Customer Returns, Lens/Camera

Started 2 months ago | Discussions thread
Canadianguy Senior Member • Posts: 2,193
Re: Did you read the scope of the guide you quoted?

ikaika777 wrote:

Todd Jones wrote:

ikaika777 wrote:

Ed B wrote:

ikaika777 wrote:

It’s against the law for retailers to sell used products “as new”. They have to sell it as used or open box/demo. Places like B&H and Adorama offer 30 days return policy on used/open box/demo products. There’s nothing worse than buying someone else’s lemon.

That's 100% false.

There are no laws, of this kind, that protect U.S. consumers.

B&H, along with every other large retailer, that has liberal return policies, inspects, cleans and repacks returns and if there are no visual defects to the equipment or the box, the items are resold as new.

B&H has admitted this several times in the past.

If the box is damaged or there are minor imperfections (scratches, etc.) the item will be sold as an "open box".

Returned items that actually have a manufacturer's defect are returned to the manufacturer but if there no manufacturer's defect they are sold as stated above.

Liberal return policies are great for some people but they're like a pyramid scheme and sooner or later, someone gets stuck with the used camera someone else tried, used, took on vacation and then returned for a refund.

It happens every day, here in the States.

I do agree that in other countries this is against the law but most other countries don't have liberal return policies.

You are 100% wrong.

”No Legal Definition of Refurbished

I think you're moving the goal posts, who's talking about refurbished?

Um, no. You either didn’t read what I posted or didn’t understand. I’ll try again:

”While the phrase "refurbished" implies that a seller has repaired the product and put it into good working condition, there's actually no legal definition of refurbished goods. ***As such, the expression can cover any number of scenarios, such as:

  • *******A brand new item that has been returned by a consumer who never used the product
  • A used item that has been repaired and reconditioned by the manufacturer or a third party
  • A demo unit
  • A new item that has damaged packaging”

As you can clearly see it states that “refurbished” also includes, “A brand new item that has been returned by consumer who never used the product OR a demo unit OR a new item that has damaged packaging. Bottom line is it is unlawful to advertise a used product for sale as “new” as per the Federal truth-in-advertising law, administered by the U.S. Federal Trade Commission. It’s the law.

While the phrase "refurbished" implies that a seller has repaired the product and put it into good working condition, there's actually no legal definition of refurbished goods. As such, the expression can cover any number of scenarios, such as:

  • ***A brand new item that has been returned by a consumer who never used the product
  • A used item that has been repaired and reconditioned by the manufacturer or a third party
  • A demo unit
  • A new item that has damaged packaging

***The basic rule for refurbished goods is that once a product is returned, it cannot be sold as new, even if the product was never used.

So, any of these items may be lawfully sold as "refurbished" for a fraction of the cost of a new item.

Selling Refurbished as New is a Type of Fraud

***Federal truth-in-advertising law, administered by the U.S. Federal Trade Commission, requires that refurbished and reconditioned items are properly labeled. ***This means that a seller cannot describe a returned or refurbished item as "new." Where a seller advertises a smartphone as new, for example, and in fact it has been used and refurbished, he could face criminal fraud charges, fines and jail time, if your local prosecutor deems the case worth pursuing. To get the ball rolling on such charges, you would have to file a police report. Criminal aspect aside, as a buyer, you can file a lawsuit against the supplier for misrepresentation. If successful, you will be able to cancel the transaction and at least get your money back, and your state may have a law that provides you with further money damages.”

”20.1 Deception generally.

(a) It is unfair or deceptive to represent, directly or by implication, that any industry product is new or unused when such is not the fact, or to misrepresent the current condition, or extent of previous use, reconstruction, or repair of any industry product.”

https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/16/20.1

Besides the Federal truth-in-advertising law, administered by the U.S. Federal Trade Commission, states also have their own laws protecting consumers of such unlawful practices.

"§ 20.0 Scope and purpose of the guides.

(a) The Guides in this part apply to the manufacture, sale, distribution, marketing and advertising (including advertising in electronic format, such as on the Internet) of parts that are not new, and assemblies containing such parts, that were designed for use in automobiles, trucks, motorcycles, tractors, or similar self-propelled vehicles, regardless of whether such parts or assemblies have been cleaned, repaired, reconstructed, or reworked in any other way (industry product or product). Industry products include, but are not limited to, airbags, alternators and generators, anti-lock brake systems, brake cylinders, carburetors, catalytic converters, differentials, engines, fuel injectors, hybrid drive systems and hybrid batteries, navigation and audio systems, power steering pumps, power window motors, rack and pinion units, starters, steering gears, superchargers and turbochargers, tires, transmissions and transaxles, and water pumps.

(b) These guides set forth the Federal Trade Commission's current views about the manufacture, sale, distribution, and advertising of industry products. The guides help businesses avoid making claims that are unfair or deceptive under Section 5 of the FTC Act, 15 U.S.C. 45. They do not confer any rights on any person and do not operate to bind the FTC or the public. The Commission, however, can take action under the FTC Act if a business makes a claim inconsistent with the guides. In any such enforcement action, the Commission must prove that the challenged act or practice is unfair or deceptive in violation of Section 5 of the FTC Act."

I guess if this was an car forum - it would be applicable...

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