Fujifilm - good or bad for analogue photography

The only film I would return to film for is Velvia 50. Oddly enough I have one new roll in the fridge and one exposed. They will likely end up in the garbage, even though they are 120.

Unfortunately in my location film/processing was too expensive before the latest increase. So I had already given up on the idea.

Fujifilm is certainly not making the demise of film any worse.

Overrank said:

With the recent well publicized price rises of Fujifilm films, and the regular discontinuing of films, I’ve heard a few people say that it would be better for the film community if Fujifilm pulled out of making film altogether (of course apart from Instax). I think the idea is that Fuji is a distraction and sends out the wrong message, with pulling films and blaming diminishing sales.

With the exception of the very cheap end I don’t really shoot Fujifilm films so it wouldn’t make any immediate difference to me if Fuji were too pull out of the market completely. But I’d be interested in what other people think - do you think Fujifilm should quit film manufacture altogether, or should it maintain a presence?

(I’m not including all the pro chemicals here - if the Fuji Hunt chemicals stopped being produced I suspect everyone shooting film would be affected one way or another.)

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I am quite fond of Velvia 50 so I’m hoping it doesn’t go anywhere. Ektachrome is my most used film but I like having a few rolls of Velvia on hand.

Honestly I don't know. What's frustrating about Fujifilm is how opaque they are compared to Kodak. Kodak has been sharing far more information with journalists, for example they have said that for 4 straight years their photo film sales have been increasing at least 20% YoY. They also changed the base materials for several of their films and explained why. Another display of transparency was those silver-capped canisters that came with an explanation, or their increased usage of air freight for supply chain and distribution, which contributed to raising costs. They also revealed recent investments into additional manufacturing capacity.

Fujifilm never says much. Hard to have an opinion on what should they do without any data.

Doesn't affect me much, since I shoot mostly traditional B&W (so I"m good with Ilford, Kodak and Foma), but I think generally the more manufacturers making film, and the more film choices available, the better. It's not as if cannibalizing sales is a problem right now -- I think the last few years has pretty well established that most films will sell well.

That said, I can understand any company getting out of the photography business... Fuji is well invested in digital, which is in decline, and if the company is shifting its focus (heh), it makes sense they might want to get out of photography altogether. Different story for, say, Harman (Ilford), which has a much more robust business in film and chemicals and isn't directly affected by any drop in the digital camera market.

But that's all just supposition...

Aaron

Overrank said:

With the exception of the very cheap end I don’t really shoot Fujifilm films so it wouldn’t make any immediate difference to me if Fuji were too pull out of the market completely. But I’d be interested in what other people think - do you think Fujifilm should quit film manufacture altogether, or should it maintain a presence?

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Like Aaron, I mostly shoot b&w from Ilford, so no change here (although, I did hoard a few packs of Provia, 400h and Portra 400 before the price increases).

From dpreview article comments, it seems that Fuji's actions leave the impression that film demand is dropping, while I understand the opposite is true. It would be a shame if the hardware and technology from Fuji goes away, while others (Adox) try to develop new films and processes.

John Crowe said:

The only film I would return to film for is Velvia 50. Oddly enough I have one new roll in the fridge and one exposed. They will likely end up in the garbage, even though they are 120.

Unfortunately in my location film/processing was too expensive before the latest increase. So I had already given up on the idea.

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I think we’re quite spoiled in the UK for analogue - there are lots of places doing E6 processing from about £5.50 upwards

John Crowe said:

Fujifilm is certainly not making the demise of film any worse.

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Trevor Sowers said:

Overrank said:

With the recent well publicized price rises of Fujifilm films, and the regular discontinuing of films, I’ve heard a few people say that it would be better for the film community if Fujifilm pulled out of making film altogether (of course apart from Instax). I think the idea is that Fuji is a distraction and sends out the wrong message, with pulling films and blaming diminishing sales.

With the exception of the very cheap end I don’t really shoot Fujifilm films so it wouldn’t make any immediate difference to me if Fuji were too pull out of the market completely. But I’d be interested in what other people think - do you think Fujifilm should quit film manufacture altogether, or should it maintain a presence?

