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Mirrorless Cameras / Horseless Carriages / Propless Airplanes

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Phil A Martin said:
OpticsEngineer said:
"...what name would you suggest?"

EVC

Electronic View Camera
Click to expand...
Except a "view camera" is already a thing :-

"A view camera is a large-format camera in which the lens forms an inverted image on a ground glass screen directly at the plane of the film. The image is viewed and then the glass screen is removed and the film inserted in its place, and thus the film is exposed to exactly the same image as was seen on the screen. Wikipedia"

Unless of course you mean a canera with a five by four inch sensor.
Click to expand...
They do not necessarlily mean the same thing.

As I interpreted this it should be: Electronic View - Camera, not Electronic - View Camera.
 
Cherry_F said:
alcelc said:
Why not simply MIRRORLESS?

The benefit on using mirrorless can also imply the key difference from DSLR: reflex mirror and non Live View operation vs 100% Live View operation of mirrorless ...
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Let's change DSLR for LIVELESS then !
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No, for clarity DSLR should be categorized as a non mirrorles camera.
 
Fogel70 said:
Phil A Martin said:
OpticsEngineer said:
"...what name would you suggest?"

EVC

Electronic View Camera
Click to expand...
Except a "view camera" is already a thing :-

"A view camera is a large-format camera in which the lens forms an inverted image on a ground glass screen directly at the plane of the film. The image is viewed and then the glass screen is removed and the film inserted in its place, and thus the film is exposed to exactly the same image as was seen on the screen. Wikipedia"

Unless of course you mean a canera with a five by four inch sensor.
Click to expand...
They do not necessarlily mean the same thing.
Click to expand...
But "view camera" definitely means a specific type of film camera. Why call a mirrorless digital camera a "view camera" and confuse people, when there already is a perfectly good descriptor for the type, namely MILC? This whole discussion is a pointless waste of time, people just juggling to get the last word in.
Fogel70 said:
As I interpreted this it should be: Electronic View - Camera, not Electronic - View Camera.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Phil A Martin said:
Fogel70 said:
Phil A Martin said:
OpticsEngineer said:
"...what name would you suggest?"

EVC

Electronic View Camera
Click to expand...
Except a "view camera" is already a thing :-

"A view camera is a large-format camera in which the lens forms an inverted image on a ground glass screen directly at the plane of the film. The image is viewed and then the glass screen is removed and the film inserted in its place, and thus the film is exposed to exactly the same image as was seen on the screen. Wikipedia"

Unless of course you mean a canera with a five by four inch sensor.
Click to expand...
They do not necessarlily mean the same thing.
Click to expand...
But "view camera" definitely means a specific type of film camera. Why call a mirrorless digital camera a "view camera" and confuse people, when there already is a perfectly good descriptor for the type, namely MILC? This whole discussion is a pointless waste of time, people just juggling to get the last word in.
Click to expand...
I do not think the "mirrorless" will live on for long, as in a not to distant future most poeple will not know what the "mirrorless" refer to. People will not get the "mirrorless" as for them it has an obscure origin.

Even today most younger peole have never seen a "mirrored" camera.
Phil A Martin said:
Phil A Martin said:
As I interpreted this it should be: Electronic View - Camera, not Electronic - View Camera.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Marty4650 said:
zzip said:
Marty4650 said:
OpticsEngineer said:
"What name would you have preferred?"

EVC

Electronic View Camera
Click to expand...
OK, fair enough.

But how would you differentiate from the other Electronic View Cameras with fixed lenses? Do you think an ILC is needed somewhere in the name?
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just like dSLR dSLM does not not need ILC
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Virtually all SLRs are ILC.
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neither dSLR nor dSLM nor dSLT need any ILC garbage in they acronyms - they are just fine w/o this string attached
Marty4650 said:
But there exist a couple of hundred MILC cameras and at least that many more fixed lens cameras that have "electronic view" so do you want to differentiate them, or do you just assume "everyone will know?"
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dSLM are differentiated from dSLR and everybody knows what dSLM is vs dSLR
Marty4650 said:
Are the Nikon Z9 and the Sony RX10 to both be called "Electronic View Cameras?"
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they are dSLMs - one of them a fixed lens dSLM
 
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Cherry_F said:
That one could also be called trigger-less?

