dSLR and personal safety

I wasn't threatened or attacked but the camera is definitely drawing attention. When some guy sees you taking a picture in the street in the middle of the night and asks you to show them the pictures you've taken, you can help but being torn between having a nice photography chat with him or inventing an excuse and go away.

On another note, I find posting pictures or guns as a reply to that post is a bit offensive (to me at least). I'd rather lose £1200 than killing someone to protect my camera.

Roy van der Woning said:

Has anyone had experiences with their dSLR drawing unwanted
attention? Or worse, has anyone been threatened, attacked or stolen
from because of the expensive looking gear you're carrying?

I often wonder how much of a risk I'd take going out all by myself,
carrying thousands of dollars worth of equipment.

Even if you haven't had any bad experiences, do these thoughts pass
your mind as well?

Roy.

Click to expand...

Juli,

The name is confusing but talk to your agent about it. I have one for my photograpy/video business and it costs around $300 per year. I get depreciated value instead of replacement cost but at least it is something. I may add to it or say some of my "pro" stuff is really for my hobby. I don't want to get into trouble but insurance is such a ripoff in general that I want to make sure my equipment will get replaced if it is stolen.

It would be great if an insurance agent could post here for all of our benefit.

Greg Matty

I would ask a question in return -- what's the point in buying thousands of dollars worth of equipment, if you are too frightened to take it out and use it?

I have carried my equipment in plain sight all over the US, the middle east, Asia and Europe for over 30 years. I can't say that I've ever had a problem. The fact that I'm a big guy, six feet two tall and a confident individual helps I'm sure.

Recently I was shooting a concert in a bar and was threatened by a drunk who was at least 25 years younger than me -- and he was obviously a very powerful body-builder. If his friends hadn't stopped him, he would have attacked me, and I would have broken my 1D and 70-200mm over his head if necessary. That's the closest call I've ever had, and it had nothing to do with the equipment I was carrying.

I think you have to decide who you are. I am somebody who takes pictures at every opportunity that presents itself. That means that sometimes my cameras and I go into dangerous situations. I am prepared to walk away from trouble, defend myself if necessary, or to calmly hand over my equipment to an attacker if that seems prudent. I am not prepared to leave my cameras home out of fear. Each of us must decide how to live our own lives.

Regards,
Paul
http://www.pbase.com/pgrupp

Roy van der Woning said:

Has anyone had experiences with their dSLR drawing unwanted
attention? Or worse, has anyone been threatened, attacked or stolen
from because of the expensive looking gear you're carrying?

I often wonder how much of a risk I'd take going out all by myself,
carrying thousands of dollars worth of equipment.

Even if you haven't had any bad experiences, do these thoughts pass
your mind as well?

Roy.

Click to expand...

Its certainly an issue thats crossed my mind. I am fortunate enough that the place where I like to take pictures the most is safe enough that I feel comfortable walking around with the camera around my neck. I like to take pictures at a high enough frequency that it would be a pain to have to continually be taking it out of my backpack and putting it away.

I would probably feel reasonably safe with my camera any place that I felt safe without it. But in many of those places I would use the approach of only having it visible when I was actually taking a picture. I also would avoid going places where I basically felt unsafe in order to take pictures. Certainly I strongly prefer to avoid places where there is any thought that a firearm might be needed. I took pictures with my digicams in the San Francisco Bay area, Los Angeles, and Sydney Australia. I don't think that I would worry too much about using my 10D any of the places that I took pictures with a digicam. But in the big cities I would keep it in my backpack most of the time.

My view on insurance is similar to Olga's. You can't expect to make money off of insurance. The insurance company has to pay its costs and make a profit. Insurance is good for protecting yourself against unlikely but catastrophic events. It also may be able to help you manage situations where you have to accept more frequent losses. But there is no way you are going to avoid the cost of losses if they happen with any frequency.
David Jacobson

This looks like my previously owned SA-M7 AK.. is it the same? If not, what make is it?

I loved mine.. wish I had not sold it.

