In fairness: 10D AF compared to other (D)SLRs?

DavidP #28649 · Nov 3, 2003

Clearly this is a case of "user error".

Though the "user" in question is the Canon tech, not you. LOL.

Good luck on the second go 'round.

Ira Blumberg said:
The camera is currently en route to Canon for its SECOND try at
fixing the AF.

--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!

Godfrey · Nov 3, 2003

Horsepucky. Unless these so-called SLR users you speak of are actually Point and Shoot users operating an SLR as a point and shoot.

Godfrey

DavidP said:
Godfrey said:

I've been shooting with SLRs for 37 years, David.

Click to expand...

Steven · Nov 3, 2003

Yes it is sad. I went thru 3 10D's till I got a good one. I almost stopped at the second one. But I am glad I did not. 10D is a great camera.

Frank Nichols said:
Not sure if antedotal reports are of any value - for every good
one, someone will come up with a bad one...

Frank

Pearl Rider said:

Somebody tries to post their experiences (which are positive) with
the 10D and David nails it. John knows other 10D users personally
and none of them have reported any problems with their cameras. Of
course, David has to toss someone with a KNOWN problem at him to
counter his post.
We ALL know that there's people on this forum who have a defective
camera but it's interesting to me that many people have reported
that they met others 10D owners in their immediate area and report
no focus problems with their camera.
I report here that my local camera store hasn't had any of the 10Ds
sold returned for any focus problems and he counters that with
"they don't sell many of them" which, of course, he doesn't have a
clue as to HOW many they've sold. I couldn't state the number
either but they usually got them in lots of 10 and they went out
the door usually within 2 days. They've been through a lot of lots
too. Like I've said before, the positive stuff is being purposely
ignored or countered in favor or perpetuating the negative image of
the 10D. This is sad, IMHO, and shows that some people claim to be
in pursuit of "the truth" but they really aren't. They're trying to
foist THEIR "truth" on others.

Click to expand...

--
To err is human, to really screw things up requires a computer.

--
Steve
10D and Sigma SD-9
Olympus C-2100
L fever high

DavidP #28649 · Nov 3, 2003

It wouldn't be so bad if there were only 1 or 2 people who reported having to go through multiple bodies / lenses / repair trips / etc to get the problem fixed.

But there's more than just a few. Which is a bit baffling when it's claimed that there's only a 2% defect rate. The 2% seems like a reasonable estimate until you start getting repeat failures. Although, that may largely be a function of the complex interaction of lenses and bodies.

The other sad part is that after a few attempts at getting it fixed, you begin to wonder if it isn't all "in your head" or if you're just "too picky". Even though you KNOW it can't be, and that you have a problem that just seems insurmountable.

Steven said:
Yes it is sad. I went thru 3 10D's till I got a good one. I almost
stopped at the second one. But I am glad I did not. 10D is a great
camera.

--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!

Daniel Jackson · Nov 3, 2003

Ira Blumberg said:
Daniel Jackson said:

Ira Blumberg said:

People are reporting 10Ds that focus really well with the seemingly
problematic 24-70L. I am also encouraged that some people have
reported vast improvements in AF performance after getting the
right tech at Canon service to work on their cameras. I hope that
my camera falls into the hands of such a tech this time out.

I really love my 10D except for the AF issue. Unfortunately after
taking 60+ shots at a recent outing of which less than 15% were in
sharp focus (shooting at between 1/250th and 1/500th to minimize
camera movement effects), I have started to lack faith in the
camera which makes me more hesitant to use it.

Ira

Click to expand...

Simple solution, send it to Canon to have it fixed. Camera comes
back fixed you have your faith back. No big deal.

--
Scotty, I need more power! I'm givin it all she's got Jim!
http://www.pbase.com/daniel_jackson/root
Pbase supporter

Click to expand...

Sorry, must have missed it. If it were me and if you still have problems after try #2 I would ask for another camera. Good luck.
--
Scotty, I need more power! I'm givin it all she's got Jim!
http://www.pbase.com/daniel_jackson/root
Pbase supporter

Adam2 · Nov 3, 2003

DavidP said:
It wouldn't be so bad if there were only 1 or 2 people who reported
having to go through multiple bodies / lenses / repair trips / etc
to get the problem fixed.

