has improved further on CAF, but as mentioned, makes many lenses perform differently. By the way, I noticed that my Panaleica 10-25 and 25-50 f1.7 lenses, on the OM-1, make a slight whirring/ buzzing sound in CAF that was never there before on other m43 bodies.

MEDISN · Aug 29, 2022

NiX82 said:
MEDISN said:

I tested my (one) copy of the 75/1.8 today in a 20 frame burst on the OM-1 and it kept up pretty well.
Not sure why the trouble with your copy. Maybe it needs to be checked out.

EDIT: I just read whumber’s post and I’m puzzled as to why the different outcome. I was not in SH mode. Maybe distance to subject plays a role??

Click to expand...

Hello!

Thanks for sharing your experience as well.

It obviously severely contradicts my findings, as well as those of @AlwaysLearning4, @adammaniam, @whumber and @Ahgre.

For the avoidance of doubt: was that burst shot with C-AF?

Camera FW 1.2

Lens FW 1.2

C-AF, "Cross" Pattern AF

C-AF Sensitivity +1

AF Limiter Off

AF Scanner On

AF Focus Adj Off

Face/Eye detect enabled

Electronic Shutter 15fps

Release Priority

I have placed the ORF's in a DropBox folder. I am hoping whumber can get to the bottom of it. The one odd thing I notice is that EXIF shows "Subject Distance" as 7.695m for EVERY shot in the sequence (21 in total).

NiX82 · Aug 29, 2022

MEDISN said:
NiX82 said:

MEDISN said:

I tested my (one) copy of the 75/1.8 today in a 20 frame burst on the OM-1 and it kept up pretty well.
Not sure why the trouble with your copy. Maybe it needs to be checked out.

EDIT: I just read whumber’s post and I’m puzzled as to why the different outcome. I was not in SH mode. Maybe distance to subject plays a role??

Click to expand...

Hello!

Thanks for sharing your experience as well.

It obviously severely contradicts my findings, as well as those of @AlwaysLearning4, @adammaniam, @whumber and @Ahgre.

For the avoidance of doubt: was that burst shot with C-AF?

Click to expand...

Camera FW 1.2

Lens FW 1.2

C-AF, "Cross" Pattern AF

C-AF Sensitivity +1

AF Limiter Off

AF Scanner On

AF Focus Adj Off

Face/Eye detect enabled

Electronic Shutter 15fps

Release Priority

I have placed the ORF's in a DropBox folder. I am hoping whumber can get to the bottom of it. The one odd thing I notice is that EXIF shows "Subject Distance" as 7.695m for EVERY shot in the sequence (21 in total).

Thanks, I'll give those settings a try as soon as i can.

Our respective settings differ on the following points: type of AF target, C-AF sensitivity, AF scanner, AF focus adjustment, release priority and burst shooting. Our settings differ quite a bit actually.

glassoholic · Aug 29, 2022

I just tested my 75 and OM-1 using CAF and at over about 10-15m (32-50 feet), it does not focus... well you see sharpish focus in the EVF and a fraction of a second later, you see it defocus further... result is a mess every time. SAF is perfect. (All tested on a stationary subject).

This after the indoor artificial lighting focus problem, strange AF motor noises (from previously quiet) lenses... what next?

OMDS need to get some testing done and FW updates delivered pronto.

NiX82 · Aug 29, 2022

glassoholic said:
I just tested my 75 and OM-1 using CAF and at over about 10-15m (32-50 feet), it does not focus... well you see sharpish focus in the EVF and a fraction of a second later, you see it defocus further... result is a mess every time. SAF is perfect. (All tested on a stationary subject).

This after the indoor artificial lighting focus problem, strange AF motor noises (from previously quiet) lenses... what next?

OMDS need to get some testing done and FW updates delivered pronto.

Ah, I made a little list with the users for whom it was working, and the users for whom is wasn't.

You, my friend, are changing from one column to the other. :-D

I intend to try out a different set of settings later today, but I don't expect much from it.

The distance is definitely a factor in my experience in any case.

glassoholic · Aug 29, 2022

NiX82 said:
glassoholic said:

I just tested my 75 and OM-1 using CAF and at over about 10-15m (32-50 feet), it does not focus... well you see sharpish focus in the EVF and a fraction of a second later, you see it defocus further... result is a mess every time. SAF is perfect. (All tested on a stationary subject).

This after the indoor artificial lighting focus problem, strange AF motor noises (from previously quiet) lenses... what next?

OMDS need to get some testing done and FW updates delivered pronto.

Click to expand...

Ah, I made a little list with the users for whom it was working, and the users for whom is wasn't.