Jon

Dustin Finn said:

I wonder if I started carrying this around which they would stare
at more... the camera or the weapon



(notice the camera bag on the table )

• Dustin

Http: www.DustinFinn.com

Click to expand...

--
Jon

http://www.pbase.com/MNJON

Paul Grupp said:

I think you have to decide who you are. I am somebody who takes
pictures at every opportunity that presents itself. That means that
sometimes my cameras and I go into dangerous situations. I am
prepared to walk away from trouble, defend myself if necessary, or
to calmly hand over my equipment to an attacker if that seems
prudent. I am not prepared to leave my cameras home out of fear.
Each of us must decide how to live our own lives.

Click to expand...

Very well said. I'm a little guy; 5'5" and 120lbs, so I don't exactly have much of an intimidiation factor going on. If some 6 foot brusier comes up to me in downtown Chicago (my favorite place to shoot) and asks me for my camera, he's sure as hell going to get it; whether I'm packing or not. I have a family and fiancee that love me, I'm not going to die for a piece of electronics. There are millions of cameras out there to replace it with, but each of us only gets one shot at life; ending it because we didn't want to let go of a $1,500 camera seems like a hell of a waste for me. There are things all of us would die for - family, friends, beliefs - but should some silicon, plastic, and glass be one of those things?

pgrupp said:

I have carried my equipment in plain sight all over the US, the
middle east, Asia and Europe for over 30 years. I can't say that
I've ever had a problem. The fact that I'm a big guy, six feet two
tall and a confident individual helps I'm sure.

Recently I was shooting a concert in a bar and was threatened by a
drunk who was at least 25 years younger than me -- and he was
obviously a very powerful body-builder. If his friends hadn't
stopped him, he would have attacked me, and I would have broken my
1D and 70-200mm over his head if necessary. That's the closest call
I've ever had, and it had nothing to do with the equipment I was
carrying.

I think you have to decide who you are. I am somebody who takes
pictures at every opportunity that presents itself. That means that
sometimes my cameras and I go into dangerous situations. I am
prepared to walk away from trouble, defend myself if necessary, or
to calmly hand over my equipment to an attacker if that seems
prudent. I am not prepared to leave my cameras home out of fear.
Each of us must decide how to live our own lives.

Regards,
Paul
http://www.pbase.com/pgrupp

Roy van der Woning said:

Has anyone had experiences with their dSLR drawing unwanted
attention? Or worse, has anyone been threatened, attacked or stolen
from because of the expensive looking gear you're carrying?

I often wonder how much of a risk I'd take going out all by myself,
carrying thousands of dollars worth of equipment.

Even if you haven't had any bad experiences, do these thoughts pass
your mind as well?

Roy.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

And since you dont put your eye to any finder or even get the thing to your eye nobody knows your are taking a pic.

--
Gaetan J.

Vern Stevens said:

Dogs (or some other types of pets) can also help.

Click to expand...

My current cat like people so much I think he would help a robber just to be pet. I dont think that's what you meant even if he's got half inch claws.

But then I used to have a cat that once protected my mother from a charging pitbull. The dog owner had to get the dog inside to protect it. dont know what hapenned after that, guess dad made a visit cause the guy moved elsewhere in a hurry

nchopp said:

Very well said. I'm a little guy; 5'5" and 120lbs, so I don't
exactly have much of an intimidiation factor going on. If some 6
foot brusier comes up to me in downtown Chicago (my favorite place
to shoot) and asks me for my camera, he's sure as hell going to get
it; whether I'm packing or not. I have a family and fiancee that
love me, I'm not going to die for a piece of electronics. There are
millions of cameras out there to replace it with, but each of us
only gets one shot at life; ending it because we didn't want to let
go of a $1,500 camera seems like a hell of a waste for me. There
are things all of us would die for - family, friends, beliefs - but
should some silicon, plastic, and glass be one of those things?

