Best smartphone camera for pro photographers

cjfeola · Jul 9, 2021

Hi,

What's the best smartphone camera for pro/enthusiast photographers? I'm looking through the Sony Xperia 1 iii reviews, and everyone is using the Basic setup and auto everything, and then saying a Samsung Galaxy 21 Ultra is better on auto everything for the average person. Which I just don't care about.

What Pro setups give you the most control? The best results for someone willing to work?

For reference, my DD is an Olympus Pen-F, and my "serious" kit is a Sony A7rii and a Pentax K70.

Thanks!

Cjf

Patrick T. Kelly · Jul 9, 2021

I am not a professional photographer but I've enjoyed taking photographs since 1962. I have the Sony Xperia 5 II and my only complaint is the screen brightness. It isn't. The user interface is, in my opinion, stellar.

Stairwell in Oaxaca

Low clouds just before dawn.

--
Patrick T. Kelly
Oaxaca, Mexico

Jostian · Jul 9, 2021

cjfeola said:
Hi,

What's the best smartphone camera for pro/enthusiast photographers? I'm looking through the Sony Xperia 1 iii reviews, and everyone is using the Basic setup and auto everything, and then saying a Samsung Galaxy 21 Ultra is better on auto everything for the average person. Which I just don't care about.

What Pro setups give you the most control? The best results for someone willing to work?

For reference, my DD is an Olympus Pen-F, and my "serious" kit is a Sony A7rii and a Pentax K70.

Thanks!

Cjf

Are you asking about UI and control in app or output quality (jpeg & RAW)?

Jostian · Jul 9, 2021

Jostian said:
cjfeola said:

Hi,

What's the best smartphone camera for pro/enthusiast photographers? I'm looking through the Sony Xperia 1 iii reviews, and everyone is using the Basic setup and auto everything, and then saying a Samsung Galaxy 21 Ultra is better on auto everything for the average person. Which I just don't care about.

What Pro setups give you the most control? The best results for someone willing to work?

For reference, my DD is an Olympus Pen-F, and my "serious" kit is a Sony A7rii and a Pentax K70.

Thanks!

Cjf

Click to expand...

Are you asking about UI and control in app or output quality (jpeg & RAW)?

Max5150 · Jul 9, 2021

I tend to use my S21ULTRA in normal photo mode. Its okay, but I havent used many different phone cameras. I would much rather use my Olympus m43 rig.

cjfeola · Jul 9, 2021

Jostian said:
Jostian wrote

Jostian said:
Are you asking about UI and control in app or output quality (jpeg & RAW)?

That's a great question. I spent the 80s and 90s shooting Tri-X for newspapers as a photojournalist, so I'm an old Zone System guy. I want a camera that can be used to capture the photos I visualize in my head. With the Sony A7rii and the Pentax K70, that means shooting RAW and processing. With the Olympus Pen-F, that means setting up my profiles carefully in advance. I show a lot of photos visually, and print ones I really like on my Epson Surecolor 800, which prints up to 17"x22". I don't care about pixel-peeping at all. So I want a phone that gives the results I want, not one that locks me into someone else's vision.

I hope that helps.

Cjf

I2K4 · Jul 10, 2021

If not aware, Sony has been moving gradually in the direction of better integration of its phones with its cameras and possibly other electronics products. I've long thought Sony ought to have been the world's second Apple, but the administrative silos and internal empires it builds its diverse products in have prevented development of an integrted "ecosystem", while the individual products are often among the best. That might be slowly changing.

Jostian · Jul 10, 2021

This is why I love Huawei, see these shots (from main and tele cameras) these are the jpegs (direct conversion from the RAW file) when using Pro mode, no over-processing, or smearing or heavy NR etc, very natural output, UWA camera does exactly the same.

--
Jostian

J's Space…. Bits n Pieces for Life!

Technology, Opinion, Sustainability, Poetry & some Photography

jostian.blogspot.com

Max5150 · Jul 10, 2021

They are nice shots. A little better than my S21Ultra maybe. But my phone is still my mobile communication device and computer. I am heavily dependent on Google services. Does Huawei offer Google services, or is the only provision browser based?

fuego6 · Jul 11, 2021

new mi10ultra now that it is fully set up!