You, my friend, are changing from one column to the other. :-D

I intend to try out a different set of settings later today, but I don't expect much from it.

The distance is definitely a factor in my experience in any case.

Wait until you see my next new thread/ post coming soon... I have tested all my lenses and results are interesting/ concerning. OMDS has some work to do.

glassoholic · Aug 29, 2022

glassoholic said:
NiX82 said:

glassoholic said:

I just tested my 75 and OM-1 using CAF and at over about 10-15m (32-50 feet), it does not focus... well you see sharpish focus in the EVF and a fraction of a second later, you see it defocus further... result is a mess every time. SAF is perfect. (All tested on a stationary subject).

This after the indoor artificial lighting focus problem, strange AF motor noises (from previously quiet) lenses... what next?

OMDS need to get some testing done and FW updates delivered pronto.

Click to expand...

Ah, I made a little list with the users for whom it was working, and the users for whom is wasn't.

You, my friend, are changing from one column to the other. :-D

I intend to try out a different set of settings later today, but I don't expect much from it.

The distance is definitely a factor in my experience in any case.

Click to expand...

Wait until you see my next new thread/ post coming soon... I have tested all my lenses and results are interesting/ concerning. OMDS has some work to do.

NiX82 · Aug 29, 2022

glassoholic said:
glassoholic said:

NiX82 said:

glassoholic said:

I just tested my 75 and OM-1 using CAF and at over about 10-15m (32-50 feet), it does not focus... well you see sharpish focus in the EVF and a fraction of a second later, you see it defocus further... result is a mess every time. SAF is perfect. (All tested on a stationary subject).

This after the indoor artificial lighting focus problem, strange AF motor noises (from previously quiet) lenses... what next?

OMDS need to get some testing done and FW updates delivered pronto.

Click to expand...

Ah, I made a little list with the users for whom it was working, and the users for whom is wasn't.

You, my friend, are changing from one column to the other. :-D

I intend to try out a different set of settings later today, but I don't expect much from it.

The distance is definitely a factor in my experience in any case.

Click to expand...

Wait until you see my next new thread/ post coming soon... I have tested all my lenses and results are interesting/ concerning. OMDS has some work to do.

Click to expand...

I will put this into a new post/ thread, but here are my results:

Problems with CAF and OM-1 at longer distances:
Oly 25mm f1.8
Oly 75mm f1.8
Oly 8 FE Pro f1.8
Oly 17mm 1.8

OK with CAF and OM-1 at longer distances:
Panaleica 9mm f1.7
Oly 12-100mm f4.0
Oly 60mm f2.8 Macro
Panasonic 42.5mm f1.7
Panaleica 100-400mm f4.0-6.3
Oly 40-150mm f2.8 Pro
Panaleica 10-25mm f1.7
Panaleica 25-50mm f1.7
Oly 300mm f4.0 Pro
Panaleica 200mm f2.8
Oly 14-42mm f3.5-5.6 EZ
Panasonic 30mm f2.8 Macro
Panasonic 14-140mm f3.5-5.6 mkii
Oly 12-40mm f2.8 Pro mki
Panaleica 15mm f1.7
Panaleica 8-18mm f2.8-4.0

As I used those lenses during the original tennis session that led to this conversation, with the same settings than the 75mm, I'm happy to say the Oly 45mm f1.2, the Oly 20mm f1.4 and the Oly 150-400mm seem to work just fine as well.

glassoholic · Aug 30, 2022

NiX82 said:
glassoholic said:

glassoholic said:

NiX82 said:

glassoholic said:

I just tested my 75 and OM-1 using CAF and at over about 10-15m (32-50 feet), it does not focus... well you see sharpish focus in the EVF and a fraction of a second later, you see it defocus further... result is a mess every time. SAF is perfect. (All tested on a stationary subject).

This after the indoor artificial lighting focus problem, strange AF motor noises (from previously quiet) lenses... what next?

OMDS need to get some testing done and FW updates delivered pronto.

Click to expand...

Ah, I made a little list with the users for whom it was working, and the users for whom is wasn't.

You, my friend, are changing from one column to the other. :-D

I intend to try out a different set of settings later today, but I don't expect much from it.

The distance is definitely a factor in my experience in any case.

Click to expand...

Wait until you see my next new thread/ post coming soon... I have tested all my lenses and results are interesting/ concerning. OMDS has some work to do.

Click to expand...