But there's more than just a few. Which is a bit baffling when
it's claimed that there's only a 2% defect rate. The 2% seems
like a reasonable estimate until you start getting repeat failures.
Although, that may largely be a function of the complex interaction
of lenses and bodies.

The other sad part is that after a few attempts at getting it
fixed, you begin to wonder if it isn't all "in your head" or if
you're just "too picky". Even though you KNOW it can't be, and
that you have a problem that just seems insurmountable.

PERSPECTIVE

Rather than saying that one is "too picky", I'd like to think that with evolution of our technology we can better assess our tools. Just, think less than 20 years ago, the first AF cameras came on the scene. I had Minolta gear then and bought a Maxxum. Cool! No more squinting trying to line up the silly little split dot in the viewfinder. How did I ever take an in-focus picture before buying that camera?

I remember prints from that camera that at 3 x 5 appeared fine yet they turned out to be a bit blurry at greater enlargement. Must be due to a little hand shake, I used to think. Now, I realize that many of those OOF shots were probably due to AF design limitations and inherent inaccuracies in the camera/lens system.

Today, we can shoot pictures and nearly instantaneously enlarge them hundreds of times on a monitor and wonder why they occasionally appear blurry (now that my 10D IS fixed, this is no longer a problem). We hypothesize and measurbate, but our newfound ability to instantaneously analyze things increases our expectations as well.

On that note, I think I'll throw the slides back into the closet.

Steven · Nov 3, 2003

The 3rd 10D is a Samy's Refurb.

DavidP said:
But there's more than just a few. Which is a bit baffling when
it's claimed that there's only a 2% defect rate. The 2% seems
like a reasonable estimate until you start getting repeat failures.
Although, that may largely be a function of the complex interaction
of lenses and bodies.

The other sad part is that after a few attempts at getting it
fixed, you begin to wonder if it isn't all "in your head" or if
you're just "too picky". Even though you KNOW it can't be, and
that you have a problem that just seems insurmountable.

Steven said:

Yes it is sad. I went thru 3 10D's till I got a good one. I almost
stopped at the second one. But I am glad I did not. 10D is a great
camera.

Click to expand...

--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!

--
Steve
10D and Sigma SD-9
Olympus C-2100
L fever high

Pearl Rider · Nov 3, 2003

Frank Nichols said:
Friend of mine at work bought a 10D last week on my recommendation.
We tried the 24-70 on it and it back focuses. He isn't going to
bother exchanging the camera, he is just going to send it into
Canon - nice feelign after spending $3K.

Not sure if antedotal reports are of any value - for every good
one, someone will come up with a bad one...

Frank

How it is that anyone who's already down on the 10D will continue to only find other problem 10Ds while those who have had no problems with theirs, don't usually find another bad one. Weird.

Pearl Rider · Nov 3, 2003

DavidP said:
It wouldn't be so bad if there were only 1 or 2 people who reported
having to go through multiple bodies / lenses / repair trips / etc
to get the problem fixed.

But there's more than just a few. Which is a bit baffling when
it's claimed that there's only a 2% defect rate. The 2% seems
like a reasonable estimate until you start getting repeat failures.
Although, that may largely be a function of the complex interaction
of lenses and bodies.

The other sad part is that after a few attempts at getting it
fixed, you begin to wonder if it isn't all "in your head" or if
you're just "too picky". Even though you KNOW it can't be, and
that you have a problem that just seems insurmountable.

But there again these people, like you, tend to ignore the good reports only to "focus" on the bad and make it seem larger than it really is. Actually, for all the "bad" reports, they're a lot more good ones and probably more than that which aren't even reported. People will make more noise when they're angry than when they're happy.

Pearl Rider · Nov 3, 2003

See how the complainers come out of the woodwork to put the negative spin on what they perceive to counter their experience?

Frank Nichols · Nov 3, 2003

I can't, seems interesting to me with all the reports of multiple exchanges by some people, multiple trips to Canon my others, and then multiple people reporting knowing numerous people with NO problems.

