Canon rumored R7. I'm calling it...

Started 6 months ago | Discussions thread
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Re: Canon rumored R7. I'm calling it...
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sportyaccordy wrote:

MikeJ9116 wrote:

sportyaccordy wrote:

MikeJ9116 wrote:

As am I and APS-C, in general. There are many millions of APS-C users and many of them are waiting for APS-C cameras with an RF mount. IMO, Canon would be crazy to not serve these people in the R system. The M system will not serve them because Canon won't let it serve them.

I think a stronger argument could be made that the majority of APS-C users

  • don't even use their ILCs anymore
  • don't know the difference between APS-C & FF
  • don't know the difference between EF and RF (or that RF even exists)
  • don't know the difference between DSLRs and mirrorless cameras

The argument is in the vast number of APS-C users across all brands (although more so regarding Canon users). In today's low ILC sales just a fraction of these users buying RF mount APS-C cameras amounts to a big portion of annual sales. To make APS-C viable, and profitable, just a fraction of the current user base buying R system APS-C cameras is needed.

Just because someone bought an APS-C camera doesn't mean they are an APS-C user. Like I said the vast majority of APS-C buyers have likely abandoned ILCs altogether. So there's not this huge mass of "users" waiting for the right camera to buy, and Canon knows this.

Where is your information on this? Having spoken to local dealers there are still plenty of people asking for crop bodies. I currently own a few as well as a FF camera that rarely gets used. When I am out and about the majority of cameras I see people using for wildlife are crop bodies. Many people have a couple of cameras and a crop will be one of them.

Not to mention Canon has had a mirrorless system for nearly a decade so if people wanted an APS-C MILC by Canon they had that choice for quite some time.

The M system is anemic which is why it has not grown into a desirable system to most APS-C users. The EF-S cameras sold more in a given year than M cameras sold in its entire existence.

Right, but which year? I'd wager that in 2021 EF-M is outselling EF-S. What happened in 2012 is irrelevant.

Again, you have little information to back that up. In the last three years here in the UK,  and I get around a lot, I have only seen one M body being used for wildlife. That was an M50 someone was using in the Peak District for a bearded vulture, a rarity in this country. There were however hundreds of people using DSLRs and most of them were crop bodies. I see similar most days, From reports, M has sold well in parts of the US and Japan but has been a poor seller elsewhere. We can in many ways see that, or Canon would have made more effort on their lens lineup instead of the paltry 8 we see today.

The vast majority of APS-C DSLR users rejected the M system.

Again the vast majority of APS-C DSLR "users" probably only bought 1 camera kit, which they aren't evne using today. They didn't just reject the M system; they rejected ILCs entirely.

Your source? Figures to back up your statement?

It has never been perceived as a serious platform. APS-C in the R system will not have this issue which is why many APS-C users that spurned the M system will buy into the R system.

This is just flat out wrong; we can look to Nikon Z as an indicator of how a crop RF body would do. IIRC the Z70 has yet to crack 100K sales after... 2 years on the market? A far cry from the millions of DX DSLRs Nikon sold in the DSLR's hey day. There's nothing to say things would go any better for RF, especially when you factor in that they already have EF-M (which in many respects is more developed than EF-S).

Your source for these z70 figures!? And again, how is M more developed than S given Canon only have 8 M lenses. S cameras can use the whole S range of lenses as well as all EF lenses.

This happened with FF DSLR users and they have arguably been more critical of ff MILC cameras than DSLR APS-C users have been with APS-C MILC cameras.

Do you have anything to substantiate this?

Seem you are happy to state facts but when others question things you what them to substantiate it.

When it comes to what Canon and the market do we are all speculating and guessing, but your guesses seem completely plucked out of thin air to serve predetermined narratives about where you want the market to go rather than where all the evidence says it will.

My assumptions are no worse than yours at a minimum.

My assumptions are based on sales data and the decisions camera companies have made; I have no idea what your assumptions are based on.

And where is that sales data! Do you work for Canon or Nikon! If you did you would be under a confidentiality agreement. I have never seen any of the big photography companies break down their sales figures to that level. At best it is ILC vs he rest and sometimes DSLR vs ML. I would love to see full sales figures based on sensor size or even model but the brands as far as I know have never revealed that. All we have to go by is what we see in the field. As a wildlife photographer who gets around quite a bit albeit only here in the UK I can comfortably say that crop bodies are still very popular. We can also look at camera stats from Flickr and the like and again, crop cameras are still very well represented there. Like you however, we can only go by what we see in our own locale and the in our own chosen field of photography. For me that is sport, mainly water based ones like windsurfing, and wildlife. I could hardly comment on landscape, fashion, street etc. But those are not what the 7D and a potential R7 are about so to some extent irrelevant to this thread.

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