Click to expand...

insurance will pay for new stuff, maybe a good thing if the one you got isn't available anymore. Happened to me at home, they got my guitars and amps. The insurance replaced them for better stuff, they paid the replacement value for equivalent new stuff (same spec if you will) and I paid the difference (because of the upgrade). Now I have sold everything to start my studio. Once everything is working I'll get myself a Lespaul.

--
Gaetan J.

Paul Grupp said:

I would ask a question in return -- what's the point in buying
thousands of dollars worth of equipment, if you are too frightened
to take it out and use it?

Click to expand...

Frightened is not what I would call it. But I am concerned and from the responses I got so far, it would seem that I'm not alone.

Paul Grupp said:

I have carried my equipment in plain sight all over the US, the
middle east, Asia and Europe for over 30 years. I can't say that
I've ever had a problem. The fact that I'm a big guy, six feet two
tall and a confident individual helps I'm sure.

Click to expand...

Not big, 6'4 though and confident enough.

Paul Grupp said:

Recently I was shooting a concert in a bar and was threatened by a
drunk who was at least 25 years younger than me -- and he was
obviously a very powerful body-builder. If his friends hadn't
stopped him, he would have attacked me, and I would have broken my
1D and 70-200mm over his head if necessary. That's the closest call
I've ever had, and it had nothing to do with the equipment I was
carrying.

Click to expand...

The idea of hitting someone with the very thing I'm trying to protect seems kind of counterintuitive to me but frankly, I don't know what I'd do in such a situation. Possibly the same as you.

Paul Grupp said:

I think you have to decide who you are.

Click to expand...

I know who I am, but I think that has little bearing on the risk you face when you're out with expensive equipment. If anything, it may help if you appear strong and confident, but it would be a strange world if photography were only for the Arnies among us.

Paul Grupp said:

I am somebody who takes pictures at every opportunity that
presents itself. That means that sometimes my cameras and I go
into dangerous situations. I am prepared to walk away from trouble,
defend myself if necessary, or to calmly hand over my equipment to
an attacker if that seems prudent. I am not prepared to leave my
cameras home out of fear.

Click to expand...

I never have either. But there's a big difference beween fear and a healthy dose of concern.

Paul Grupp said:

Each of us must decide how to live our own lives.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately though, a very large part of how we live our lives is decided for us.

Roy.

dnjake said:

I don't think that I would worry too much about using my 10D any
of the places that I took pictures with a digicam.

Click to expand...

The 10D is a digicam.

dnjake said:

My view on insurance is similar to Olga's. You can't expect to
make money off of insurance.

Click to expand...

I wouldn't want to. I just want it to replace the stuff that was stolen from me.

dnjake said:

The insurance company has to pay its costs and make a profit.

Click to expand...

They do that by collecting more premiums than what they have to pay in damages. That's how insurance works.

dnjake said:

Insurance is good for protecting yourself against unlikely but
catastrophic events. It also may be able to help you manage
situations where you have to accept more frequent losses. But
there is no way you are going to avoid the cost of losses if they
happen with any frequency.

Click to expand...

I hope that won't be the case for me as far as camera theft is concerned.

Roy.

Roy van der Woning said:

Has anyone had experiences with their dSLR drawing unwanted
attention? Or worse, has anyone been threatened, attacked or stolen
from because of the expensive looking gear you're carrying?

I often wonder how much of a risk I'd take going out all by myself,
carrying thousands of dollars worth of equipment.

Even if you haven't had any bad experiences, do these thoughts pass
your mind as well?

Roy.

Click to expand...

When ever I'm out alone or at night with my 10d I take my black German Shepherd "Amber" with me, she's well trained and will go if I tell her to, she stays by me off the lead, and she enjoys the walks : ) you can see people look at the dog more than take notice of the camera, I also carry an extendable steel batton the type the police use here in the UK, about 7" long closed, with a flick of the wrist it it extends to around 2' I feel OK with my pal and my stick.