I will put this into a new post/ thread, but here are my results:

Problems with CAF and OM-1 at longer distances:
Oly 25mm f1.8
Oly 75mm f1.8
Oly 8 FE Pro f1.8
Oly 17mm 1.8

OK with CAF and OM-1 at longer distances:
Panaleica 9mm f1.7
Oly 12-100mm f4.0
Oly 60mm f2.8 Macro
Panasonic 42.5mm f1.7
Panaleica 100-400mm f4.0-6.3
Oly 40-150mm f2.8 Pro
Panaleica 10-25mm f1.7
Panaleica 25-50mm f1.7
Oly 300mm f4.0 Pro
Panaleica 200mm f2.8
Oly 14-42mm f3.5-5.6 EZ
Panasonic 30mm f2.8 Macro
Panasonic 14-140mm f3.5-5.6 mkii
Oly 12-40mm f2.8 Pro mki
Panaleica 15mm f1.7
Panaleica 8-18mm f2.8-4.0

Click to expand...

As I used those lenses during the original tennis session that led to this conversation, with the same settings than the 75mm, I'm happy to say the Oly 45mm f1.2, the Oly 20mm f1.4 and the Oly 150-400mm seem to work just fine as well.

I would suspect the Oly 12mm f2.0, as part of the other Premium Prime series (17,25,75 1.8) will have issues too... presuming the same type of focus motors. The Oly 45mm f1.8 will probably also be a problem then, although I'm not 100% sure it is part of the "Premium Prime" range. The 8mm FE 1.8 Pro was a surprise.

The 17mm 1.8 and 25mm 1.8 were the two lenses I had issues with AF in artificial lighting as well... they just happened to be two of the first lenses I tried out indoors... I should repeat with the 75mm f1.8 and Oly FE 8mm 1.8 Pro.

So far, I have also discovered the Panasonic 30mm f2.8 Macro makes dreadful grinding noises during AF on the OM-1. The Panaleica 1.7 zoom (both I think), in CAF, also make a spring like "boing" sound during CAF. None of the above has been the case with 6 other m43 bodies and CAF... or indoor lighting issues.

OMDS... we are beta testing for you... I hope you take note.

whumber · Aug 30, 2022

glassoholic said:
glassoholic said:

NiX82 said:

glassoholic said:

I just tested my 75 and OM-1 using CAF and at over about 10-15m (32-50 feet), it does not focus... well you see sharpish focus in the EVF and a fraction of a second later, you see it defocus further... result is a mess every time. SAF is perfect. (All tested on a stationary subject).

This after the indoor artificial lighting focus problem, strange AF motor noises (from previously quiet) lenses... what next?

OMDS need to get some testing done and FW updates delivered pronto.

Click to expand...

Ah, I made a little list with the users for whom it was working, and the users for whom is wasn't.

You, my friend, are changing from one column to the other. :-D

I intend to try out a different set of settings later today, but I don't expect much from it.

The distance is definitely a factor in my experience in any case.

Click to expand...

Wait until you see my next new thread/ post coming soon... I have tested all my lenses and results are interesting/ concerning. OMDS has some work to do.

Click to expand...

I will put this into a new post/ thread, but here are my results:

Problems with CAF and OM-1 at longer distances:
Oly 25mm f1.8
Oly 75mm f1.8
Oly 8 FE Pro f1.8
Oly 17mm 1.8

OK with CAF and OM-1 at longer distances:
Panaleica 9mm f1.7
Oly 12-100mm f4.0
Oly 60mm f2.8 Macro
Panasonic 42.5mm f1.7
Panaleica 100-400mm f4.0-6.3
Oly 40-150mm f2.8 Pro
Panaleica 10-25mm f1.7
Panaleica 25-50mm f1.7
Oly 300mm f4.0 Pro
Panaleica 200mm f2.8
Oly 14-42mm f3.5-5.6 EZ
Panasonic 30mm f2.8 Macro
Panasonic 14-140mm f3.5-5.6 mkii
Oly 12-40mm f2.8 Pro mki
Panaleica 15mm f1.7
Panaleica 8-18mm f2.8-4.0

glassoholic · Aug 30, 2022

whumber said:
glassoholic said:

glassoholic said:

NiX82 said:

glassoholic said:

I just tested my 75 and OM-1 using CAF and at over about 10-15m (32-50 feet), it does not focus... well you see sharpish focus in the EVF and a fraction of a second later, you see it defocus further... result is a mess every time. SAF is perfect. (All tested on a stationary subject).

This after the indoor artificial lighting focus problem, strange AF motor noises (from previously quiet) lenses... what next?

OMDS need to get some testing done and FW updates delivered pronto.

Click to expand...

Ah, I made a little list with the users for whom it was working, and the users for whom is wasn't.

You, my friend, are changing from one column to the other. :-D

I intend to try out a different set of settings later today, but I don't expect much from it.

