What is keeping Nikon from satisfying Z9 Demand?

I don't understand how you can say the site's numbers are "guesses". They are not.

People can draw unreasonable inferences from them, as you have pointed out,
Okay, it's the unreasonable inferences that I am referring to when I say 'guesses' or 'estimates'. I thought that was obvious.

Of course the numbers themselves are just data, and if they aren't used as evidence for conclusions that they can't support, as I said, then they obviously do no harm. But that's how people use them -- every time I see them cited, they are used as if they are reliable or, worse, exact indications of Nikon unit sales.

It wouldn't even bother me if people use them to muse about Nikon unit sales, as long as they clearly state the significant limitations of their conclusions. If somebody says, "based on the serial number database, it looks like Nikon may have sold a lot more D3 cameras than D4 cameras, but we don't really know by how much and it's a tentative conclusion at best," I'd be fine with that. I'd even agree that those numbers could be used that way for making tentative estimates, or tossing around ideas, or thought experiments, or whatever. I did exactly that kind of thing when I reasoned from D3 production figures to a guess about production totals, but labeled it, clearly, multiple times, as no more than a guess. Wouldn't bet more than a Belgian beer on it. (Although I would bet that beer, and like my chances.)

But that's not how it happens around here. Around here, conclusions about unit sales figures based on those serial numbers are presented as hard facts, all the time. And since a lot of people don't know where those numbers come from, they often assume they must be known facts. You see it all the time; somebody says, "Oh, I didn't know that. Well, if they only sold 10,000, no wonder they're not updating the Wizorama 1000. Wow, Nikon really screwed the pooch on the Wizorama."

We had a long thread on this forum just a few weeks ago about why Nikon has only sold about 15,000 Z5 cameras, including none -- zero -- in the U.S. and China (which together represent about 50% of the global camera market) in a year and a half. What???
unless you disbelieve all the owners who have supplied the serials, or you distrust the site's owner(s).
Well, this is actually a real issue. Obviously, it's easy to make errors in data entry. Do we think every serial number entered was done without any typos?

But beyond that, it's easy for me to imagine somebody going on that site and submitting false numbers intentionally. Could be a Nikon fan trying to make it look like Nikon sold more of Camera X than they really did. But it also could just be a destructive desire to screw with people. Human beings do that stuff all the time.

Now, I don't think these possibilities are worth wasting much thought on in this case, so I'm happy to ignore them, but they definitely exist. And people and organizations such as pollsters who collect statistically sound data for a living, on important topics, do try to account for them.
 
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I spoke with one of the top salespeople at my local camera store and they said that the new normal is to wait for any new camera or lens, regardless of brand. That's what they tell all of their customers.
Did you ask the Nikon top salesperson if he or she was primarily salaried or commissioned pay based?
This more or less means you don‘t believe that guy. I suggest you Just read the news. I work in the IT industry and the situations is dire. We are asked to provide a forecast for 2023 so we can reserve parts with suppliers.
 
Okay, so to appease everyone, Nikon could have announced the camera in October, and then not started shipping them until they had all the pre-orders built, probably some time 9 months later. During that time, there would be no supply, no buzz because they weren't in anybody's hands, and the other companies could have lapped them.

In addition they would be sitting on a massive inventory of cameras, and their pre-order numbers are skewed by the people who placed multiple orders with multiple shops (as one person on this thread mentioned, sending them a single camera will fulfill four pre-orders) so shops would be left with a large number of unsold units.

It does sound like it would make everybody happy (defined as being equally miserable), but doesn't sound like it would make the best business sense.
 
Okay, so to appease everyone, Nikon could have announced the camera in October, and then not started shipping them until they had all the pre-orders built, probably some time 9 months later. During that time, there would be no supply, no buzz because they weren't in anybody's hands, and the other companies could have lapped them.
Or Nikon could have quietly built up inventory without (pre)announcing anything. Meanwhile, the internet will go crazy that Sony has the A1, Canon has the R3 but Nikon has nothing to announce in months. And then all of a sudden, Nikon announces the Z9 and they already have stock piled 100K units, but perhaps a lot of Nikon users have already switched to Canon and Sony by then. Moreover, Nikon would be spending a lot of capital on parts and have to pay their factory workers, but they cannot sell any camera in stock to get some cash back. That sounds like a cashflow disaster to me.