Called an asp, and you just gotta love the "snick" noise they make when you flip 'em out. Many hardened criminals will recognize that. ;-)

Paul Whitelaw said:

When ever I'm out alone or at night with my 10d I take my black
German Shepherd "Amber" with me, she's well trained and will go if
I tell her to, she stays by me off the lead, and she enjoys the
walks : ) you can see people look at the dog more than take notice
of the camera, I also carry an extendable steel batton the type the
police use here in the UK, about 7" long closed, with a flick of
the wrist it it extends to around 2' I feel OK with my pal and my
stick.

Click to expand...

Paul Whitelaw said:

When ever I'm out alone or at night with my 10d I take my black
German Shepherd "Amber" with me, she's well trained and will go if
I tell her to, she stays by me off the lead, and she enjoys the
walks : )

Click to expand...

Sounds like a great partnership! But I'm afraid that my Masja would be high up in the nearest tree before I even realized that I was being mugged.



Roy.

Hi Roy,

Your responses are reasonable -- I didn't mean to imply that you are living in fear -- my point is just that we shouldn't let our concern make us stop living our lives. What we're all struggling with I think, is the balance between a reasonable desire for personal security, and a reasonable desire to experience the world. We all draw the line in a different place.

In terms of my story about thinking of using the camera as a weapon, we may differ slightly here. In any potential conflict, my first choice is to defuse or escape the situation. My second choice is to give up possessions to end the conflict. My third choice is to fight. If I have to do that, my goal is to subdue my attacker as quickly as possible before he has a chance to do serious harm or injury to me. If that requires me to damage an expensive possession, so be it. I am not a trained martial arts expert, and you never know when an opponent is going to pull out a knife or gun -- so my response is likely to be pretty intense and violent -- but again, only when I see no other option to escape the confrontation.

Roy van der Woning said:

Roy van der Woning said:

I would ask a question in return -- what's the point in buying
thousands of dollars worth of equipment, if you are too frightened
to take it out and use it?

Click to expand...

Frightened is not what I would call it. But I am concerned and from
the responses I got so far, it would seem that I'm not alone.

Roy van der Woning said:

I have carried my equipment in plain sight all over the US, the
middle east, Asia and Europe for over 30 years. I can't say that
I've ever had a problem. The fact that I'm a big guy, six feet two
tall and a confident individual helps I'm sure.

Click to expand...

Not big, 6'4 though and confident enough.

Roy van der Woning said:

Recently I was shooting a concert in a bar and was threatened by a
drunk who was at least 25 years younger than me -- and he was
obviously a very powerful body-builder. If his friends hadn't
stopped him, he would have attacked me, and I would have broken my
1D and 70-200mm over his head if necessary. That's the closest call
I've ever had, and it had nothing to do with the equipment I was
carrying.

Click to expand...

The idea of hitting someone with the very thing I'm trying to
protect seems kind of counterintuitive to me but frankly, I don't
know what I'd do in such a situation. Possibly the same as you.

Roy van der Woning said:

I think you have to decide who you are.

Click to expand...

I know who I am, but I think that has little bearing on the risk
you face when you're out with expensive equipment. If anything, it
may help if you appear strong and confident, but it would be a
strange world if photography were only for the Arnies among us.

Roy van der Woning said:

I am somebody who takes pictures at every opportunity that
presents itself. That means that sometimes my cameras and I go
into dangerous situations. I am prepared to walk away from trouble,
defend myself if necessary, or to calmly hand over my equipment to
an attacker if that seems prudent. I am not prepared to leave my
cameras home out of fear.

Click to expand...

I never have either. But there's a big difference beween fear and a
healthy dose of concern.

Roy van der Woning said:

Each of us must decide how to live our own lives.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately though, a very large part of how we live our lives is
decided for us.

Roy.

Click to expand...

--

Regards,
Paul
http://www.pbase.com/pgrupp

Paul Grupp said:

Your responses are reasonable -- I didn't mean to imply that you
are living in fear -- my point is just that we shouldn't let our
concern make us stop living our lives.

Click to expand...

That I wholeheartedly agree with. Fortunately, our current crime rates and my personal experiences never gave me a reason to do that. My concern only serves the purpose of prevention, not escapism. I know when to stand my ground.

