New Nikon Z9 review on PhotographyLife--Bird photography

Generally speaking, "feather detail" and "high-ISOs" is kind of an oxymoron.

The only way the Z9s will get to the level you want is with fewer megapixels.
If you don't have the high ISO ability you don't have a full on "pro" body.
I have or had all the "pro" bodies. I still don't like shooting birds at ISO's over 800. That's my subjective limit for a quality file with good feather detail. If others want to crank the ISO more power to them!

Now for other subjects, that a different matter all together.
 
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Indeed there are some nice pictures in this thread. Thank you for providing the link.
The framing, action, and pizzazz are all there.

However, when scrutinizing the feather detail, as a connoisseur, I don't think it's actually there. (And I know what truly great feather detail actually looks like.)

It could be the the fault of the 500 PF, I am not sure. However, when scrutinizing the detail, even the images taken with the 400/2.8 were pretty much "meh" to me.

Having not seen the original files, it's hard to know where the mediocrity is coming from. (Looking at the background processing,, etc., I think it may well be the author's sub- optimal post-processing skills are the cause of the "meh" in the overall presentation. (There is noise, even in simple backgrounds.)

That said, my concern remains the constant comparisons of the Z9 to "the Z7 II" in image quality.

As a connoisseur, I'm pretty particular about my "feather detail," I know what "great feather detail" actually looks like. I'm just not seeing it in any of these images. (I've not seen it in my own Z7 or Z7 II images, either — processed in the same way that brings me incredible micro-detail using the Z6 @ higher ISOs.)

In closing, I think it's great that Nikon has put out the Z9, it excels in any number of important ways. But until I see evidence that its high-ISO performance can at least compare to the Z6, let alone the D5, I myself am happy with what I have already ... and will remain hopeful for a Z9s ... which retains all of the great features of the new Z9, but with an emphasis on high-ISO performance.
From what I've seen the High ISO performance of the Z9 is equivalent to the Z 7ii but not to the Z 6ii however there is only a stop in it.

Until you get your Z9 you will never know for sure :-D
 
I have or had all the "pro" bodies. I still don't like shooting birds at ISO's over 800. That's my subjective limit for a quality file with good feather detail. If others want to crank the ISO more power to them!
I've had them to0 — and still have them :-)

Here is "feather detail" @ ISO 8000 ...

4d2ac3441d494671806ca45ec6f62222.jpg


Show me better @ ISO 800 :-D
Now for other subjects, that a different matter all together.
No problemo ...

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Please forgive: I use voice text, so there may be typos. Hopefully it still makes sense :)
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Generally speaking, "feather detail" and "high-ISOs" is kind of an oxymoron.

The only way the Z9s will get to the level you want is with fewer megapixels.
If you don't have the high ISO ability you don't have a full on "pro" body.
I have or had all the "pro" bodies. I still don't like shooting birds at ISO's over 800. That's my subjective limit for a quality file with good feather detail. If others want to crank the ISO more power to them!

Now for other subjects, that a different matter all together.
If you're shooting BIF in the best hours, morning or evening, iso 800 won't cut it. Anything at least 500mm is f4 or higher to start with.
 
Generally speaking, "feather detail" and "high-ISOs" is kind of an oxymoron.

The only way the Z9s will get to the level you want is with fewer megapixels.
If you don't have the high ISO ability you don't have a full on "pro" body.
I have or had all the "pro" bodies. I still don't like shooting birds at ISO's over 800. That's my subjective limit for a quality file with good feather detail. If others want to crank the ISO more power to them!

Now for other subjects, that a different matter all together.
If you're shooting BIF in the best hours, morning or evening, iso 800 won't cut it. Anything at least 500mm is f4 or higher to start with.
Yes, again.

We agree on most everything.
 
From what I've seen the High ISO performance of the Z9 is equivalent to the Z 7ii but not to the Z 6ii however there is only a stop in it.

Until you get your Z9 you will never know for sure :-D
Honestly, I won't be getting a Z9 anytime soon. I'm good where I'm at.

Maybe down the road, when all the specs are fully-identified.
 
I find it pretty difficult to get very fine feather detail with moving subjects as in the photo of the splashing goose. Sure, if your subject is at the shoreline just sitting there you can get fine detail. That shot looks cropped as well.
Not difficult for action ...

Even @ 6x the ISO ...

And even with a subject smaller than the goose's face ...

Even cropped 25%:

Z6 + 800 @ 12,800 ISO ...

Z6 + 800 @ 12,800 ISO ...
Not the best example to make your point. That bird may be "flying" but it's hovering in mid-air. Note the lack of feather detail on the wings. :D

I don't necessarily disagree with your point about the photos in the linked article. But a hovering hummingbird is not making the point against kbrk's comment.

--
Mike Dawson
 
Z6 + 800 @ 12,800 ISO ...

Z6 + 800 @ 12,800 ISO ...
Not the best example to make your point. That bird may be "flying" but it's hovering in mid-air. Note the lack of feather detail on the wings. :D
Um ... ahem ... to be "as polite as possible" ... common sense would tell anyone that the 1/200 shutter speed was responsible for the "blurry focus" in the wings ...
I don't necessarily disagree with your point about the photos in the linked article. But a hovering hummingbird is not making the point against kbrk's comment.
"Your agreement" plays no part in the creation my own convictions.

--
Please forgive: I use voice text, so there may be typos. Hopefully it still makes sense :)
~
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Facebook
Flickr
 
I have or had all the "pro" bodies. I still don't like shooting birds at ISO's over 800. That's my subjective limit for a quality file with good feather detail. If others want to crank the ISO more power to them!
I've had them to0 — and still have them :-)

Here is "feather detail" @ ISO 8000 ...

