Can this be caused by a scratch on outer lens element

skipool · Oct 24, 2019

Hello,

I would like a community opinion on this photograph.

Someone made a statement that the line on the photograph below is caused by a scratch on the outer lens element.

Can this be true?

If yes, could you please explain. If not, what could be the cause?

Unfortunately I don't have a better image.

Thank you.

Chaplain Mark · Oct 24, 2019

Looks more like a dust bunny on the sensor, but hard to tell due to severe crop.

Could you post the entire photo so we could see the defect in context?

sybersitizen · Oct 24, 2019

skipool said:
Someone made a statement that the line on the photograph below is caused by a scratch on the outer lens element.

Can this be true?

It's not impossible.

skipool said:
If yes, could you please explain.

Depending on the camera, lens, aperture, and shooting conditions, a huge scratch on the front element could have a visible effect on an image. I demonstrated something similar just about a week ago.

skipool said:
If not, what could be the cause?

Debris (or some kind of anomaly) on some other part of the lens, or on the sensor.

skipool · Oct 24, 2019

This picture is provided by an eBay buyer who purchased a fixed lens camera from me.

They complained that lens have scratches, and these scratches affect the photographs made by the camera. I refunded more than 50% of purchase price to settle this complaint, but I'm unsure if the complaint was valid in the first place because I don't recall any scratches on the lens when I was selling the camera in the first place.

After requests to show proof (that lens scratches affect photo quality) the buyer provided this picture; so unfortunately this is the best quality I got.

I am not able to see a similar defect on photographs that I made with this camera, so I'm confused - is it a legit complaint?

Here's a couple of sample pictures that I do have (made some time before selling the camera); I don't see the same thing there (but maybe I'm just not looking right?)

Thank you!

skipool · Oct 24, 2019

Thank you for your response!

I guess that a huge scratch can cause an effect; however what surprises me is that the line shown in the original photograph is thin and long, almost being "in focus" (unlike issues on photographs from your post which show some roundish out-of-focus thing).

sybersitizen · Oct 24, 2019

skipool said:
After requests to show proof (that lens scratches affect photo quality) the buyer provided this picture; so unfortunately this is the best quality I got.

See my earlier post. There's no way to tell from the provided image if there's something on the lens, in the lens, or on the sensor. It could even be a complete fake.

Has the buyer provided a photo of an actual scratch on the lens?

sybersitizen · Oct 24, 2019

skipool said:
Thank you for your response!

I guess that a huge scratch can cause an effect; however what surprises me is that the line shown in the original photograph is thin and long, almost being "in focus" (unlike issues on photographs from your post which show some roundish out-of-focus thing).

My out-of-focus thing was a tiny piece of paper, not a scratch. A scratch would have a different shape and would thus appear different.

skipool · Oct 24, 2019

The buyer has provided two photos of the front and back of a camera.

I am unsure if these are even pictures of my camera.

The two high-quality pictures attached here are the pictures from the buyer.

The low-quality picture is the picture of the camera that I sold from eBay listing.

I cannot comment on whether the front is a picture of my camera, but the back looks very different - I don't see any of those scratches on the rear display (and don't recall having any of that), and also I notice that on the picture provided by the buyer, there is an indication of some defect in the area of viewfinder, which is not present on the picture of my camera.

The buyer turned out to be an eBay used photography equipment reseller, he has 5 or 10 of these cameras (same model) for sale right now.

Pictures provided by the buyer:

Picture of my camera:

sybersitizen · Oct 24, 2019

skipool said:
... provided by the buyer:

I notice the mark on the front element of the lens does closely resemble the mark you highlighted in the original photo. Both look like an exclamation point:

The mark could be producing a visible effect in the image.

Regarding your comments about the other photos ... if there's that much discrepancy between the camera you sold and the photos sent to you by the buyer, this appears to be a scam. I think you can get eBay involved to investigate, but such decisions almost always favor the buyer.

skipool · Oct 24, 2019

Thank you!

I agreed to settle (and settled) with the buyer, so I would not feel particularly well about pursuing this any further (and I realize I would lose), so I mostly wanted to know if such effect was possible, on the curiosity side.