I'd that in the near future, smartphones will be able to decide by themselves when it's worth taking a picture... and we'll have nothing to press.

An endless discussion!
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Better yet in the future, we will depend on drones to take our photos for us without human intervention. We will copy our brains to the camera so it will always know exactly what photos we would take.
 
Phil A Martin said:
Fogel70 said:
They do not necessarlily mean the same thing.
Click to expand...
But "view camera" definitely means a specific type of film camera. Why call a mirrorless digital camera a "view camera" and confuse people, when there already is a perfectly good descriptor for the type, namely MILC? This whole discussion is a pointless waste of time, people just juggling to get the last word in.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's what he meant. I interpreted it not as a type view camera but a camera with an electronic view. That said because DSLRs are capable of electronic view with the mirror up that name wouldn't be useful.
 
tbcass said:
That said because DSLRs are capable of electronic view with the mirror up that name wouldn't be useful.
Click to expand...
you do not need to have mirror up to have EVF/LCD feed... dSLRs have metering sensors operating with mirror in down position... a proper metering sensor can feed EVF/LCD in dSLR ... not to mention dSLT cameras
 
neither "ILC" nor "EVF" are key things for dSLMs.... dSLM can have fixed lens or interchangeble lens... dSLM can have EVF or not ( just stick a dumb OVF in hot shoe matching your lens focal ) ... the key is being mirrorless and digital... so in paying homage to established acronym dSLR those cameras are dSLMs... and dSLTs ... not stupid milcs or evils
 
Last edited:
Phil A Martin said:
OpticsEngineer said:
"...what name would you suggest?"

EVC

Electronic View Camera
Click to expand...
Except a "view camera" is already a thing :-

"A view camera is a large-format camera in which the lens forms an inverted image on a ground glass screen directly at the plane of the film. The image is viewed and then the glass screen is removed and the film inserted in its place, and thus the film is exposed to exactly the same image as was seen on the screen. Wikipedia"

Unless of course you mean a canera with a five by four inch sensor.
Click to expand...
Chimpview camera then. ;)
 
zzip said:
neither "ILC" nor "EVF" are key things for dSLMs.... dSLM can have fixed lens or interchangeble lens... dSLM can have EVF or not ( just stick a dumb OVF in hot shoe matching your lens focal ) ... the key is being mirrorless and digital... so in paying homage to established acronym dSLR those cameras are dSLMs... and dSLTs ... not stupid milcs or evils
Click to expand...
You are taking this subthread too seriously. It was tongue in cheek all the way.
 
tbcass said:
Phil A Martin said:
Fogel70 said:
They do not necessarlily mean the same thing.
Click to expand...
But "view camera" definitely means a specific type of film camera. Why call a mirrorless digital camera a "view camera" and confuse people, when there already is a perfectly good descriptor for the type, namely MILC? This whole discussion is a pointless waste of time, people just juggling to get the last word in.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's what he meant. I interpreted it not as a type view camera but a camera with an electronic view. That said because DSLRs are capable of electronic view with the mirror up that name wouldn't be useful.
Click to expand...
What he thinks it says and what it does say are not necessarily the same thing. View cameras are so called because you are literally viewing the subject through the camera. MILC cameras are totally different, with these you are looking at an image of the subject on a screen as processed by the camera Software. Which people claim as one of the prime advantages of this type of digital camera and it might well be but it's a completely different experience to a view camera.
tbcass said:
--
Tom
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Phil A Martin said:
Jack Calypso said:
Thomas A Anderson said:
OpticsEngineer said:
It seems kind of silly to refer to things by contents they don't have. Isn't it about time we stop saying mirrorless cameras and just said cameras? Like we talk about cars instead of horseless carriages. Or jets instead of propless airplanes.
Click to expand...
The term these days seems to be MILC -- Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera. There is no reason to mention whether there is a mirror or not. ILC is all that is required.
Click to expand...
A Leica M3 is a Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera, too.
Click to expand...
As is my Toyo 45AII 5x4 film camera.
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And my Canon G7XII is mirrorless. The M3 is a rangefinder. The 5x4 is referred to as a large format film camera. The term mirrorless is meaningless just in the context of these examples alone. And ILC in the age of digital cameras doesn't require specifying "digital" any longer like back when DSLR was coined.

