R6 any experience with the 20Fps electronic shutter?

karlreed

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I have used the 18fps once on the EM1.2, but, rolling shutter was very noticeable.

How does the R6 do in this regard?

--
karl reed "let's change the tone-civility is in!"
 
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I use both the em1.3 and R6. Rolling shutter is a little worse on the R6, which is understandable, because the sensor is full frame.

But rolling shutter is the least of your worries in burst shooting, because the dynamic range will drop on the R6.

Both are limited to 12bit RAWs in high burst mode. So the difference in image quality is negligible between the R6 and em1.3.

If you want 14 bit RAW in burst shooting take a look at Sony a7III or Panasonic S5.
 
  1. Funny Valentine wrote:
I use both the em1.3 and R6. Rolling shutter is a little worse on the R6, which is understandable, because the sensor is full frame.

But rolling shutter is the least of your worries in burst shooting, because the dynamic range will drop on the R6.

Both are limited to 12bit RAWs in high burst mode. So the difference in image quality is negligible between the R6 and em1.3.

If you want 14 bit RAW in burst shooting take a look at Sony a7III or Panasonic S5.
 
  1. Funny Valentine wrote:
I use both the em1.3 and R6. Rolling shutter is a little worse on the R6, which is understandable, because the sensor is full frame.

But rolling shutter is the least of your worries in burst shooting, because the dynamic range will drop on the R6.

Both are limited to 12bit RAWs in high burst mode. So the difference in image quality is negligible between the R6 and em1.3.

If you want 14 bit RAW in burst shooting take a look at Sony a7III or Panasonic S5.
Good luck with Sony A7III the readout speeed in 14 bit is 1/15s
It depends on the type of photography you do. For sports and birds where the motion is horizontal or vertical, it sucks.

For macro, bug and portrait photography where the motion is back and forth the rolling shutter has no effect. So having 14bit over 12bit is a big big advantage.

--
...
 
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  1. Funny Valentine wrote:
I use both the em1.3 and R6. Rolling shutter is a little worse on the R6, which is understandable, because the sensor is full frame.

But rolling shutter is the least of your worries in burst shooting, because the dynamic range will drop on the R6.

Both are limited to 12bit RAWs in high burst mode. So the difference in image quality is negligible between the R6 and em1.3.

If you want 14 bit RAW in burst shooting take a look at Sony a7III or Panasonic S5.
Good luck with Sony A7III the readout speeed in 14 bit is 1/15s
It depends on the type of photography you do. For sports and birds where the motion is horizontal or vertical, it sucks.

For macro, bug and portrait photography where the motion is back and forth the rolling shutter has no effect. So having 14bit over 12bit is a big big advantage.
 
Using the R5, I am using 100% electric shutter with 0 issues (at least noticeable issues). However, when I ask a friend who shoots an R6, they say they never used it so they can't say. Its unfortunate. I feel like many people automatically assume its going to cost them a shot. I personally, feel they miss more than they get based on it, but I need one in hand to confirm.
 
  1. Funny Valentine wrote:
I use both the em1.3 and R6. Rolling shutter is a little worse on the R6, which is understandable, because the sensor is full frame.

But rolling shutter is the least of your worries in burst shooting, because the dynamic range will drop on the R6.

Both are limited to 12bit RAWs in high burst mode. So the difference in image quality is negligible between the R6 and em1.3.

If you want 14 bit RAW in burst shooting take a look at Sony a7III or Panasonic S5.
Good luck with Sony A7III the readout speeed in 14 bit is 1/15s
It depends on the type of photography you do. For sports and birds where the motion is horizontal or vertical, it sucks.

For macro, bug and portrait photography where the motion is back and forth the rolling shutter has no effect. So having 14bit over 12bit is a big big advantage.
Can you please show us some examples of this advantage in macro, sounds like you have some experience in the area. Thanks
I'm not a macro expert at all, But I use electronic shutter a lot for macro with moving subjects and when I move back and forth to acquire focus in MF, and I never see visible deformations.
 
Using the R5, I am using 100% electric shutter with 0 issues (at least noticeable issues). However, when I ask a friend who shoots an R6, they say they never used it so they can't say. Its unfortunate. I feel like many people automatically assume its going to cost them a shot. I personally, feel they miss more than they get based on it, but I need one in hand to confirm.
 
  1. Funny Valentine wrote:
I use both the em1.3 and R6. Rolling shutter is a little worse on the R6, which is understandable, because the sensor is full frame.

But rolling shutter is the least of your worries in burst shooting, because the dynamic range will drop on the R6.