Bob · Oct 24, 2019

That’s a fairly distinct mark. A scratch on the glass would not project itself at all like that. A scratch would more likely affect glare from a frontal light source.

FrancoD · Oct 24, 2019

looks to me that the two are the same camera just using different lighting to get a more obvious rendition.

Look at the marks on the left hand corner, the one above the n in Canon and the next two along in your photo, and the one on the left edge of the screen about 1/3rd of the way up.

obviously I can't tell if the lens is the same or not.

Gerry Winterbourne · Oct 25, 2019

skipool said:
Hello,

I would like a community opinion on this photograph.

Someone made a statement that the line on the photograph below is caused by a scratch on the outer lens element.

Can this be true?

No. The lens focuses things that are distant from the camera; anything on the front element is therefore significantly out of focus - blurred. Lok at the examples sybercitizen has posted - something that has a distinct shape and hard edges show as a blurred dot. Anything as narrow as a scratch on the lens would be completely blurred out but what you show is sharp.

skipool said:
If yes, could you please explain. If not, what could be the cause?

Some sort of minor mark on the sensor.

skipool said:
Unfortunately I don't have a better image.

Thank you.

--
---
Gerry
___________________________________________
First camera 1953, first Pentax 1985, first DSLR 2006

Galleries by Gerry Winterbourne

www.pbase.com

[email protected]

FrancoD · Oct 25, 2019

Odd that the shape of the scratch and the mark "on the sensor" are exactly the same.

Architeuthis · Oct 25, 2019

skipool said:
Hello,

I would like a community opinion on this photograph.

Someone made a statement that the line on the photograph below is caused by a scratch on the outer lens element.

Can this be true?

If yes, could you please explain. If not, what could be the cause?

Unfortunately I don't have a better image.

Thank you.

Looks more like dust on the sensor. You can check out easily by yourself by attaching another lens: #1.: still there - it is dust, #2.: disapperas - scratch or dust in the lens...

Wolfgang

SonyOB · Oct 25, 2019

Your camera changed color in the process?
It makes me wonder if there are others like you, with the same scratch and blob?

I am paranoid. They know it and that's all they ever talk about.

FrancoD · Oct 25, 2019

Architeuthis said:
Looks more like dust on the sensor. You can check out easily by yourself by attaching another lens: #1.: still there - it is dust, #2.: disapperas - scratch or dust in the lens...

Wolfgang

From an OP's post (n 8)

"This picture is provided by an eBay buyer who purchased a fixed lens camera from me."

absquatulate · Oct 25, 2019

before anything shows up in an image. Here's a good article on it.

http://kurtmunger.com/dirty_lens_articleid35.html

A few years back there was a very similar article, but I can't find it. It makes the example above look undamaged. The front lens was cracked to buggery but you could still take relatively clean images with it, it mostly lost contrast, that was it, I wish I could find it again, it was amazing.

Bob · Oct 25, 2019

absquatulate said:
before anything shows up in an image. Here's a good article on it.

http://kurtmunger.com/dirty_lens_articleid35.html

A few years back there was a very similar article, but I can't find it. It makes the example above look undamaged. The front lens was cracked to buggery but you could still take relatively clean images with it, it mostly lost contrast, that was it, I wish I could find it again, it was amazing.

Thanks for posting that link. Now I can sell my UV filters on ebay.

absquatulate · Oct 25, 2019

Bob said:
absquatulate said:

before anything shows up in an image. Here's a good article on it.

http://kurtmunger.com/dirty_lens_articleid35.html

A few years back there was a very similar article, but I can't find it. It makes the example above look undamaged. The front lens was cracked to buggery but you could still take relatively clean images with it, it mostly lost contrast, that was it, I wish I could find it again, it was amazing.

Click to expand...

Thanks for posting that link. Now I can sell my UV filters on ebay.

Indeed you can, if you were using them to protect a lens that's what a lens cap is for. You'll know that your lens cap is on, if you forget, because you won't be able to see anything, unless you're using a rangefinder of course.....

Can this be caused by a scratch on outer lens element

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