Canon rumored R7. I'm calling it...

Started 6 months ago | Discussions thread
MikeJ9116 Veteran Member • Posts: 5,976
Re: Canon rumored R7. I'm calling it...
1

sportyaccordy wrote:

MikeJ9116 wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

MikeJ9116 wrote:

As am I and APS-C, in general. There are many millions of APS-C users and many of them are waiting for APS-C cameras with an RF mount. IMO, Canon would be crazy to not serve these people in the R system. The M system will not serve them because Canon won't let it serve them.

I think a stronger argument could be made that the majority of APS-C users

  • don't even use their ILCs anymore
  • don't know the difference between APS-C & FF
  • don't know the difference between EF and RF (or that RF even exists)
  • don't know the difference between DSLRs and mirrorless cameras

The argument is in the vast number of APS-C users across all brands (although more so regarding Canon users). In today's low ILC sales just a fraction of these users buying RF mount APS-C cameras amounts to a big portion of annual sales. To make APS-C viable, and profitable, just a fraction of the current user base buying R system APS-C cameras is needed.

Just because someone bought an APS-C camera doesn't mean they are an APS-C user. Like I said the vast majority of APS-C buyers have likely abandoned ILCs altogether. So there's not this huge mass of "users" waiting for the right camera to buy, and Canon knows this.

I don't understand your argument here. You seem to be saying nearly all APS-C owners never use their cameras. Where do you get this from? Even if half of them still use their cameras it is a very large potential pool of buyers. A heck of a lot of people still use their APS-C cameras as indicated by the fact that Canon still sells many, many DSLR APS-C cameras. Way more than M cameras. Many of these people would likely buy an APS-C camera with an RF mount, if available, instead of a DSLR or M camera.

Not to mention Canon has had a mirrorless system for nearly a decade so if people wanted an APS-C MILC by Canon they had that choice for quite some time.

The M system is anemic which is why it has not grown into a desirable system to most APS-C users. The EF-S cameras sold more in a given year than M cameras sold in its entire existence.

Right, but which year? I'd wager that in 2021 EF-M is outselling EF-S. What happened in 2012 is irrelevant.

I wouldn't take that bet if I were you. Aside from the M6/2, which has never been a popular M camera, there has been little incentive to buy M cameras lately. For some reason people like to think M sales in Japan are an indicator of M sales in the rest of the world. Japan, as a percentage of population, buys more M cameras than most other places in the world mostly because of Canon's long history in this country and its brand recognition there.

The vast majority of APS-C DSLR users rejected the M system.

Again the vast majority of APS-C DSLR "users" probably only bought 1 camera kit, which they aren't evne using today. They didn't just reject the M system; they rejected ILCs entirely.

You keep stating something that is literally pulled from thin air. Are you Professor X and are tied into every APS-C user's mind on the planet? What on earth makes you think nearly all APS-C camera owners never touch their cameras?

It has never been perceived as a serious platform. APS-C in the R system will not have this issue which is why many APS-C users that spurned the M system will buy into the R system.

This is just flat out wrong; we can look to Nikon Z as an indicator of how a crop RF body would do.

IIRC the Z70 has yet to crack 100K sales after... 2 years on the market? A far cry from the millions of DX DSLRs Nikon sold in the DSLR's hey day. There's nothing to say things would go any better for RF, especially when you factor in that they already have EF-M (which in many respects is more developed than EF-S).

Nikon is mostly on life support as a brand these days. They can't even sell FF MILCs in any decent quantity.  Their ability to not sell cameras is irrespective of sensor size.

This happened with FF DSLR users and they have arguably been more critical of ff MILC cameras than DSLR APS-C users have been with APS-C MILC cameras.

Do you have anything to substantiate this?

I have read the forums here for the past several years. The resistance from DSLR FF users to MILC has been stiff. Only with the R6 and R5 have many finally accepted Canon's FF MILC offering as a legitimate substitute for DSLRs. Even now some are still holding out.  IMO, there is less resistance from APS-C DSLR users to move to MILC than FF users.

When it comes to what Canon and the market do we are all speculating and guessing, but your guesses seem completely plucked out of thin air to serve predetermined narratives about where you want the market to go rather than where all the evidence says it will.

My assumptions are no worse than yours at a minimum.

My assumptions are based on sales data and the decisions camera companies have made; I have no idea what your assumptions are based on.

Not all of them are.  Most are not.  I stand by my original statement.

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