Jostian · Jul 11, 2021

Max5150 said:
They are nice shots. A little better than my S21Ultra maybe. But my phone is still my mobile communication device and computer. I am heavily dependent on Google services. Does Huawei offer Google services, or is the only provision browser based?

Had the S21 Ultra for a month or so, great device, incredible battery, IQ was to processed unless you shoot RAW and process, but went back to my Note 20 Ultra, as I missed the integrated SPen, IQ from my Note was 95% as good as the S21 Ultra, but eventually I just missed the better IQ (mainly due to the jpegs directly from RAW that the Huawei's offer). But I reckon the S21 U is the best package out there. Back to your question Google Services is web based, but I've pretty much got everything sorted, and battery life is insane without GMS and Play Services sucking things unrelentingly in the background.

I use a different email client for GMail account, for maps I use Huawei Petal Maps which is really good, and I use Bromite which is a chromium based browser, looks exactly lie chrome just with all the tracking and junk stripped out. So its really not that bad as what people think.

Groot · Jul 11, 2021

Mi 11 Ultra , but Mi 10 Ultra also have 50mm lens whoch I miss very much on the Mi 11 Ultra.

Mi 11 Ultra is sold for 900-950 USD.

cjfeola · Jul 11, 2021

I2K4 said:
If not aware, Sony has been moving gradually in the direction of better integration of its phones with its cameras and possibly other electronics products. I've long thought Sony ought to have been the world's second Apple, but the administrative silos and internal empires it builds its diverse products in have prevented development of an integrted "ecosystem", while the individual products are often among the best. That might be slowly changing.

That's what prompted me to start this thread, actually. Every review I've seen of the Xperia 1iii has said something like "The Pro Photo app gives you lots of control! Now lets set everything to auto and compare it with another phone with everything set to auto. Oh, look the non-Sony JPEG has brighter colors and is way sharper!"

Just once I'd like a comparo of "pro" modes with all that stuff turned off. I understand I'm not the average consumer, and that's fine. But one would think Pro modes aren't for the average consumer, no?

Cjf

cjfeola · Jul 11, 2021

Great shots! Which Huawei are you using? How do you like it all around?

Cjf

melodika · Jul 11, 2021

For me Mi 10 Ultra + GCam is the best combination for DSLR like output. I had P30 Pro and RAW output was very poor (inaccurate colors, corner color shift, artefacts). Mi 10 Ultra with GCam is from another planet – this same applies to other Xiaomi phones as well (Mi 10 Pro, Mi 11 Ultra...).

Evidence:

Main lens

Jostian · Jul 12, 2021

melodika said:
For me Mi 10 Ultra + GCam is the best combination for DSLR like output. I had P30 Pro and RAW output was very poor (inaccurate colors, corner color shift, artefacts). Mi 10 Ultra with GCam is from another planet – this same applies to other Xiaomi phones as well (Mi 10 Pro, Mi 11 Ultra...).

Evidence:

Main lens

Main lens

Main lens

Main lens

nice but looking closer shows very soft detail, see crop below from one of your shots, I wouldn't be happy with this.

I'd be way happier with this from my P40 Pro.

--
Jostian

J's Space…. Bits n Pieces for Life!

Technology, Opinion, Sustainability, Poetry & some Photography

jostian.blogspot.com

Jostian · Jul 12, 2021

cjfeola said:
Great shots! Which Huawei are you using? How do you like it all around?

Cjf

P40 Pro, really enjoying it, once I got it setup and found good alternatives to the Google apps, battery life is amazing and its the best camera out there, the UWA lens especially sets the bar so far about other OEMs.

Like I've said before the one thing Huawei has that no other OEM offers is the jpeg directly from RAW that the phone produces in Pro mode, that jpeg has none of the auto processing etc like you get in auto mode, just a direct conversion from the RAW to a 12mp jpeg, see the photo I posted in the previous reply, very natural looking, no smearing, or heavy NR etc.

melodika · Jul 12, 2021

Jostian said:
nice but looking closer shows very soft detail, see crop below from one of your shots, I wouldn't be happy with this

I think that this might be a DOF issue for that particular photo – after all it's a large sensor focused to a distant subject. But I agree that GCam stacking sometimes produce blurred parts, so yes it's not perfect. But generally I prefer the way 48mp Gcam renders detail - it's quite natural and crisp at least for static scenes. Movement within the frame is a a problem like you noticed, as is the left corner sharpness for this particular lens. While I think 48mp is really overkill for the sensor/lens combination, resizing to say 24mp produces really crisp results.