Either way. I just think saying "mirrorless" sounds confusing and redundant to the ILC which is both uniquely modern and very to the point like SLR is. And if one says "mirrorless" then the ILC really is repetitive since nobody refers to a Point and Shoot as "mirrorless" and never has.

Just my opinion. I have no delusions about anyone changing their mind.
 
Phil A Martin said:
tbcass said:
Phil A Martin said:
Fogel70 said:
They do not necessarlily mean the same thing.
Click to expand...
But "view camera" definitely means a specific type of film camera. Why call a mirrorless digital camera a "view camera" and confuse people, when there already is a perfectly good descriptor for the type, namely MILC? This whole discussion is a pointless waste of time, people just juggling to get the last word in.
Click to expand...
I don't think that's what he meant. I interpreted it not as a type view camera but a camera with an electronic view. That said because DSLRs are capable of electronic view with the mirror up that name wouldn't be useful.
Click to expand...
What he thinks it says and what it does say are not necessarily the same thing. View cameras are so called because you are literally viewing the subject through the camera. MILC cameras are totally different, with these you are looking at an image of the subject on a screen as processed by the camera Software. Which people claim as one of the prime advantages of this type of digital camera and it might well be but it's a completely different experience to a view camera.
Click to expand...
What I think you missed is that the meaing of the Electronic View Camera (EVC) it not that it is a electronic version of a "View Camera" but a camera with "Electronic View". You compose the image using an electronic screen or EVF.

So depending on you accentuates "Electronic View" or "View Cameras" when saying Electronic View Camera, they mean two different things.
 
Words mean what people use them to mean

The boa holiday after you get married is called a honey moon. Presumably for a good reason. But I don’t know that reason

Mirrorless means digital interchangeable lens camera but not a DSLR

You might not like it but I checked 3 retailers. WEX in the uk Adorama B&H in the USA

f44a5c08bcf54cca87e26b66330382d9.jpg


93b0a3ec4a454dcfbc83dad5ae7b6c8f.jpg


de4708fc67864771a5bb1581506e6afc.jpg


--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/john_clinch/
http://www.flickriver.com/photos/john_clinch/popular-interesting/
 
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john Clinch said:
Words mean what people use them to mean

The boa holiday after you get married is called a honey moon. Presumably for a good reason. But I don’t know that reason

Mirrorless means digital interchangeable lens camera but not a DSLR

You might not like it but I checked 3 retailers. WEX in the uk Adorama B&H in the USA
Click to expand...
This show how messy the "Digital camera type" has become, a mix between formats and type of cameras.

What is the logic in what B&H use?
  • Mirrorless
  • DSLR
  • Point & Shoot
  • Medium Format
  • Full Frame
Where not all DSLR or Mirrorless cameras are listed under DSLR or Mirrorless category.

And it is a little tragic that WEX list film cameras in the digital camera category.
john Clinch said:
f44a5c08bcf54cca87e26b66330382d9.jpg


93b0a3ec4a454dcfbc83dad5ae7b6c8f.jpg


de4708fc67864771a5bb1581506e6afc.jpg
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Slow news day?
 
tbcass said:
zzip said:
neither "ILC" nor "EVF" are key things for dSLMs.... dSLM can have fixed lens or interchangeble lens... dSLM can have EVF or not ( just stick a dumb OVF in hot shoe matching your lens focal ) ... the key is being mirrorless and digital... so in paying homage to established acronym dSLR those cameras are dSLMs... and dSLTs ... not stupid milcs or evils
Click to expand...
You are taking this subthread too seriously. It was tongue in cheek all the way.
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milcy evils and evily milcs shall be obliterated... long live dSLMs !!!
 
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