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Upgrading to A7RIV - Am I being too ambitious with my current lenses?

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ahaslett said:
ne beginner said:
WhistlerNorth said:
The website this list was taken from actually has a bigger list now but since so many new lenses not up to real time. Find he has new reviews though like the most recent Tamron 28-75mm F2.8 Di III VXD G2 A063 just announced.
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Thanks for pointing that out. I think this is latest :

https://sonyalpha.blog/2019/11/10/which-lenses-to-maximise-the-potential-of-the-sony-a7riv/

"Marc Alhadeff made this graph showing the best lenses to achieve maximum sharpness for your Sony A7rIV. Marc is known for making a ton of FE lens reviews and is one of the few that can therefore give you this complete overview!"
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Unless I misread, he only tested one copy of each lens. Where LensRentals has a multi copy test, it’s worth checking that.
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+1

I often agree with the results of Marc Alhadeff's site, but there are some lenses where I'm pretty convinced he tested a not so good sample.

Also, I disagree with the concept that 60mp "needs" a certain degree of lens sharpness, though Marc has moderated that stance a bit recently. Basically, in real world situations, you'd be very hard pressed to see any difference between results labelled "outstanding" and those labelled "excellent".
ahaslett said:
I’d look at what you want from each lens as well. Do you care about corners wide open or is bokeh more important. Does LoCA matter? How about flare and sun stars?
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+1 (or +2?)

That is a gripe i have with some very lauded Sony lenses (24-105 & 70-300), which I find have low microcontrast, leading to flat looking images.

As others have mentioned, Tamron, Sigma and Samyang (and maybe a few others) can be good alternatives to native Sony lenses, especially if you don't need state of the art AF & FPS speeds.
 
This kind of question always tickled me and I made a tongue in cheek thread about it years ago

Photo examples of sensors outresolving lenses?: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

What do people think will happen if they put a so-so lens on a high res camera? Spontaneous combustion?

OP your lenses are fine. I've used worse lenses on the A7R2 and the photos came out great. Enjoy your A7IV and dont let the gear addicts push their rationalizations onto you.
 
sportyaccordy said:
This kind of question always tickled me and I made a tongue in cheek thread about it years ago

Photo examples of sensors outresolving lenses?: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

What do people think will happen if they put a so-so lens on a high res camera? Spontaneous combustion?

OP your lenses are fine. I've used worse lenses on the A7R2 and the photos came out great. Enjoy your A7IV and dont let the gear addicts push their rationalizations onto you.
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Thank you. Read the thread and can see your point. ;-)

Rich

--
richardD700
website: http://www.pixels4u.co.uk
flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/richardd300/
Blog: https://pixels4ublog.wordpress.com
 
Last edited:
All of those lenses will do justice to your A7riv.

The 24-105 F4 is simply an outstanding one-in-all lens which yields excellent results with the A7riv.

I have the Sony 20.8, as well as the Laowa 12mm and the Samyang 18mm, so I sold my 16-35 F4.

I have the Samyang 35 2.8 and 45 1.8, as well as their 35 1.4 for low light.

And then a number of other excellent lenses which I won't brag about here ;)

Just get out there and shoot!

Cheers
 
sportyaccordy said:
This kind of question always tickled me and I made a tongue in cheek thread about it years ago

Photo examples of sensors outresolving lenses?: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

What do people think will happen if they put a so-so lens on a high res camera? Spontaneous combustion?

OP your lenses are fine. I've used worse lenses on the A7R2 and the photos came out great. Enjoy your A7IV and dont let the gear addicts push their rationalizations onto you.
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It’s very much like buying a high dollar stereo system, then using cheap speakers and expecting crisp dynamic sound out of it.
 
Corelli said:
All of those lenses will do justice to your A7riv.

The 24-105 F4 is simply an outstanding one-in-all lens which yields excellent results with the A7riv.

I have the Sony 20.8, as well as the Laowa 12mm and the Samyang 18mm, so I sold my 16-35 F4.

I have the Samyang 35 2.8 and 45 1.8, as well as their 35 1.4 for low light.

And then a number of other excellent lenses which I won't brag about here ;)

Just get out there and shoot!

Cheers
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Thank you.

I will look into your lens choices as there are few you mention which will fit nicely into my styles of photography.



Rich
 
SJK065 said:
sportyaccordy said:
This kind of question always tickled me and I made a tongue in cheek thread about it years ago

Photo examples of sensors outresolving lenses?: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

What do people think will happen if they put a so-so lens on a high res camera? Spontaneous combustion?

OP your lenses are fine. I've used worse lenses on the A7R2 and the photos came out great. Enjoy your A7IV and dont let the gear addicts push their rationalizations onto you.
Click to expand...
It’s very much like buying a high dollar stereo system, then using cheap speakers and expecting crisp dynamic sound out of it.
Click to expand...
No, it's not like that at all actually.
 
sportyaccordy said:
SJK065 said:
sportyaccordy said:
This kind of question always tickled me and I made a tongue in cheek thread about it years ago

Photo examples of sensors outresolving lenses?: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

What do people think will happen if they put a so-so lens on a high res camera? Spontaneous combustion?