My problem with most phones is the fact that they usually produce only 12mp output with no option for full resolution RAW files. Of course to get more detail you need lots of light, but then the difference could be considerable. I really like Huawei's output but as you cannot use GCam the tuning possibilities are quite limited. Particularly I like the way GCam renders JPG files - it could be very close to properly edited RAW which I find nice. But to get perfect files you have to tune, tune and tune so I agree it's not the best solution to everyone.

Here's a nicer example where even corners are OK – and with 48mp you can clearly see even the smallest details (look at the crane in the background).

Mi 10 Ultra 48mp

Jostian · Jul 12, 2021

melodika said:
Jostian said:

nice but looking closer shows very soft detail, see crop below from one of your shots, I wouldn't be happy with this

Click to expand...

I think that this might be a DOF issue for that particular photo

At that distance DoF shouldn't be an issue. But even your photo below is pretty soft see crop below, but still very natural which is really great to see, not the over-processed stuff we normally see from OEMs.

melodika said:
– after all it's a large sensor focused to a distant subject. But I agree that GCam stacking sometimes produce blurred parts, so yes it's not perfect. But generally I prefer the way 48mp Gcam renders detail - it's quite natural and crisp at least for static scenes. Movement within the frame is a a problem like you noticed, as is the left corner sharpness for this particular lens. While I think 48mp is really overkill for the sensor/lens combination, resizing to say 24mp produces really crisp results.

My problem with most phones is the fact that they usually produce only 12mp output with no option for full resolution RAW files.

The P40 Pro produces full res RAWs of around 100mb in size.

melodika said:
Of course to get more detail you need lots of light,

absolutely true yes.

melodika said:
but then the difference could be considerable. I really like Huawei's output but as you cannot use GCam the tuning possibilities are quite limited.

But you can use Photoshop express and Snapseed both are really good and easy to use, I use them both.

melodika said:
Particularly I like the way GCam renders JPG files - it could be very close to properly edited RAW which I find nice. But to get perfect files you have to tune, tune and tune so I agree it's not the best solution to everyone.

Here's a nicer example where even corners are OK – and with 48mp you can clearly see even the smallest details (look at the crane in the background).

Mi 10 Ultra 48mp

--
Jostian

J's Space…. Bits n Pieces for Life!

Technology, Opinion, Sustainability, Poetry & some Photography

jostian.blogspot.com

Panino Manino · Jul 12, 2021

melodika said:
Jostian said:

nice but looking closer shows very soft detail, see crop below from one of your shots, I wouldn't be happy with this

Click to expand...

I think that this might be a DOF issue for that particular photo – after all it's a large sensor focused to a distant subject. But I agree that GCam stacking sometimes produce blurred parts, so yes it's not perfect. But generally I prefer the way 48mp Gcam renders detail - it's quite natural and crisp at least for static scenes. Movement within the frame is a a problem like you noticed, as is the left corner sharpness for this particular lens. While I think 48mp is really overkill for the sensor/lens combination, resizing to say 24mp produces really crisp results.

My problem with most phones is the fact that they usually produce only 12mp output with no option for full resolution RAW files. Of course to get more detail you need lots of light, but then the difference could be considerable. I really like Huawei's output but as you cannot use GCam the tuning possibilities are quite limited. Particularly I like the way GCam renders JPG files - it could be very close to properly edited RAW which I find nice. But to get perfect files you have to tune, tune and tune so I agree it's not the best solution to everyone.

Here's a nicer example where even corners are OK – and with 48mp you can clearly see even the smallest details (look at the crane in the background).

Mi 10 Ultra 48mp

You're right that it looks "natural", but I'm also puzzled by your photos, I'm seeing a lot less detail that I was expecting from such high resolution photos and camera mod. Probably a limitation of this 48mp quad-bayer sensor.

I'm not finding any advantage over the P40P native camera.

Also, the lack of Google Services on Huawei phones is overblow. Maybe some will be affected by some crucial application that needs it, but even if you want to used Googles services you can access most of it by other means. It's a really it's a desirable feature to have a phone without Google's intrusion.
And I also have to point that Xiaomi phones can be horrible, with too much bloatware and other annoyances. It gets in the way and kills performance.

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