The distance is definitely a factor in my experience in any case.

Click to expand...

Wait until you see my next new thread/ post coming soon... I have tested all my lenses and results are interesting/ concerning. OMDS has some work to do.

Click to expand...

I will put this into a new post/ thread, but here are my results:

Problems with CAF and OM-1 at longer distances:
Oly 25mm f1.8
Oly 75mm f1.8
Oly 8 FE Pro f1.8
Oly 17mm 1.8

OK with CAF and OM-1 at longer distances:
Panaleica 9mm f1.7
Oly 12-100mm f4.0
Oly 60mm f2.8 Macro
Panasonic 42.5mm f1.7
Panaleica 100-400mm f4.0-6.3
Oly 40-150mm f2.8 Pro
Panaleica 10-25mm f1.7
Panaleica 25-50mm f1.7
Oly 300mm f4.0 Pro
Panaleica 200mm f2.8
Oly 14-42mm f3.5-5.6 EZ
Panasonic 30mm f2.8 Macro
Panasonic 14-140mm f3.5-5.6 mkii
Oly 12-40mm f2.8 Pro mki
Panaleica 15mm f1.7
Panaleica 8-18mm f2.8-4.0

Click to expand...

Really living up to the name. That's some exhaustive testing!

Lol... "exhaustive" list, but testing was really quick. Daylight, find something static about 15-25m away, shoot twice with CAF and if it's sharp, it's good. If it's not sharp, shoot a couple times with SAF. If that's sharp, try each a couple more times with each to be sure.

The lenses I have listed above, I am perfectly happy with. I have tried almost all other alternatives, similar focal lengths, speeds, etc, sold and settled with these. I had most the f1.2/ 1.4 primes but sold them when I got the f1.7 zooms.

I have 3 kits... basically they are... general purpose covering everything but lighter of the options, sport/ birding and lightweight hiking/ out and about.

I also have a Voigtlander Super Nokton 29mm f0.8 for when something "different" is what I want.

The only lens I would want that I don't have, is the 150-400 Pro.

glassoholic · Aug 30, 2022

whumber said:
So I got a chance to go out and do some testing and...there's definitely a pretty major bug here. I took about 1600 shots with the dogs, who were more than happy to be test subjects, with just about every AF setting I could think of at the time and I don't think I got 3 frames that were actually in focus. It has nothing to do with AI subject tracking vs zone focus, or any other user controlled setting. Pretty clear that OM has not actually tested this lens body combination. So fear not NiX82, you're not crazy, this camera/lens combination is just completely broken in C-AF with the current firmware. As an aside I also discovered last light that starry sky AF with the PL 200 2.8 + 1.4x TC is also completely broken.

EDIT: Adding an example of a burst with this combo, I believe this one was with animal AI detect on but all the burst look more or less the same. Not sure how well the smaller size gif will indicate focus but not a single shot is actually sharp under the active AF point. Pretty much all severely backfocused to different degrees.

As I mentioned, my 200 2.8 is good with CAF and OM-1, but I never tested it with the 1.4x. Tomorrow will do... and your Starry AF is broken... oh boy... what next. I will try some Starry AF tests when possible with my lenses.

--
Addicted To Glass
M43 equivalence: "Twice the fun with half the weight"
"You are a long time dead" -
Credit to whoever said that first and my wife for saying it to me... Make the best you can of every day!

EZGritz · Aug 30, 2022

Works great for motorsports. The focal length is not long enough for distant subjects.

EZGritz · Aug 30, 2022

Good point. DOF may be too shallow at f/1.8. Fundamental photography. Use the aperture that puts everything you want in focus. If no, something will be out. If you focus on an extended hand a face will be out of focus if the aperture is too open. Shutter speed may be too slow.

I like shooting motorsports between f/5.6 and f/8, will sometimes use f/11. Even with something as large as a race car one end of the car can be in focus, the other car out of focus if the lens isn't stopped down. On a bright day at a road race track, I have to use ND filters to stop the lens down and prevent the camera from using one of the ISO LOW settings.

I don't have any problem shooting sports with this lens as long as the subject is close enough. It's so sharp I can crop forever so it doesn't have to be that close. I like using it to give my arm and shoulder a rest when I'm shooting the 40-150 f/2.8 or 300 f/4 for long periods of time.

elpastell · Aug 30, 2022

glassoholic said:
I would suspect the Oly 12mm f2.0, as part of the other Premium Prime series (17,25,75 1.8) will have issues too... presuming the same type of focus motors. The Oly 45mm f1.8 will probably also be a problem then, although I'm not 100% sure it is part of the "Premium Prime" range. The 8mm FE 1.8 Pro was a surprise.