One way or another, it is not unusual that a new camera (or new anything) has some hardware issues. Some of us still remember the D800 left AF issue from 10 years ago and then the D600 sensor oil spot issue, also from 2012. If Nikon already has 100K Z9 bodies manufactured and then they discover some hardware bug, they would be fixing 100K cameras or worse yet, have to trash 100K cameras and start over.
In addition they would be sitting on a massive inventory of cameras, and their pre-order numbers are skewed by the people who placed multiple orders with multiple shops (as one person on this thread mentioned, sending them a single camera will fulfill four pre-orders) so shops would be left with a large number of unsold units.
It does sound like it would make everybody happy (defined as being equally miserable), but doesn't sound like it would make the best business sense.
What Nikon could have done was to set the Z9 to $7000 or $6500 initially. Demand would have been much smaller, and then Nikon could gradually provide a $500 rebate, and then a $1000 rebate. That is something Nikon is already doing with certain lenses, as rebates get bigger and bigger over time. But of course such a scheme favors those with deep pockets and I am sure Nikon will be criticized.

Actually, I am sure Nikon will be criticized, regardless of what they do. :-D
 
One way or another, it is not unusual that a new camera (or new anything) has some hardware issues. Some of us still remember the D800 left AF issue from 10 years ago and then the D600 sensor oil spot issue, also from 2012. If Nikon already has 100K Z9 bodies manufactured and then they discover some hardware bug, they would be fixing 100K cameras or worse yet, have to trash 100K cameras and start over.
That's an important point as well.
 
I spoke with one of the top salespeople at my local camera store and they said that the new normal is to wait for any new camera or lens, regardless of brand. That's what they tell all of their customers.
Did you ask the Nikon top salesperson if he or she was primarily salaried or commissioned pay based?
This more or less means you don‘t believe that guy. I suggest you Just read the news. I work in the IT industry and the situations is dire. We are asked to provide a forecast for 2023 so we can reserve parts with suppliers.
Hmmm, guess it does imply that. As such, I would talk to other sales people before taking one guy at his word. In regards to "just read the news"; after seeing what some of news outlets have lied about or covered up; I don't trust news without verification.

I used to work in high performance sector of IT industry. Few of my peers did forecasting long before 2019; for two primary purposes: get best deals from vendors and projected costs for company budget. Me, I was lucky - I was hardware, software, and "root".
 
One way or another, it is not unusual that a new camera (or new anything) has some hardware issues.
True that. Along with firmware issues, software issues, and administration layout issues.
 
One alternative is This high res model would probably be in a Z7 III model and the Z6 III with 32 mp sensor with expeed 7 and optimised Z9 AF algorithms.

Nikon probably keep on producing Z9's on production line meeting all orders / demand before switching to new model.

Possibly we could see a Z50 MK 2, Z5 MK 2 in ZFC body followed by Z6 III and Z7 III towards end of 2022.
 
Coronavirus has reduced the people available for production for both companies like Nikon and for the companies providing key components. Nikon has parts made in Japan and in Thailand and in China and probably in Vietnam and if a single part is not availble then a camera model cannot be assembled and shipped.

What is surprising to me is how many people are willing to spend $6400 on a Z9 in the first place. I find the price to be a rip-off but then people are spending $80,000 on a pickup truck - go figure.
 
As we are now seeing the massive Production Shortfall of the Z9 does anybody know what is keeping Nikon from producing enough Z9 Bodies?

Is it the Mechanical bodies?

The Electronic Components (other material) sourcing - including the Stacked BSI CMOS Sensor or the Expeed7 Processor?

Production techniques?

Production Infrastructures?

Company Culture (Management)?

I just want Nikon to take my money and give me my Z9....any insight on the issue might help sooth my frustration!
It's the initial pent up demand itself that is keeping Nikon from meeting demand.

plain and simple.

