Started 8 months ago | Discussions thread
Dave Veteran Member • Posts: 6,034
Re: R6

Distinctly Average wrote:

Klaus dk wrote:

Distinctly Average wrote:

Klaus dk wrote:

Dave wrote:

I accept that APS-C was created to meet price/profitability targets. What then explains the creation of the very capable 7D using the format? Surely other alternatives existed when the decision was made.

The decision was probably made somewhere in the beginning of 2008, when an 18Mp pro grade APS-C was a real show of development and manufacturing force with great marketing potential. Those who couldn't afford a 5D II or a 1Dsomething could have everything but the FF sensor, and the birders even got the crop factor reach advantage with plenty of pixels on subject. In those days, 18Mp was huge.

Since then, manufacturers have cleverly marketed FF as the only acceptable sensor size for pros and enthusiasts, so it's no wonder that Canon is now relegating APS-C to the consumer level M series. I doubt there's a big enough market for APS-C DSLRs.


I’m not so sure. For a given pixel density APS-C still comes in quite a bit cheaper. More sensors per wafer, less wafer wasted and more importantly, less memory and processing. The above is considering as 32mp aps-c vs 83mp full frame. It still makes a large difference in cost. If M got dropped then that would allow a single line also reducing manufacturer costs.

As for market, the 90D and 77D still sell very well according to my local dealer. So do crop Fuji and Sony models with both having some decent current models and predicted to do more.
Whether we do see crop has yet to be seen, but a recent interview with a Canon exec strongly hinted at one.

It is certainly an interesting as well as frustrating time. I am looking forward to watching it develop. We are still in the very early stages.

I was trying to answer Dave's question "What then explains the creation of the very capable 7D using the format?".

I'm not contesting that APS-C sensors are cheaper.

I just believe Canon's market segmentation is working and that the market is different today, than when the 7D was conceived.

As somebody else wrote, Canon only have so much production capacity, so why use it on lower profit products when they can't even fill the demand for higher profit products?

AFAIK, neither Sony nor Fuji make APS-C DSLRs, so they're competing with the Canon M-line, which Canon clearly sees as entry to mid level products There are no EF-M lenses to match a 7D level MILC.

The only thing constant in life is change, so we'll see.

Thing is, the bodies are there to sell accessories. I would bet that there is not a huge markup on bodies at all, but there is on lenses, batteries and more. A single body can sell multiple accessories and continue to do so over its life. The move to RF will drive sales and the more choice consumers have in bodies, the more lenses and batteries Canon will sell. So releasing an R5 body with a crop sensor would almost certainly not cost a huge amount to develop, but would drive sales.

A dealer once told me that Canon made more profit from selling three spare batteries to 1Dx owners than they made from selling the 1Dx, which I quite believe. Add a few lenses and other bits and you soon see where the money is made. It is different at the bottom end where cheap has to be cheap. It shows. The mid ground really is thriving and there is still money to be made there from enthusiasts who will probably grasp the RF system with both hands. Here in the UK there are plenty of retired blokes with lots of spare cash waiting the buy, but they are also of an age where lugging around a 600mm will fill them full of dread. The M system for them is a no go as there are simply not the accessories to go with it, plus many still have that must by the BMW/Merc mentality and see M as a poor mans system. So here at least, a lot of money is still being spend in that community and my understanding is that picture is painted around the world. Time will tell of course, but I am enjoying seeing it develop and all the discussions around it.

The car analogy is always fun. I wonder how enthusiasts are reacting to Canon's f/11 RF 600mm and 800mm lenses. Not L and that narrow aperture.  But lightweight and apparently fast-focusing and sharp.  How would I like one of them on an R6 compared to, say, a 400mm f/5/6 on my 80D?  Something I may feel compelled to investigate.


 Dave's gear list:Dave's gear list
Canon EOS 80D Canon EF 135mm F2L USM Canon EF-S 17-55mm f/2.8 IS USM Canon EF 100mm F2.8L Macro IS USM Canon EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS USM +10 more
Post (hide subjects) Posted by
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum PPrevious NNext WNext unread UUpvote SSubscribe RReply QQuote BBookmark MMy threads
Color scheme? Blue / Yellow