Both are limited to 12bit RAWs in high burst mode. So the difference in image quality is negligible between the R6 and em1.3.

If you want 14 bit RAW in burst shooting take a look at Sony a7III or Panasonic S5.
Good luck with Sony A7III the readout speeed in 14 bit is 1/15s
It depends on the type of photography you do. For sports and birds where the motion is horizontal or vertical, it sucks.

For macro, bug and portrait photography where the motion is back and forth the rolling shutter has no effect. So having 14bit over 12bit is a big big advantage.
Can you please show us some examples of this advantage in macro, sounds like you have some experience in the area. Thanks
I'm not a macro expert at all, But I use electronic shutter a lot for macro with moving subjects and when I move back and forth to acquire focus in MF, and I never see visible deformations.
 
  1. Funny Valentine wrote:
I use both the em1.3 and R6. Rolling shutter is a little worse on the R6, which is understandable, because the sensor is full frame.

But rolling shutter is the least of your worries in burst shooting, because the dynamic range will drop on the R6.

Both are limited to 12bit RAWs in high burst mode. So the difference in image quality is negligible between the R6 and em1.3.

If you want 14 bit RAW in burst shooting take a look at Sony a7III or Panasonic S5.
Good luck with Sony A7III the readout speeed in 14 bit is 1/15s
It depends on the type of photography you do. For sports and birds where the motion is horizontal or vertical, it sucks.

For macro, bug and portrait photography where the motion is back and forth the rolling shutter has no effect. So having 14bit over 12bit is a big big advantage.
Can you please show us some examples of this advantage in macro, sounds like you have some experience in the area. Thanks
I'm not a macro expert at all, But I use electronic shutter a lot for macro with moving subjects and when I move back and forth to acquire focus in MF, and I never see visible deformations.
I guess I was really curious about the big big advantage of 14 bit vs 12 bit.
Bit depth is good for eking out the most for DR and color graduations. Someone pointed out for me, the 12 bit capture on the R5 limits the shadow recovery ability. Also it could (but not guaranteed) be more prone to banding than a 14 bit capture, but that is a little more involved and better explained by someone with a better understanding.

One other thing to note, not all 14 bit capture is really 14 bits of unique data. Some are actually less with some place holder values to give the appearance of full depth.
 
  1. Funny Valentine wrote:
I use both the em1.3 and R6. Rolling shutter is a little worse on the R6, which is understandable, because the sensor is full frame.

But rolling shutter is the least of your worries in burst shooting, because the dynamic range will drop on the R6.

Both are limited to 12bit RAWs in high burst mode. So the difference in image quality is negligible between the R6 and em1.3.

If you want 14 bit RAW in burst shooting take a look at Sony a7III or Panasonic S5.
Good luck with Sony A7III the readout speeed in 14 bit is 1/15s
It depends on the type of photography you do. For sports and birds where the motion is horizontal or vertical, it sucks.

For macro, bug and portrait photography where the motion is back and forth the rolling shutter has no effect. So having 14bit over 12bit is a big big advantage.
Can you please show us some examples of this advantage in macro, sounds like you have some experience in the area. Thanks
I'm not a macro expert at all, But I use electronic shutter a lot for macro with moving subjects and when I move back and forth to acquire focus in MF, and I never see visible deformations.
I guess I was really curious about the big big advantage of 14 bit vs 12 bit.
Bit depth is good for eking out the most for DR and color graduations. Someone pointed out for me, the 12 bit capture on the R5 limits the shadow recovery ability. Also it could (but not guaranteed) be more prone to banding than a 14 bit capture, but that is a little more involved and better explained by someone with a better understanding.

One other thing to note, not all 14 bit capture is really 14 bits of unique data. Some are actually less with some place holder values to give the appearance of full depth.
 
  1. Funny Valentine wrote:
I use both the em1.3 and R6. Rolling shutter is a little worse on the R6, which is understandable, because the sensor is full frame.

But rolling shutter is the least of your worries in burst shooting, because the dynamic range will drop on the R6.

Both are limited to 12bit RAWs in high burst mode. So the difference in image quality is negligible between the R6 and em1.3.

If you want 14 bit RAW in burst shooting take a look at Sony a7III or Panasonic S5.
Good luck with Sony A7III the readout speeed in 14 bit is 1/15s
It depends on the type of photography you do. For sports and birds where the motion is horizontal or vertical, it sucks.