OP your lenses are fine. I've used worse lenses on the A7R2 and the photos came out great. Enjoy your A7IV and dont let the gear addicts push their rationalizations onto you.
Click to expand...
It’s very much like buying a high dollar stereo system, then using cheap speakers and expecting crisp dynamic sound out of it.
Click to expand...
No, it's not like that at all actually.
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Yeah, SJK065 is correct regarding HIFI equipment and cheap speakers. But, on that note, todays lenses are pretty good. Many have flaws. Many do not. Like I said above. I saw photos with the A1 (sorry, I misquoted the camera in my first response as the A7C) and 28-60 kit lens on Fred Miranda and they were excellent. One would never have guessed it was the kit lens.
 
Having used both the A7Riv and Alpha 1 reasonably extensively over a period of months, and the A7Riii before that, my advice is to get an Alpha 1 instead.

The Alpha 1 is currently the very best camera you can buy today, if you can find one (they are out there).
 
AZheaven said:
sportyaccordy said:
SJK065 said:
sportyaccordy said:
This kind of question always tickled me and I made a tongue in cheek thread about it years ago

Photo examples of sensors outresolving lenses?: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

What do people think will happen if they put a so-so lens on a high res camera? Spontaneous combustion?

OP your lenses are fine. I've used worse lenses on the A7R2 and the photos came out great. Enjoy your A7IV and dont let the gear addicts push their rationalizations onto you.
Click to expand...
It’s very much like buying a high dollar stereo system, then using cheap speakers and expecting crisp dynamic sound out of it.
Click to expand...
No, it's not like that at all actually.
Click to expand...
Yeah, SJK065 is correct regarding HIFI equipment and cheap speakers.
Click to expand...
You can get great photos and IQ with a cheap lens on a high end camera. You can't get great SQ with cheap speakers.
 
AZheaven said:
richardD300 said:
Although a new adopter to Sony FF, I currently have the A7RIII and think it is a remarkable camera. However, I am interested in upgrading to the IV and my current lenses are the 16-35mm F4 ZA, 35mm f1.8 and the 24-105mm F4. So, not exactly the gold standard of Fuji lenses, but I’ve been more than happy with my results. I’m wondering how well would these lenses behave on the mark 4 with its vastly increased sensor size and specification!

Obviously, only I can answer the question whether I should afford the premium glass and I like to avoid doing that. My current lenses behave well enough on my Mk 3, so would I be being too ambitious in buying the Mk 4 and find myself disappointed with my current lenses?

Thank you - Rich
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This list is pretty much current and used by my pro Sony friends.

https://sonyalpha.blog/2019/11/10/which-lenses-to-maximise-the-potential-of-the-sony-a7riv/
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That's a great guide and having moved from a number of goods and very goods to the excellent category in the last few years, seems accurate for the lenses I've owned and traded up to.
 
sportyaccordy said:
AZheaven said:
sportyaccordy said:
SJK065 said:
sportyaccordy said:
This kind of question always tickled me and I made a tongue in cheek thread about it years ago

Photo examples of sensors outresolving lenses?: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

What do people think will happen if they put a so-so lens on a high res camera? Spontaneous combustion?

OP your lenses are fine. I've used worse lenses on the A7R2 and the photos came out great. Enjoy your A7IV and dont let the gear addicts push their rationalizations onto you.
Click to expand...
It’s very much like buying a high dollar stereo system, then using cheap speakers and expecting crisp dynamic sound out of it.
Click to expand...
No, it's not like that at all actually.
Click to expand...
Yeah, SJK065 is correct regarding HIFI equipment and cheap speakers.
Click to expand...
You can get great photos and IQ with a cheap lens on a high end camera. You can't get great SQ with cheap speakers.
Click to expand...
 
Thank you to everyone who gave time to share helpful advice. My mind is made up, I’m off to buy the A7R IV 😊

Rich
 
sportyaccordy said:
AZheaven said:
sportyaccordy said:
SJK065 said:
sportyaccordy said:
This kind of question always tickled me and I made a tongue in cheek thread about it years ago

Photo examples of sensors outresolving lenses?: Sony Alpha Full Frame E-mount Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

What do people think will happen if they put a so-so lens on a high res camera? Spontaneous combustion?

OP your lenses are fine. I've used worse lenses on the A7R2 and the photos came out great. Enjoy your A7IV and dont let the gear addicts push their rationalizations onto you.
Click to expand...
It’s very much like buying a high dollar stereo system, then using cheap speakers and expecting crisp dynamic sound out of it.
Click to expand...
No, it's not like that at all actually.
Click to expand...
Yeah, SJK065 is correct regarding HIFI equipment and cheap speakers.
Click to expand...
You can get great photos and IQ with a cheap lens on a high end camera. You can't get great SQ with cheap speakers.
Click to expand...
Exactly! That's what I said!
 
richardD300 said:
Lan said:
FWIW I use the Sony 24-105 f4 with my A7R4 and I'm very happy with the results. The resolution difference between the 42MP of your A7R3 and the 61MP of the A7R4 isn't as significant as you might think; don't get me wrong it's a jump, but it's only 17% in terms of x or y resolution. That means that generally if you're happy with the lens on an A7R3, you're still likely to be happy with it on an A7R4. I moved from the A7R2 to the A7R4, so I'm speaking from personal experience.