I now know personally 5 peoples (counting me) that own 10D's - of them 2 have focus issues - me and the one mentioned below.

Is that a good ratio or bad - I don't think it means anything - it is purely ancedotal and meaningless.

Frank

Pearl Rider said:
Frank Nichols said:

Friend of mine at work bought a 10D last week on my recommendation.
We tried the 24-70 on it and it back focuses. He isn't going to
bother exchanging the camera, he is just going to send it into
Canon - nice feelign after spending $3K.

Not sure if antedotal reports are of any value - for every good
one, someone will come up with a bad one...

Frank

Click to expand...

How it is that anyone who's already down on the 10D will continue
to only find other problem 10Ds while those who have had no
problems with theirs, don't usually find another bad one. Weird.

--
To err is human, to really screw things up requires a computer.

Pearl Rider · Nov 3, 2003

Frank Nichols said:
I can't, seems interesting to me with all the reports of multiple
exchanges by some people, multiple trips to Canon my others, and
then multiple people reporting knowing numerous people with NO
problems.

SOME people got defective 10Ds. It appears that many more didn't. The ones who DID get bad 10Ds and are most vocal about it here ALWAYS seem to find others with the same problem OR can find a salesman or someone similar with stories which support their "cause" here.

Frank Nichols said:
I now know personally 5 peoples (counting me) that own 10D's - of
them 2 have focus issues - me and the one mentioned below.

You didn't or rarely ever mention the ones with the good 10Ds though.

Frank Nichols said:
Is that a good ratio or bad - I don't think it means anything - it
is purely ancedotal and meaningless.

Only when the BAD ones are mentioned and the GOOD ones are purposely not mentioned does it mean anything. It means that the "facts" are being purposely slanted.

Frank Nichols · Nov 3, 2003

Everywhere you look you see agendas and "causes". I simply see people with opinions.

Pearl Rider said:
Frank Nichols said:

I can't, seems interesting to me with all the reports of multiple
exchanges by some people, multiple trips to Canon my others, and
then multiple people reporting knowing numerous people with NO
problems.

Click to expand...

SOME people got defective 10Ds. It appears that many more didn't.
The ones who DID get bad 10Ds and are most vocal about it here
ALWAYS seem to find others with the same problem OR can find a
salesman or someone similar with stories which support their
"cause" here.

Pearl Rider said:
Pearl Rider said:

I now know personally 5 peoples (counting me) that own 10D's - of
them 2 have focus issues - me and the one mentioned below.

Click to expand...

You didn't or rarely ever mention the ones with the good 10Ds though.

I didn't feel the need to talk about them, since they are all three active members here on dpr and could express their own opinions about their 10D's. (And they have.)

Pearl Rider said:
Pearl Rider said:

Is that a good ratio or bad - I don't think it means anything - it
is purely ancedotal and meaningless.

Click to expand...

Only when the BAD ones are mentioned and the GOOD ones are
purposely not mentioned does it mean anything. It means that the
"facts" are being purposely slanted.

Again, you state your "opinion" that some are "purposely" not mentioned. Always a conspiracy or a cause or agenda with you.

Frank

--
To err is human, to really screw things up requires a computer.

weirdrob · Nov 3, 2003

mplkn said:
When I was shooting through a TLR or a rangefinder 35 most of the
time, I always used to tell folks that motor winders were the
result of a conspiracy between the film manufacturers and the
battery companies. The idea being that if you want to get the
perfect picture of Michael Jordan stuffing the ball, you'd want 6
fps rather than a measely 3 fps motor winder.

But see, the trouble is that even at 6 fps, that darned shutter is
closed most of the time - so how are you EVER going to get the
perfect slam-dunk shot?

Hah! says I. Clear your mind, pre-focus on the rim, channel
Cartier-Bresson, and squeeze off the shot at the critical moment!

Same thing goes for autofocus. Nice to have, nice when it works,
nicest of all that we have SLRs here and are viewing through the
taking lens, fer cryin' out loud...