(I’m not including all the pro chemicals here - if the Fuji Hunt chemicals stopped being produced I suspect everyone shooting film would be affected one way or another.)

Click to expand...

I am quite fond of Velvia 50 so I’m hoping it doesn’t go anywhere. Ektachrome is my most used film but I like having a few rolls of Velvia on hand.

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I particularly like Ektachrome, I’ve only used Velvia a couple of times and wasn’t particularly swayed one way or the other. before E100 I did used to use Agfa Precisa CT which was rebranded Fuji Provia, but it wa s also only £6 a roll. Now everything is £20/roll Id rather use E100.

Velvia though is one of the things people are talking about - Fuji have discontinued Velvia 50 as sheet film, and Velvia 100 in the USA, and this filters down as “Velvia is discontinued”.

DrBormental said:

Honestly I don't know. What's frustrating about Fujifilm is how opaque they are compared to Kodak. Kodak has been sharing far more information with journalists, for example they have said that for 4 straight years their photo film sales have been increasing at least 20% YoY. They also changed the base materials for several of their films and explained why. Another display of transparency was those silver-capped canisters that came with an explanation, or their increased usage of air freight for supply chain and distribution, which contributed to raising costs. They also revealed recent investments into additional manufacturing capacity.

Fujifilm never says much. Hard to have an opinion on what should they do without any data.

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Kodak have been pretty good about explaining all their issues and what they’re doing about them. I fear more for a lack of ColorPlus than Fujifilm discontinuing emulsions, because ColorPlus is what gets many people into film photography in the first place (one of the reasons it’s so in demand). Fujifilm discontinuing emulsions has become so frequent that the only effect is to make it look as if demand is going down, rather than the opposite.

Autonerd said:

Doesn't affect me much, since I shoot mostly traditional B&W (so I"m good with Ilford, Kodak and Foma), but I think generally the more manufacturers making film, and the more film choices available, the better. It's not as if cannibalizing sales is a problem right now -- I think the last few years has pretty well established that most films will sell well.

That said, I can understand any company getting out of the photography business... Fuji is well invested in digital, which is in decline, and if the company is shifting its focus (heh), it makes sense they might want to get out of photography altogether. Different story for, say, Harman (Ilford), which has a much more robust business in film and chemicals and isn't directly affected by any drop in the digital camera market.

But that's all just supposition...

Aaron

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At the low end (ColorPlus, C200) it looks like it’s all the same film now anyway (made by Kodak). Fuji makes money from Instax, but Ive seen it said that they want to stay in film because that is their heritage. I suspect that’s speculation though, because there’s virtually nothing from FujiFilm about their plans o4 vision for the market.

Ulrik Christiansen said:

Overrank said:

With the exception of the very cheap end I don’t really shoot Fujifilm films so it wouldn’t make any immediate difference to me if Fuji were too pull out of the market completely. But I’d be interested in what other people think - do you think Fujifilm should quit film manufacture altogether, or should it maintain a presence?

Click to expand...

Like Aaron, I mostly shoot b&w from Ilford, so no change here (although, I did hoard a few packs of Provia, 400h and Portra 400 before the price increases).

From dpreview article comments, it seems that Fuji's actions leave the impression that film demand is dropping, while I understand the opposite is true. It would be a shame if the hardware and technology from Fuji goes away, while others (Adox) try to develop new films and processes.

Click to expand...

I think the particular dpreview article about prices going up was very selective in their quoting - it looks as if Fujifilm’s whole photographic business is having problems, not just film, which led to some people getting the wrong end of the stick.

I wouldn’t want to see Fujifilm stop making film, but I think they are having very little to do with any analogue revival, whereas Kodak and Ilford seem to be all in in that area.

Overrank said:

John Crowe said:

The only film I would return to film for is Velvia 50. Oddly enough I have one new roll in the fridge and one exposed. They will likely end up in the garbage, even though they are 120.

Unfortunately in my location film/processing was too expensive before the latest increase. So I had already given up on the idea.

Click to expand...

I think we’re quite spoiled in the UK for analogue - there are lots of places doing E6 processing from about £5.50 upwards

Overrank said:

Fujifilm is certainly not making the demise of film any worse.