Here's an excellent post by Roger Cicala from the Lens Rentals Blog that explains how upgrading either the lens or the camera will increase the amount of information you capture:
Roger Cicala said:
Lots of people think that will be ‘whichever is less of the camera and lens.’ For example, my camera can resolve 61 megapixels, but my lens can only resolve 30 megapixels, so all I can see is 30 megapixels.

That’s not how it works. How it does work is very simple math: System MTF = Camera MTF x Lens MTF. MTF maxes at 1.0 because 1.0 is perfect. So let’s say my camera MTF is 0.7, and my lens MTF is 0.7, then my system MTF is 0.49 (Lens MTF x Camera MTF). This is actually a pretty reasonable system.

Now, let’s say I get a much better camera with much higher resolution; the camera MTF is 0.9. The system MTF with the same lens also increases: 0.7 X 0.9 = 0.63. On the other hand, I could do the same thing if I bought a much better lens and kept it on the same camera. The camera basically never ‘out resolves the lens.’

You could kind of get that ‘perceptual megapixel’ thing if either the lens (or the camera) really sucks. Let say we were using a crappy kit zoom lens with an MTF of 0.3. With the old camera; 0.3 X 0.7 =.21. Let’s spend a fortune on the newer, better camera, and we get 0.3 X 0.9 = 0.27. So our overall system MTF only went up a bit (0.07) because the lens really sucked. But if it had been just an average lens or a better lens (let say the MTF was 0.6 or 0.8), we’d have gotten a pretty similar improvement.

If you have a reasonably good lens and/or a reasonably good camera, upgrading either one upgrades your images. If you ask something like ‘is my camera going to out resolve this lens’ you sound silly.

Roger’s rule: If you have either a crappy lens or crappy camera, improve the crappy part first; you get more bang for your $.
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Thank you. Your experience with the 24-105mm is very useful. I think I understand Roger’s MTF piece, however I do struggle with the MTF concept, but in this instance understand what he’s explaining. Very useful. Rich
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there are not many crappy lenses for e-mount, this is a system that started with digital lenses, not many carry overs from the analog days.
 
Mr_Win said:
richardD300 said:
Lan said:
FWIW I use the Sony 24-105 f4 with my A7R4 and I'm very happy with the results. The resolution difference between the 42MP of your A7R3 and the 61MP of the A7R4 isn't as significant as you might think; don't get me wrong it's a jump, but it's only 17% in terms of x or y resolution. That means that generally if you're happy with the lens on an A7R3, you're still likely to be happy with it on an A7R4. I moved from the A7R2 to the A7R4, so I'm speaking from personal experience.

Here's an excellent post by Roger Cicala from the Lens Rentals Blog that explains how upgrading either the lens or the camera will increase the amount of information you capture:
Roger Cicala said:
Lots of people think that will be ‘whichever is less of the camera and lens.’ For example, my camera can resolve 61 megapixels, but my lens can only resolve 30 megapixels, so all I can see is 30 megapixels.

That’s not how it works. How it does work is very simple math: System MTF = Camera MTF x Lens MTF. MTF maxes at 1.0 because 1.0 is perfect. So let’s say my camera MTF is 0.7, and my lens MTF is 0.7, then my system MTF is 0.49 (Lens MTF x Camera MTF). This is actually a pretty reasonable system.

Now, let’s say I get a much better camera with much higher resolution; the camera MTF is 0.9. The system MTF with the same lens also increases: 0.7 X 0.9 = 0.63. On the other hand, I could do the same thing if I bought a much better lens and kept it on the same camera. The camera basically never ‘out resolves the lens.’

You could kind of get that ‘perceptual megapixel’ thing if either the lens (or the camera) really sucks. Let say we were using a crappy kit zoom lens with an MTF of 0.3. With the old camera; 0.3 X 0.7 =.21. Let’s spend a fortune on the newer, better camera, and we get 0.3 X 0.9 = 0.27. So our overall system MTF only went up a bit (0.07) because the lens really sucked. But if it had been just an average lens or a better lens (let say the MTF was 0.6 or 0.8), we’d have gotten a pretty similar improvement.

If you have a reasonably good lens and/or a reasonably good camera, upgrading either one upgrades your images. If you ask something like ‘is my camera going to out resolve this lens’ you sound silly.

Roger’s rule: If you have either a crappy lens or crappy camera, improve the crappy part first; you get more bang for your $.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Thank you. Your experience with the 24-105mm is very useful. I think I understand Roger’s MTF piece, however I do struggle with the MTF concept, but in this instance understand what he’s explaining. Very useful. Rich
Click to expand...
there are not many crappy lenses for e-mount, this is a system that started with digital lenses, not many carry overs from the analog days.
Click to expand...
I can think of a few. Maybe not full on crappy, but in the range of crappy to not worth buying IMO. More than I can count on one hand.
 
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