Ain't nobody going to make me squeeze off that shot when
everything's not right - I'll have to make that mistake all by
myself...

'Course, I'm not relying on it for bread & butter. If I was than
maybe I'd feel differently about autofocus & fps & so forth.

I've got the 24-70 because I just love looking through that glass.
Compared to my C330 the 10d feels nimble and light on its feet, and
compared to my M3 DS with a 50 Summicron that never left it, the
24-70 feels like zoom heaven....

If the camera doesn't focus right, than you focus it - if you've
got the time.

If you haven't got the time, well, it could be the wrong instrument
for your needs, or you might try slowing down just a little, to
take fewer, better shots - but only if that suits your needs.

And, as always, I must caveat my emptor by saying, what do I know?

YMMV (Your Mileage May Vary)

Enjoy and be well!

Michael Pelikan

Godfrey said:

I do exercise manual focus and manual focus overrides for difficult
focusing situations. I mean, that's why Canon provides them, right?

Godfrey

FretNoMore said:

Disregarding the specific cases of malfunctioning cameras that need
to be calibrated by Canon, I'm getting the impression from all the
focus discussion here that some people claim the 10D has unusually
big problems. I have not experienced this myself; I have had issues
with combinations of my 10D and 3rd party lenses, something you
can't really blame Canon for though.

I'd like to know how you feel the 10D compares to other Canon
(D)SLRs, and if it's better or worse than other brand's (D)SLRs.
I'd find it a bit unfair to bash the 10D so relentlessly if it is
as good - or bad - as any other similar camera.

I find the AF technology is nothing short of magic, and if this is
the state-of-the-art then this is what we'll have to live with, and
learn how to use, at least for now. Bashing it here can't possibly
bring about better technology quicker, I'm sure Canon and the other
makers have their inventors working full speed as it is to be first
with the next generation AF.

-Anders

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

So true, Mr. Pelikan.

Also, maybe it requires experience with TLR, folders, 4x5's or other such cameras to not only appreciate the advantages of AE and AF, but to fully understand the shortfalls of automation. My 10D can mis-focus and/or blow the exposure...but it is still my decision to push the shutter.

To answer the original post:
EOS 3...faster and more accurate
EOS 10 and 10s...slower
600 (630)...slower
Rebel G...slower
Kiss (Rebel XS QD or 500QD)...slower

The opinions for all bodies except to EOS 3 and 10s are VERY subjective, since I have not actually shot those bodies since getting the 10D. I've sold the 10, 600, and Kiss...but might drag out the Rebel G and one of the 10s bodies and do some unscientific tests. You know, point and focus and get a feel for what it takes to acquire a good focus.

FWIW, I bought the 3 because the 10s focus was too slow with my 300/4 IS L lens and a 1.4x II. The 3 is wonderful. I wish the 10D was as good...oh well.
--
Rob Wierman
http://www.pbase.com/weirdrob/root

DavidP #28649 · Nov 3, 2003

It might have something to do with what lenses you own.

Frank Nichols said:
I can't, seems interesting to me with all the reports of multiple
exchanges by some people, multiple trips to Canon my others, and
then multiple people reporting knowing numerous people with NO
problems.

I now know personally 5 peoples (counting me) that own 10D's - of
them 2 have focus issues - me and the one mentioned below.

Is that a good ratio or bad - I don't think it means anything - it
is purely ancedotal and meaningless.

--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!

Adam2 · Nov 3, 2003

Do you mean high quality, accurate ones like those that I own? Interestingly, when I sent my 10D and a couple of my lenses in for calibration - the lenses were within specs but the camera wasn't!

DavidP said:
Frank Nichols said:

I can't, seems interesting to me with all the reports of multiple
exchanges by some people, multiple trips to Canon my others, and
then multiple people reporting knowing numerous people with NO
problems.

I now know personally 5 peoples (counting me) that own 10D's - of
them 2 have focus issues - me and the one mentioned below.

Is that a good ratio or bad - I don't think it means anything - it
is purely ancedotal and meaningless.

Click to expand...

--
http://www.outboundmusic.com
Your link to independent music!