Paul Grupp said:

What we're all struggling with I think, is the balance between a
reasonable desire for personal security, and a reasonable desire to
experience the world. We all draw the line in a different place.

Click to expand...

You're right. I'd say that I'm somewhere in the middle of that picture. I don't take unnecessary risks (even though "unnecessary" is highly subjective) but I don't intend to live my life in a glass cage either.

Paul Grupp said:

In terms of my story about thinking of using the camera as a
weapon, we may differ slightly here. In any potential conflict, my
first choice is to defuse or escape the situation. My second choice
is to give up possessions to end the conflict. My third choice is
to fight. If I have to do that, my goal is to subdue my attacker as
quickly as possible before he has a chance to do serious harm or
injury to me. If that requires me to damage an expensive
possession, so be it.

Click to expand...

I don't think we differ that much. What I meant was that it sounds a bit odd to (a) attack someone with a camera and (b) use the very thing that they're after as a weapon. But that's speaking from the comfort of my chair. If push comes to shove, I'm sure I'd prioritize between my gear and myself just like you do.

Paul Grupp said:

I am not a trained martial arts expert, and you never know when an
opponent is going to pull out a knife or gun -- so my response is likely
to be pretty intense and violent -- but again, only when I see
no other option to escape the confrontation.

Click to expand...

That's what I meant in my post further up in this thread about using my umbrella as a weapon. I most certainly am not going to deal one blow, assume that the perp is sufficiently incapacitated and then turn my back on him. I'll leave that kind of nonsense to B-rated horror movies (don't you just HATE the end of Friday the 13th?).

Roy.

Roy I do travel a lot for work.

I nomally carry a lot of gadgets and funny looking equipment too. Typicallly a camera (compact such as Nikon CP 995, in my last trip my 10D+28-135 IS USM), gps unit, cell phone, laptop. Most of the time I carry taht with me in a backpack with notepads and other stuff. As you can imagine, when traveling carrying a gun, or even a peper spray is not an option. Even if it were and option, I wouldn't do it: if you pull a gun you better be determined and prepared to shot.

Going to the safey concerns, being mindful of the environment and using comon sense is the best protection you may have. If possible always travel with somebody else: lone targets are most easily picked by thieves.

Get insurance for your equipment, if available. Above all, I always have in mind that life is more important than material things.

Perhaps I have been lucky, but I have never been threaded or robbed. Sometimes I wanted to walk into a place that seems suspicious... but I didn't... It's better to be safe than sorry. Common sense again. My 2 cents...

--
The pure and simple truth ... is rarely pure and seldom simple.

Your comments will help me to improve my photos!
http://www.bytephoto.com/photopost/showgallery.php?ppuser=393

I've never had a bad experience in 35 years of carrying expensive camera gear around. The average hoodlum can't tell the difference between a Diana and a Hasselblad, so it doens't matter what you are carrying.

Abu Mumia
Alaska
--
'He's out there operating without any decent restraint, totally beyond
the pale of any acceptable human conduct.'

• Apocalypse Now

I am female, of slight(ish!!) build and walk around the streets of downtown Sydney, Australia capturing images of street folk, homeless men and buskers, etc with a D60 and 300 f/4 L IS around my neck. No, to date, I have not been threatened or even intimidated. I am aware, of course, that the A$8,000 around my neck would keep a lot of homeless folk in beer and ciggies for a year and tomorrow I may be mugged BUT if you worried about what MIGHT happen, you would never go outside. And there is little of interest to photograph inside your house/apartment/flat!

Cheers
Sheila

Sheila Smart
http://www.pbase.com/sheila

One crowded hour of glorious life is worth an age without a name - Thomas Osbert Mordaunt

Lew said:

Is that six oz. with or without ammo?

Not familiar with that weapon; does it have a Glock like safety
where as the trigger is drawn back the safety disengages? Will it
fire a chambered round if the magazine is not in the weapon?

Click to expand...

Ok, it's official the US really is sick country. What sort of pathetic society encourages and allows one to carry handguns around.