For macro, bug and portrait photography where the motion is back and forth the rolling shutter has no effect. So having 14bit over 12bit is a big big advantage.
Can you please show us some examples of this advantage in macro, sounds like you have some experience in the area. Thanks
I'm not a macro expert at all, But I use electronic shutter a lot for macro with moving subjects and when I move back and forth to acquire focus in MF, and I never see visible deformations.
I guess I was really curious about the big big advantage of 14 bit vs 12 bit.
Bit depth is good for eking out the most for DR and color graduations. Someone pointed out for me, the 12 bit capture on the R5 limits the shadow recovery ability. Also it could (but not guaranteed) be more prone to banding than a 14 bit capture, but that is a little more involved and better explained by someone with a better understanding.

One other thing to note, not all 14 bit capture is really 14 bits of unique data. Some are actually less with some place holder values to give the appearance of full depth.
One of the reasons I’m asking is that I’m not seeing banding and bad gradients with 8 bit files from the R5 and R5. I’m not saying there’s no difference between 12 and 14 but raw, I just have the impression that they are typically diminishingly small but I’d love to wrong about that so I’d love to see some examples from those who have taken advantage of the difference.
I use the R5 with electronic shutter after initially staying away from it after hearing of all other the archair theretical discussion. I have found Electronic Shutter/12 bit is on R5 to be nonexistent and never occuring in the way I shoot during my first 50,000 images with R5. I was shocked with excellent real world results after hearing nothing but trash talk and theortical mumbo jumbo coverage that rolling/12 bits gets on the forums. Try it. I think if your results like mine then you will like it at least on the R5. I have nevers touched an R6 which may be worse, but do not listen to the naysayers, pixel peepers and spec jockeys. "Trust but verify" with data from actual hands on experience.
 
Actually, I used ES on EM-1mkII a lot for hand-held low-light shooting. It gives no vibration and I can take pictures at night handheld at 1-2 seconds at first try. Too bad, R6 with ES limited to 0,5secnods only so it useless where it have (theoretically) most advantage.
 
  1. Funny Valentine wrote:
I use both the em1.3 and R6. Rolling shutter is a little worse on the R6, which is understandable, because the sensor is full frame.

But rolling shutter is the least of your worries in burst shooting, because the dynamic range will drop on the R6.

Both are limited to 12bit RAWs in high burst mode. So the difference in image quality is negligible between the R6 and em1.3.

If you want 14 bit RAW in burst shooting take a look at Sony a7III or Panasonic S5.
Good luck with Sony A7III the readout speeed in 14 bit is 1/15s
It depends on the type of photography you do. For sports and birds where the motion is horizontal or vertical, it sucks.

For macro, bug and portrait photography where the motion is back and forth the rolling shutter has no effect. So having 14bit over 12bit is a big big advantage.
Can you please show us some examples of this advantage in macro, sounds like you have some experience in the area. Thanks
I'm not a macro expert at all, But I use electronic shutter a lot for macro with moving subjects and when I move back and forth to acquire focus in MF, and I never see visible deformations.
moving subjects ? insects? then that's a no go with Sony A7III and E shutter, stationary subjets is another thing.

for me I'm using E-shutter for BIF and when trying out new stuff not to wear out the mechanical shutter.

R6 is pretty good when using E shutter 1/60s readout speed , Sony A7III in 12 bits raw has 1/30s so half the speed ( believe me it is a big difference I had the A7III for 3 years)

The IBIS is also way better on Canon.
 
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Actually, I used ES on EM-1mkII a lot for hand-held low-light shooting. It gives no vibration and I can take pictures at night handheld at 1-2 seconds at first try. Too bad, R6 with ES limited to 0,5secnods only so it useless where it have (theoretically) most advantage.
Thanks everyone, a great discussion. I'd never thought about ES as means if improving HH shots. I had great success with the EM1.II, but, stuck with the D750, better overall IQ, but, not by much.

My question was based on my need to decide which MILC to go with. I have quite a bit of good Nikon glass, 28-300mmVR, 16-35mmf4 VR, 24-74mmf2.8 G (MkI), but can afford to jump ship. I think my final decision point is IQ.

However, I need to sure that "all" things will be better on the R6. ES on the Z6ii is limited to max 14FPS, but, with 12 bits. 14 Bit max is 10FPS.
 
  1. Funny Valentine wrote:
I use both the em1.3 and R6. Rolling shutter is a little worse on the R6, which is understandable, because the sensor is full frame.

But rolling shutter is the least of your worries in burst shooting, because the dynamic range will drop on the R6.