Your prediction regarding the 45mm/f1.8 was spot on. I was immediately able to reproduce the issue as you described with let lens as well as with the 25mm/f1.8. If you simply use a single focus point to a target close to infinity, images taken with S-AF will be sharp, but the focus plane is clearly somewhere else with C-AF.

When I took the S-AF pictures first, and then switched to C-AF, the first picture of the series was sharp, but then the focus quickly drifted further back (beyond infinity) with the 45mm. Here's an excerpt from the exif data from the last picture:

% exiftool 45mm-Infinity/P8314800.ORF | grep "Focus Step"

Focus Step Count : 323
Focus Step Infinity : 335
Focus Step Near : 1584

For 12mm however I didn't see a significant difference (at f/2.0). Images were looking equally sharp. The "Focus Step Count" from the exif data was 5 or 6 steps lower for the C-AF series (which indicates a focus plane a bit further to the back, but not enough to go past infinity):

% exiftool 12mm-Infinity/P8314809.ORF | grep "Focus Step"
Focus Step Count : 195
Focus Step Infinity : 191
Focus Step Near : 472

But the difference between S-AF and C-AF wasn't as big (i.e. >20 steps) as for the 25mm and 45mm at f/1.8.

I haven't been using those lenses with my OM-1 much, and probably never used C-AF at large distances, so I didn't notice this before in real life. But I did see a lot of issues with my 75-300 which is similar to those lenses in one aspect: the total number of available focus steps for the whole distance range is quite small, as it is for the 12mm:

For the pro lenses, you'll see a much higher range of several thousand available focus steps in the EXIF data (indicating that the focus motor can move the focus in much smaller steps). I suspect that the C-AF algorithms of the OM-1 are heavily optimized for these lenses.

tintifax · Aug 31, 2022

--75/1.8 is an excellence lens, one of the sharpest but by far my slowest lens. I would Never use it for Sports!
with best regards from Vienna
Thomas T
If we photographers were taxi-drivers we all wanted a 450 HP Ferrari for our job ;-)
A good picture is a good picture, with 6 MP, 12 MP, 24 MP 36 MP or 45 MP. And it does not become better with more pixels ;-)

whumber · Aug 31, 2022

tintifax said:
75/1.8 is an excellence lens, one of the sharpest but by far my slowest lens. I would Never use it for Sports!

It's a very good lens for indoor sports.

NiX82 · Aug 31, 2022

Are we still in agreement that there's an issue with the OM-1 and the 75mm f1.8 (and a whole bunch of other lenses apparently) with C-AF and long distant subjects?

Or are we suddenly saying that it's fine and it's just how it is? Or that there's further testing to be done? Because sometimes I feel like we're taking a few steps back...

By the way, I read the discussion in the German forum that a user linked to a few days ago, and the "situation" has been reported up to Japan, where they've been able to reproduce the "situation", but cannot confirm if and when they'll have a solution. This doesn't mean it wouldn't be helpful to provide additional feedback to them though.

whumber · Aug 31, 2022

NiX82 said:
Are we still in agreement that there's an issue with the OM-1 and the 75mm f1.8 (and a whole bunch of other lenses apparently) with C-AF and long distant subjects?

Or are we suddenly saying that it's fine and it's just how it is? Or that there's further testing to be done? Because sometimes I feel like we're taking a few steps back...

By the way, I read the discussion in the German forum that a user linked to a few days ago, and the "situation" has been reported up to Japan, where they've been able to reproduce the "situation", but cannot confirm if and when they'll have a solution. This doesn't mean it wouldn't be helpful to provide additional feedback to them though.

There's definitely some issue with the current OM-1 and 75 1.8 FW. I was just saying that in general the 75 1.8 is very good lens for indoor sports, I've used it many times for that purpose.

glassoholic · Aug 31, 2022

NiX82 said:
Are we still in agreement that there's an issue with the OM-1 and the 75mm f1.8 (and a whole bunch of other lenses apparently) with C-AF and long distant subjects?

Or are we suddenly saying that it's fine and it's just how it is? Or that there's further testing to be done? Because sometimes I feel like we're taking a few steps back...

By the way, I read the discussion in the German forum that a user linked to a few days ago, and the "situation" has been reported up to Japan, where they've been able to reproduce the "situation", but cannot confirm if and when they'll have a solution. This doesn't mean it wouldn't be helpful to provide additional feedback to them though.

Oh yes... "Japan" needs to get several lenses updated to enable correct CAF operation with the OM-1.

Is the Oly 75mm rubbish at sport photography and/or distant subjects?

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