They can only make so many
 
I officially dropped OUT of the race today. I simply got tired of the lies, misrepresentations and issues surrounding the Nikon shipments. Take into account I have $17k into another system currently which I wasn't terribly disappointed in in the first place. I simply wanted some hands on with the Z9 and new Z lenses to see if they were all that and a bag of chips. But I look at this this way. That like $15k that will remain in my bank account and the stresses of following this mess is going to be behind me instead of part of my life. I'm sure for many here it's more a game. Enjoy. I will wait to see what the R1 will bring to the table. At that point I suspect the Z9 would be available if desired so I can make a more salient decision which direction I need to take. In the meantime, my current camera and lenses are keeping things going.
 
Take into account I have $17k into another system currently which I wasn't terribly disappointed in in the first place.
Canon provides an excellent system - hard to find a compelling reason to add Nikon to it.
 
Take into account I have $17k into another system currently which I wasn't terribly disappointed in in the first place.
Canon provides an excellent system - hard to find a compelling reason to add Nikon to it.
I was very glad to see Nikon updating their tech as I was a Nikonian with several pro bodies for about 15 years. Before I step into their waters again however I feel it makes more financial as well as tech sense to await the notification of exactly what the R1 will bring to the table. If it's not going to completely trip my trigger, I won't jump into one of those that's for sure. By then I would expect that Nikon will have released at least 2 or more firmware updates bumping the capabilities of the Z9 up a notch.
 
Not a bad decision to make honestly. The supply-chain issues are impacting everything everywhere.

Even my biggest local soya bean drink chain is not spared.

Even my biggest local soya bean drink chain is not spared.

If you don't really need one now, not having to wait for one does calm down the nerves a bit. Just wait for the R1 to come out and compare.
 
Not a bad decision to make honestly. The supply-chain issues are impacting everything everywhere.

Even my biggest local soya bean drink chain is not spared.

Even my biggest local soya bean drink chain is not spared.

If you don't really need one now, not having to wait for one does calm down the nerves a bit. Just wait for the R1 to come out and compare.
That was exactly my thought. I got all wrapped up in the drama and it didn't do me any good, as I'm sure it's not for many an angry purchaser who isn't getting it. So I'll just hang loose and move on with my life and work and wait till things shake out. I would imagine in another year that might improve.



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Name the gear and I've probably owned it and used it.
 
There seems to be a decent supply of A1's out there. If I have to wait months for the Z9, I might as well switch to the Sony to get what I need right now.
Hmm are you sure this isn't more "Want" then "Need"? I went through the same thought but after delving deeply into the A1 and learning it's NOT as amazing as many want you to believe it is I backed away from that idea altogether. Nearly all the so-called 1sts that it supposedly brought to the table come with caveats, they are not without a price to pay. If a Z9 is what you truly wanted I say wait. I happen to have a full entourage of RF glass and a R5 so I'm fine waiting to see what happens with all the Bruha with the delivery debacle and all. Besides in my case I'm hoping to hold off long enough to get a peek at what the coming R1 will bring to the table. I suspect it will leapfrog them both. I elected to kick in what patience I have as I suspect it will pay off in the end. There's still a chance I'd grab a Z9 and several of their top Z glass, who knows. I'm just tired of stressing over it anyway. ;-)
 
Besides in my case I'm hoping to hold off long enough to get a peek at what the coming R1 will bring to the table. I suspect it will leapfrog them both.
Outside of the fact the rumours say the announcement is slated for 2023 the problem with leap frogging is they're both aimed at the same markets. You aren't likely to get a jump in resolution. That would mess up other things. For example the video offering. Maybe faster FPS? Maybe better AF? Newer WiFI standard?

That's the sort of stuff Canon is likely facing. What do you add without breaking something else?
 
What were the main issues that made you back off from a Sony A1?
I yearned for a larger body mirrorless for a very long time. Finally, Canon and Nikon heard me. Sony is stuck in their ways with their body which frankly for my taste is NOT the ergonomics I care for. Their menu still sucks. The EVF is far overrated for anything but playback. I still don't like Sony's color rendition out of the camera. Their service sucks as well.

Both Nikon and Canon have eclipsed them for my taste and usage. To me Sony is a "Electronics" company where Canon and Nikon are "Imaging" companies. Sony folks just love to argue and treat their precious brand as if it's something special beyond reality. That's fine and to be expected I suppose. That's all I have to say about that subject.
 

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