Both are limited to 12bit RAWs in high burst mode. So the difference in image quality is negligible between the R6 and em1.3.

If you want 14 bit RAW in burst shooting take a look at Sony a7III or Panasonic S5.
Good luck with Sony A7III the readout speeed in 14 bit is 1/15s
It depends on the type of photography you do. For sports and birds where the motion is horizontal or vertical, it sucks.

For macro, bug and portrait photography where the motion is back and forth the rolling shutter has no effect. So having 14bit over 12bit is a big big advantage.
Not all bird photography involves much motion. I use ES on perched birds and you'd never know the difference. Also, I'm not convinced lots of dynamic range is necessary on most of the images I get in macro. Finally, is DR a function of bit depth in an image?
 
  1. Funny Valentine wrote:
I use both the em1.3 and R6. Rolling shutter is a little worse on the R6, which is understandable, because the sensor is full frame.

But rolling shutter is the least of your worries in burst shooting, because the dynamic range will drop on the R6.

Both are limited to 12bit RAWs in high burst mode. So the difference in image quality is negligible between the R6 and em1.3.

If you want 14 bit RAW in burst shooting take a look at Sony a7III or Panasonic S5.
Good luck with Sony A7III the readout speeed in 14 bit is 1/15s
It depends on the type of photography you do. For sports and birds where the motion is horizontal or vertical, it sucks.

For macro, bug and portrait photography where the motion is back and forth the rolling shutter has no effect. So having 14bit over 12bit is a big big advantage.
Can you please show us some examples of this advantage in macro, sounds like you have some experience in the area. Thanks
I'm not a macro expert at all, But I use electronic shutter a lot for macro with moving subjects and when I move back and forth to acquire focus in MF, and I never see visible deformations.
I guess I was really curious about the big big advantage of 14 bit vs 12 bit.
Bit depth is good for eking out the most for DR and color graduations. Someone pointed out for me, the 12 bit capture on the R5 limits the shadow recovery ability. Also it could (but not guaranteed) be more prone to banding than a 14 bit capture, but that is a little more involved and better explained by someone with a better understanding.

One other thing to note, not all 14 bit capture is really 14 bits of unique data. Some are actually less with some place holder values to give the appearance of full depth.
You got a reference on bit depth and dynamic range? I am asking because I recent something recently (I cannot remember where) that said that bit depth doesn't impact dynamic range, but it does impact color gradations. The dynamic range has more to do with ADC going on from the sensor. Can you comment on this?
 
  1. Funny Valentine wrote:
I use both the em1.3 and R6. Rolling shutter is a little worse on the R6, which is understandable, because the sensor is full frame.

But rolling shutter is the least of your worries in burst shooting, because the dynamic range will drop on the R6.

Both are limited to 12bit RAWs in high burst mode. So the difference in image quality is negligible between the R6 and em1.3.

If you want 14 bit RAW in burst shooting take a look at Sony a7III or Panasonic S5.
Good luck with Sony A7III the readout speeed in 14 bit is 1/15s
It depends on the type of photography you do. For sports and birds where the motion is horizontal or vertical, it sucks.

For macro, bug and portrait photography where the motion is back and forth the rolling shutter has no effect. So having 14bit over 12bit is a big big advantage.
Not all bird photography involves much motion. I use ES on perched birds and you'd never know the difference. Also, I'm not convinced lots of dynamic range is necessary on most of the images I get in macro. Finally, is DR a function of bit depth in an image?
It cannot be the only factor, because cameras with the same no. of bits in their images have different DR, but, it determines the max possible range because the no. of bits determines the range of signal voltage that can be encoded. 12 bits is 0 to 2**12 i.e 0 to 4096, 14 bits is 0- 2**14 , i.e. 0 to 16384,16 bits 0 to 2 **16 , i.e. 65536.

Oh, I forgot the ADC probably never gets to see a zero input because of noise. Plus, the AC may not be prefect at very low inputs or very high.

However, the ACD's need to be perfect as well.

--
karl reed "let's change the tone-civility is in!"
 
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You got a reference on bit depth and dynamic range? I am asking because I recent something recently (I cannot remember where) that said that bit depth doesn't impact dynamic range, but it does impact color gradations. The dynamic range has more to do with ADC going on from the sensor. Can you comment on this?
There is this "DYNAMIC RANGE IN DIGITAL PHOTOGRAPHY"

Plus this "Dynamic Range verses ISO setting"

Both make interesting reading.

--
Phil
I wondered why the ball kept getting bigger, then it hit me.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/philthebirdbrain/sets/
 
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