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I have a lab here in BC that does Dip and Dunnk E6 for only $11

Since the only 35mm film that's carried in any store in the town is Fujicolor(mainly xtra400) then I'm curious if they would bother to find a replacement if fuji stopped producing. As far as film sales go around here(State College, Pennsylvania) the minute it's put out it's gone within a few hours.

E6 in Toronto is $13.50, which is okay. I just noticed that Velvia 120 50 ISO is a bit tricky to get a hold of. Perhaps that is just Covid. Seems to be about $14 per roll. I am downtown often enough to purchase film once or twice a year, and avoid shipping charges. The expensive part is shipping for processing which is about $30. Then wait up to 8 weeks. Or ship it to Montreal for $10 per roll processing, plus unknown amount for shipping back and forth, and get it in a couple weeks. The film and processing fees are not entirely different from 15 years ago. It is the access that has been reduced tremendously. My moving out into the wilderness has not helped either.

So, the last roll I did cost me about $60. $5 for one 6x6 transparency is just too steep for me.

Agfa Kodak Fuji major entities as far as color emulsions. Not good to lose any world class knowledge and manufacturing capacity. So, BAD.

Fortunately, for black and white we have Ilford and Kodak as major entities. Not sure if Foma is still fully functional. Bless, Ilford, in particular for keeping so many high quality products in standard production. Kodak B&W emulsions have been falling away.

But I still have a small stash of Ektapan sheet film and Verichrome Pan roll film!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Konica, long gone, had some fine emulsions, also.

I can reminisce about an era with family run neighborhood photo stores that had almost every chemical and photo paper can could imagine, even before the era of mail order.

Gesture said:

Agfa Kodak Fuji major entities as far as color emulsions. Not good to lose any world class knowledge and manufacturing capacity. So, BAD.

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yeah i agree pretty much on what you said. It would be bad. Fujifilm has probably the best manufacturing capabilities of all the film players in the market today. Bar none i would even say. not even kodak. All products Fuji make are superbly built and well thought out.

Its the little detail that counts. Like putting self-adhesive tape on the end of a 120 roll so you could just peel and be done with it. While you have to lick kodak's sticky tape (really kodak??). Fuji's 120 film spool/core is also insanely well made, it makes kodaks offering look crude in comparison.

When's the last time fujifilm has any defect? none that i can think of.

When's the last time Kodak has any defects? too many to count. Backing paper issues, mottling, the bad xtol batch fiasco, etc etc

I've even read Henning confirming that fujifilm has a near zero defect rate for the last decade or so. thats just incredible.

Not to mention their films are actually really good. Their superia line-up is imo really underrated. (Fujicolor 100 and Superia xtra 400 are really good)

All this with comparable and even cheaper prices than the competition. The japanese really know their stuff.

Its just that Fuji is run like a corporation from the 80s. With old-school style management and no communication whatsoever.

To have this much manufacturing expertise gone would be a major blow to the film industry. If Fuji pulls out of film, there would be even less incentive for Kodak to improve their manufacturing capabilities because kodak would then have a near monopoly.

Gesture said:

Fortunately, for black and white we have Ilford and Kodak as major entities. Not sure if Foma is still fully functional. Bless, Ilford, in particular for keeping so many high quality products in standard production. Kodak B&W emulsions have been falling away.

But I still have a small stash of Ektapan sheet film and Verichrome Pan roll film!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Konica, long gone, had some fine emulsions, also.

I can reminisce about an era with family run neighborhood photo stores that had almost every chemical and photo paper can could imagine, even before the era of mail order.

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penguinman2020 said:

Gesture said:

Agfa Kodak Fuji major entities as far as color emulsions. Not good to lose any world class knowledge and manufacturing capacity. So, BAD.

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yeah i agree pretty much on what you said. It would be bad. Fujifilm has probably the best manufacturing capabilities of all the film players in the market today. Bar none i would even say. not even kodak. All products Fuji make are superbly built and well thought out.

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Although it’s now thought that Kodak are making film that Fuji are selling in their own packaging, and that Ilford are coating at least one of the Fuji B+W films

penguinman2020 said:

Its the little detail that counts. Like putting self-adhesive tape on the end of a 120 roll so you could just peel and be done with it. While you have to lick kodak's sticky tape (really kodak??). Fuji's 120 film spool/core is also insanely well made, it makes kodaks offering look crude in comparison.