Jonathan Lefcourt · Nov 3, 2003

Your posts have become such a blur to me, they all say the exact same thing. Do you think that by repeating it over and over and over it's going to change what we have to say about our 10D experiences? Like Dorothy in the Wizard of Oz, do you think that you are going to be brought home to Kansas, safe and sound in your 10D bliss?. It was only a dream Pearl, none of this ever happened to any of us........ Hey look, it's Zeke and Hunk and Hickory and Old Uncle Henry.....

Maybe it wasn't a dream. hahahahahahahahaahahahahah

JL

Pearl Rider said:
Frank Nichols said:

I can't, seems interesting to me with all the reports of multiple
exchanges by some people, multiple trips to Canon my others, and
then multiple people reporting knowing numerous people with NO
problems.

Click to expand...

SOME people got defective 10Ds. It appears that many more didn't.
The ones who DID get bad 10Ds and are most vocal about it here
ALWAYS seem to find others with the same problem OR can find a
salesman or someone similar with stories which support their
"cause" here.

Pearl Rider said:

I now know personally 5 peoples (counting me) that own 10D's - of
them 2 have focus issues - me and the one mentioned below.

Click to expand...

You didn't or rarely ever mention the ones with the good 10Ds though.

Pearl Rider said:

Is that a good ratio or bad - I don't think it means anything - it
is purely ancedotal and meaningless.

Click to expand...

Only when the BAD ones are mentioned and the GOOD ones are
purposely not mentioned does it mean anything. It means that the
"facts" are being purposely slanted.

--
Jonathan Lefcourt
Fall Colors-Vermont 2003 http://www.pbase.com/jlefcourt/vermont_fall_2003

Negative287 · Nov 3, 2003

It's probably a hair faster then the D100 or S2 but in my experience it isn't as accurate as the D100. I can't speak for any other DSLR out there because I haven't used the others.

FretNoMore said:
Disregarding the specific cases of malfunctioning cameras that need
to be calibrated by Canon, I'm getting the impression from all the
focus discussion here that some people claim the 10D has unusually
big problems. I have not experienced this myself; I have had issues
with combinations of my 10D and 3rd party lenses, something you
can't really blame Canon for though.

I'd like to know how you feel the 10D compares to other Canon
(D)SLRs, and if it's better or worse than other brand's (D)SLRs.
I'd find it a bit unfair to bash the 10D so relentlessly if it is
as good - or bad - as any other similar camera.

I find the AF technology is nothing short of magic, and if this is
the state-of-the-art then this is what we'll have to live with, and
learn how to use, at least for now. Bashing it here can't possibly
bring about better technology quicker, I'm sure Canon and the other
makers have their inventors working full speed as it is to be first
with the next generation AF.

-Anders

--

'The only real currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with each other when we're being uncool.' -- Cameron Crowe

Jack G Heckler · Nov 3, 2003

Pearl Rider said:
Ravioli said:

First thing I did on my 10D was change it to centre point focus.
When I first got my 50E I fiddled with the eye controlled focus for
a while, but then turned it off and used centre point focus there
too.
I like to know exactly what I am focusing on. I focus and reframe
the shot if I have to.

Click to expand...

Same here.

JamesMor · Nov 3, 2003

I cannot believe that I actually agree with something DavidP writes...but I find that the focus screen on most AF SLRS just STINK. Compare the focus screen on a 35mm SLR to the viewfinder on a rangefinder like the Leica M6 or the Mamiya 7 II...heck, compare it to a simple Pentax K1000.

The simple truth is that AF SLRS were never designed for manual focusing. I am not saying that it cannot be done. It can - and it can be done well. It is just not as easy as it is to focus as with other cameras.

-JM

Godfrey said:
Godfrey

DavidP said:

Godfrey said:

I've been shooting with SLRs for 37 years, David.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

In fairness: 10D AF compared to other (D)SLRs?

Forum Pro

Forum Pro

Steven

Guest

Forum Pro

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Steven

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Leading Member

Forum Pro

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Negative287

Guest

Senior Member

Veteran Member

Similar threads

Keyboard shortcuts