4d2ac3441d494671806ca45ec6f62222.jpg


Show me better @ ISO 800 :-D
Now for other subjects, that a different matter all together.
No problemo ...
I guess I'm getting old. I now remember a few shots I liked at higher ISOs.

That's a nice shot @8000!



bfe812bfc87f4f80b17cf89406d2efb2.jpg
 
Generally speaking, "feather detail" and "high-ISOs" is kind of an oxymoron.

The only way the Z9s will get to the level you want is with fewer megapixels.
If you don't have the high ISO ability you don't have a full on "pro" body.
I have or had all the "pro" bodies. I still don't like shooting birds at ISO's over 800. That's my subjective limit for a quality file with good feather detail. If others want to crank the ISO more power to them!

Now for other subjects, that a different matter all together.
If you're shooting BIF in the best hours, morning or evening, iso 800 won't cut it. Anything at least 500mm is f4 or higher to start with.
Yea I was more talking more about static birds. For BIF, if you can get the eye sharp, you have a workable image, and agree, ISOs can climb pretty fast especially with a 5.6!
 
I have or had all the "pro" bodies. I still don't like shooting birds at ISO's over 800. That's my subjective limit for a quality file with good feather detail. If others want to crank the ISO more power to them!
I've had them to0 — and still have them :-)

Here is "feather detail" @ ISO 8000 ...

4d2ac3441d494671806ca45ec6f62222.jpg


Show me better @ ISO 800 :-D
Now for other subjects, that a different matter all together.
No problemo ...
I am amazed at your ability making the most out of your Z 6. As a beginning BIF learner and owner of a Z 6ii myself, I can certainly learn a lot from you.

The above said, the scientific guy in me says that neither of your two examples provide good evidence to your claim as a comparison to the ones in the referenced article, as another poster already pointed out. If, on the other hand, you can present an example with a bird moving in high speed AND with great feather details, it will lend more convincing support to your claim. This is just an observation, not a value judgement.
 
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3461cc56b27540ac84691008f26dae84.jpg


This is my typical exposure triangle when I'm looking for neo-tropical migrants in the understory. Not all bird photography needs to be ISO extreme.
 
I have or had all the "pro" bodies. I still don't like shooting birds at ISO's over 800. That's my subjective limit for a quality file with good feather detail. If others want to crank the ISO more power to them!
I've had them to0 — and still have them :-)

Here is "feather detail" @ ISO 8000 ...

4d2ac3441d494671806ca45ec6f62222.jpg


Show me better @ ISO 800 :-D
Now for other subjects, that a different matter all together.
No problemo ...
The Z7II can acquit itself quite well. Slow shutter speeds help keep noise low:

Click on image to see full size

Z7II + 400 f2.8E FL VR + 1.4x TCIII, 1/200sec, f5, ISO7200

6b672800acc34134a6db61c34e7fcb0b.jpg


--
Lance B
https://www.flickr.com/photos/35949907@N02/?
http://www.pbase.com/lance_b
 
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Z6 + 800 @ 12,800 ISO ...

Z6 + 800 @ 12,800 ISO ...
Not the best example to make your point. That bird may be "flying" but it's hovering in mid-air. Note the lack of feather detail on the wings. :D
Um ... ahem ... to be "as polite as possible" ... common sense would tell anyone that the 1/200 shutter speed was responsible for the "blurry focus" in the wings ...
You apparently don’t recognize a joke when you see one. Even with a smiley face.
I don't necessarily disagree with your point about the photos in the linked article. But a hovering hummingbird is not making the point against kbrk's comment.
"Your agreement" plays no part in the creation my own convictions.
Couldn’t care less.

--
Mike Dawson
 
I have both the Z6ii & 7ii. I’m learning my new lens the 500pf f/5.6. On the Z7ii. I feel like I want to try it with the Z6ii, My ISO is getting to 8000 easy. And I hate when it happens. Working in Topaz is not my first choice. I also like the extra resolution of the Z7ii for more cropping.
 
@RazorSharp

Whats the reason you don’t NEED more resolution when your pushing hard? Isn’t the extra detail needed? Or is it because you’re trading it for noise?
 
I hope for you they do.

In my case the z9 is a d850 with AF on steroids and that is all I need. When I really need excellent IQ I stick to iso64 on my z7 and I make sure framing is good when I go above iso1600 to reduce cropping.
 
The Z7II can acquit itself quite well. Slow shutter speeds help keep noise low:

Click on image to see full size

Z7II + 400 f2.8E FL VR + 1.4x TCIII, 1/200sec, f5, ISO7200

6b672800acc34134a6db61c34e7fcb0b.jpg


Thanks, Lance.

It's good to see that the Z7 (II) can also perform well at higher ISO values (not just the Z6).
 
Not sure about your comments. The Z7ii files, when compared to Z6ii files at same final output size...
That mantra was mostly propagated by Tony Northrup and other YT clickbaiters and non wildlifers.

99.9% buy high-megapixel bodies for wildlife so they can crop more - especially birders - which throws the downsizing (non)argument out of the window.

I've shot with both D4s and D800E/810, and the former would destroy the latter in any situations; even in good light and less DR.

Everyone wants more mpx, but even with all the recent sensor tech. advancements, they're not there yet. And, as much as I like the Z9 (and hyped about it), I don't see it as a low light winner. That crown is most likely to go to the R3.
 

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