When's the last time fujifilm has any defect? none that i can think of.

When's the last time Kodak has any defects? too many to count. Backing paper issues, mottling, the bad xtol batch fiasco, etc etc

I've even read Henning confirming that fujifilm has a near zero defect rate for the last decade or so. thats just incredible.

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Henning Serger in particular always seems very positive about Fuji, saying that they are knocked unfairly (and that it’s like Big Yellow Taxi “you won’t know what you've got ‘till it’s gone”)

penguinman2020 said:

Not to mention their films are actually really good. Their superia line-up is imo really underrated. (Fujicolor 100 and Superia xtra 400 are really good)

All this with comparable and even cheaper prices than the competition. The japanese really know their stuff.

Its just that Fuji is run like a corporation from the 80s. With old-school style management and no communication whatsoever.

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This is the big problem - Ilford have one person doing social media and are recruiting another, Kodak (Alaris) have someone who appears on Podcasts, YouTube etc, Fujifilm seem to think it’s 1985 and they just have to shift boxes of a handful of film to high street camera stores. Not to say that everyone else is perfect - Kodak in particular have been criticized for their delivery network, but at least they try and engage with their audience.

Its not that Fujifilm can’t communicate - obviously they’ve done that very well with Instax, which is probably the big photographic success story of the last 10 years in terms of sales increase. But that doesn’t seem to be replicated with their traditional film products.

penguinman2020 said:

To have this much manufacturing expertise gone would be a major blow to the film industry. If Fuji pulls out of film, there would be even less incentive for Kodak to improve their manufacturing capabilities because kodak would then have a near monopoly.

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Kodak seem to have issues mostly with finishing their film - they are making fresh master rolls of film for CineStill and Fuji

penguinman2020 said:

penguinman2020 said:

Fortunately, for black and white we have Ilford and Kodak as major entities. Not sure if Foma is still fully functional. Bless, Ilford, in particular for keeping so many high quality products in standard production. Kodak B&W emulsions have been falling away.

But I still have a small stash of Ektapan sheet film and Verichrome Pan roll film!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Konica, long gone, had some fine emulsions, also.

I can reminisce about an era with family run neighborhood photo stores that had almost every chemical and photo paper can could imagine, even before the era of mail order.

Click to expand...

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For years my wife shot Provia 400H for her watercolor portrait business and I copied the painting on to 4x5 64T for a record. I/we tried other films from Kodak but settled on Fujifilm as producing the best results for our purposes.

When local E6 was no longer available we changed to using digital (A850) in 2016 and I didn't make any more 4x5 backups. When clients wanted "giclee" copies of their watercolor paintings they had to have the painting copied rather than using our 4x5 64T transparency.

If I still shot color film, it would be on Velvia 50.

I grew up on Kodachrome. 64, and then when I got a suitable camera, 25. Yes, I knew Ektachrome was more neutral, but never liked it , except for portraiture. When Velvia came out, there was quite a bit of talk about it, so I did a couple comparisons, and never went back.

That said, I compared the last roll I shot to my then state-of-the-art D80. That's what made it my last roll.

I do shoot B&W, since I can develop that myself. If you asked me the same question about Ilford...

Overrank said:

With the recent well publicized price rises of Fujifilm films, and the regular discontinuing of films, I’ve heard a few people say that it would be better for the film community if Fujifilm pulled out of making film altogether (of course apart from Instax). I think the idea is that Fuji is a distraction and sends out the wrong message, with pulling films and blaming diminishing sales.

With the exception of the very cheap end I don’t really shoot Fujifilm films so it wouldn’t make any immediate difference to me if Fuji were too pull out of the market completely. But I’d be interested in what other people think - do you think Fujifilm should quit film manufacture altogether, or should it maintain a presence?

(I’m not including all the pro chemicals here - if the Fuji Hunt chemicals stopped being produced I suspect everyone shooting film would be affected one way or another.)

Click to expand...

I think losing FujiFilm would be a tragedy for analogue photography.