From Canon 6D to mirrorless

Started 3 months ago | Discussions thread
Rado R Forum Member • Posts: 50
Re: From Canon 6D to mirrorless

Rado R wrote:

ChelseaPhotographer wrote:

Rado R wrote:

ChelseaPhotographer wrote:

Rado R wrote:

ChelseaPhotographer wrote:

Rado R wrote:

ChelseaPhotographer wrote:

ecka84 wrote:

Unfortunately, you and many others (including your suggested youtuber) are terrible at math. Because FF 24-105F4 is equivalent to APS-C 16-70F2.6. Not F4.

So, how big is and how much does the XF 16-55F2.8 weight? Same goes with XF 50-140F2.8, which is simply "destroyed" by the faster, smaller, better and cheaper FF 70-200F4.

Learn equivalence. Don't believe lies.

LOL, I'm loving your posts. It is so true. An f/2.8 lens in APS-C is slower than f/4 in full-frame... And when you compare, say a Fuji X-T4 with a 16-55 f/2.8 with a Sony A7RIII and the Tamron 28-75 f/2.8 they are almost the same size, and obviously the Sony destroys the Fuji in every way (except colors!) ;p

I'm glad you're loving how wrong he is. The type of photography matters. A lot.

The OP uses 17-40 f4 on FF. That's 84x97mm, 475g

The landscape equivalent on fuji is the 10-24 f4 which is 78x87mm, 410g.

These are actually pretty close in size, though the fuji is still smaller and lighter and it has OIS to boot. This will allow the OP to actually shoot in darker conditions handheld.

So for *landscape*, the lenses are smaller!

I think you will find that the one who is incorrect is you. An f/4 APS-C lens is equivalent to f/6.1 in full frame.

Depends what you mean by equivalent. One can argue that they can never be equivalent due to different perspective, but I digress.

So the FF 17-40 is more than 1 f-stop brighter than the Fuji.

Nope. They are exactly as bright in the same area of the sensor. The only difference is that the FF has *more* light, but this light exposes a *different* part of the sensor and therefore it is not any more brighter at the individual pixel. Therefore, your exposure will be exactly the same at the same fstop. Try it. I would love you to prove me wrong.

You are not really comparing apples to apples. And since the fuji lenses are a slower, you need longer shutter speeds...

No, you don't need longer shutter speed. Exactly the same intensity of light hits the individual sensor pixels.

No, you are getting a lot more photons because of the larger area of the sensor, and no, if I take a photograph with an APS-C camera at f/2.8, in order to get the same image with a full frame camera I would have to close the aperture to f/4. And if instead I shoot at f/2.8 with the full frame, I will have to make my shutter speed 1 f-stop faster, otherwise the image will be 1 f-stop lighter than that of the APS-C camera... <sigh>

Again, I appreciate the comments of ecka84 because, unlike you, they know what they are talking about...

Lol! It's funny that you think you know what you're talking about. Yet, you are talking about an entirely different thing.

Ok, I'll bite.

Yes, if you want to take the "exact same image" (which is actually impossible due to the different perspective of the different focal lengths) you will need to take into account aperture because of the depth of field.

... here comes the big BUT...

But, if you read the OP, we're actually talking about landscape photography here.

This is important! It is, in fact, the key point.

Have you ever done landscape photography? How important do you think shallow depth of field is for landscape photography?

It's not! Landscape photographers usually shoot stopped down. F8 or even higher.

So ... let's revise what "exact same image" means with respect to landscape photography. It means:

1) same field of view

2) same exposure.

Depth of field is irrelevant.

Now, answer this: how come there is no focal length in the exposure triangle? Do light meters care about how big is your sensor?

The answer is no, sensor size and focal lengths don't matter for exposure.

Now ... how about field of view?

Yes, that matters. A 24mm on FF will have the same field of view as a 16mm on 1.5x crop sensor.

Therefore, for LANDSCAPE photographer, the "exact same image" can be taken with:

- Full Frame at 24mm, f4, ISO 100, and 1/60

- Crop Frame at 16mm, f4, ISO 100, and 1/60

But you don't have to believe me. Try it. Maybe you'll learn something.

OMG. Pretty much everything you said is incorrect. I am not here to educate you and this is getting tiresome. But I will try one last time. Start with the last part. You say these two images will be the same...

- Full Frame at 24mm, f4, ISO 100, and 1/60

- Crop Frame at 16mm, f4, ISO 100, and 1/60

...but you are incorrect. The full frame image will be 1 f-stop brighter than the APS-C image. (I don't know if you have an APS-C and a full frame camera, but if you do, please just take the picture before you keep on going on...)

Lets keep the APS-C settings as a given

- Crop Frame at 16mm, f4, ISO 100, and 1/60

In order to get "the same" lightness in the image from the full frame camera you can do any of the following:

- Full Frame at 24mm, f/6.1, ISO 100, and 1/60

- Full Frame at 24mm, f4, ISO 50, and 1/60

- Full Frame at 24mm, f4, ISO 100, and 1/120

If you don't understand this, then you are simply not getting it. The change in aperture is not so that you have the same depth of field, although it is a byproduct. It is so that you halve the exposure of the full frame camera so that you have the same lightness.

Sorry, you're wrong. Both images will be just as bright (assuming both cameras have the same iso "sensitivity")

The only differences will be perspective and DoF. That's it.

Think about it. It seems you know the exposure triangle...

Think about it!

ISO... aperture ... shutter speed. That's it!

I can make shots with crop and FF later to show you, but someone else will likely chime in before then. Anyway, you can even do the experiment yourself with any camera that has a zoom lens:

1) Frame and expose a scene

2) Lock in your exposure

3) Take a photo

4) With the exposure still locked and the camera in the same position, change the focal length

5) Take another photo

6) Compare the exposure of the same area in both photos. It will have the same brightness

Edit: Here, I found a YT video you can also watch: https://youtu.be/hi_CkZ0sGAw

Here is the test I outlined above (with the same camera - Canon 6D). My APS-C battery is still charging ... may be dead ... haven't used it in many years.

A

B

C

All images are taken with different focal lengths. Exposure settings are all the same. Edit was only for lens profile correction and crop.

Can you tell which one is which?

Here are the answers:

C:

  • Aperture: 4
  • Exposure time: 1
  • ISO: 100
  • Focal length: 24mm

B:

  • Aperture: 4
  • Exposure time: 1
  • ISO: 100
  • Focal length: 50mm

A:

  • Aperture: 4
  • Exposure time: 1
  • ISO: 100
  • Focal length: 105mm

I'll post the APS-C test later if my battery is able to charge.

 Rado R's gear list:Rado R's gear list
Canon EOS 450D Canon EOS 6D Canon EF 50mm F1.4 USM Canon EF 70-200mm F4L USM Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro USM +5 more
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