dpreviewTV: EF-M 22mm F2 not "ideal" for the M6 Mk II?

RLight wrote:

nnowak wrote:

RLight wrote:

nnowak wrote:

That is your opinion, and as was recently shown, it is an opinion based on inaccurate information. How many posts did you make railing against DPReview claiming an anti-Canon bias because you believed Canon had a zero blackout EVF and Canon had it long before Sony?

True, I'm not perfect. I also acknowledged that point as I wasn't aware of the differences, which I was made aware.

None of us are perfect. We all make mistakes. Few problems though... It took multiple people correcting you over several days before you realized your mistake. This is not the only recent example of you misunderstanding technical details. A couple other examples... You are still posting that the M6 II has the best in class rolling shutter. Multiple times it has been pointed out that the X-T3 is 1ms faster. Yeah, 1ms is pretty meaningless, but only one of these can be "best". You have also made multiple posts claiming that only Canon had silent focusing STM lenses for video. Every mirrorless system has silent focusing stepper motor lenses, they just are not labeled with the STM acronym. Most importantly, you are using your misunderstood technical details as a basis for slandering DPReview's integrity.

I'll make myself clear: Where is your source of the 1ms advantage? It has the SAME sensor as the X-T30, I'm quoting DPR directly, still. Show me the metric from a source indicating the X-T3 has better rolling, my rolling shutter talk will stop if I concur with the source. (Maybe I missed it in the deluge of posts here lately? Maybe, I haven't read every response you've put on this forum in all transparency).

"Best of all, the company says the rolling shutter in both full width and cropped mode is just 16ms"

Quoted from here: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilm-x-t3/2

If this was just mixing up a few details when debating cameras, it wouldn't be a big deal. as I said, we all make mistakes. However, you have been repeatedly claiming an anti-Canon bias at DPReview and the basis of your claims is built on a foundation of wrong information. Basically, you are calling a whole group of people liars and your proof is your own lie. I do not think for a moment that you are intentionally spreading false information, but if you are going to attack the integrity of another person, you better be double sure you have your facts straight.

See above. We haven't established that yet.

The "dirty brand politics" sounds a bit slanderous and is just your opinion. I realize that you are loyal to Canon, but I believe that years of loyalty have clouded your judgement. Because you only shoot with Canon, you do not examine the reviews of other brands products as closely as you would a Canon review, or you don't read the other reviews at all. Sony and all of the other brands get plenty of criticism in the reviews here on DPReview, you're just not seeing it. Also, by only shooting with Canon, you are not fully aware of the capabilities of other systems. Every system has pluses and minuses. Without owning other systems, it is very difficult to appreciate the pluses of other systems. It seems that every person making the claim that DPReview has an anti-Canon bias is someone who has been using Canon gear exclusively for years and years.

Not true:

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/63107712

Did you happen to read Richard Butler's responses? He gave a very well reasoned explanations for the DPReview scores/awards and how they have very little to do with the pros/cons list.

I did. I did not find his response satisfactory. I completely agree you need to be subjective in regards to what you're comparing, that, is exactly what I've been doing here regarding the 22mm! You can't compare a EOS M50 for example against a X-T3 or A6600 which is in a different price point. But, I sure can compare it against say a Sony A6300, or compare a EF-M 22mm against a Sony 20 f/2.8.

You can compare the EF-M 22mm to anything you want, but the original question was whether or not the lens was sharp enough to fully exploit the pixel density of the M6 II.  The inferiority of the Sony 20mm f/2.8, or any other Sony lens, is irrelevant.

However, that response does not wholly encompass the OP's gripe, or mine. I think Richard tried to squash and justify, but didn't in fact address the chief complaint of consistency or that more weight should be given to feature sets as opposed to IQ alone

Richard said that IQ was a significant factor, but definitely not the only factor.  If feature sets were more heavily weighted as you suggest, the R probably would have scored even worse compared to the A7 III and Z6.  Compared the the Nikon and Sony, the R has the worst video, no IBIS, weird un-Canon UI, and the highest price tag.  For someone with no ties to the Canon ecosystem, it is a tough sell.

(and what about lens-IQ which Canon's been class leading with RF lenses?

I wouldn't just dismiss the Nikon Z lenses so quickly.  The RF lenses are currently a double edged sword.  Yes, the image quality is fantastic, but they are also some of the biggest and most expensive lenses out there.  I am sure the 28-70mm f/2.0 is fantastic, but it is a niche lens.  It may not have the "wow" factor, but Nikon's Z mount lineup is far more rational.  Personally, there are four Z lenses I would buy right now vs. only two in RF mount.  Nikon is every bit the optical master as Canon.  Eventually both of their mirrorless lens lineups will mirror each other across the board, just as their SLR lens lineups have.

What's good for the goose...). It's rather convenient that Canon sensors having been class trailing in IQ, and thus Nikon Sony will always have better rating.

There was a time when Canon was the leader for noise and dynamic range.

The criteria set by DPR discriminates against a brand on the basis of something I think most consumers for say the EOS M50, don't care about: the post-process latitude of the images when they're running off with JPEGs! Ditto can be said about other Canons (or Fuji for that matter which has wonderful SOOC JPEGs, but, it also has a Sony sensor in it).

In almost every review, DPReview praises the out of camera JPEGs from Canon cameras.

Ironically I'm coming around to Sony's SOOC JPEG colors with the advent of the A7RIV, they've been getting better.

DPReview has consistently criticized the out of camera JPEGs from Sony

Perhaps DPR should give more weight to things like that? But by the same token, if they give weight to it now, I'm going to cry foul too as they're moving the bar at convenient time, after, Sony's fixed it (SOOC Color and ergonomics have been advancing by Sony). This sort of thing happens all the time in dirty politics, again. I'm not sold. He's gonna have to explain more for me to bite. I do agree it's hard to navigate this stuff, it certainly is! But I do feel there is a bias underneath. But, in a review site, to the OP's point, that's perhaps unfitting where on a news site I expect it. This isn't CNN or Fox. Or maybe it is!

Years ago I was shooting with Nikon at the time when Canon was completely dominating image sensors.  If you read the Nikon forums back then there were plenty of people accusing DPReview of anti-Nikon bias.  Now the situation has reversed and people claim an anti-Canon bias.  If you read the m4/3 forums they claim their is a pro-full frame bias at DPReview.  Pentax users think there is a bias against their cameras and that they are being completely ignored.  Sony users think DXOMark is biased against them.  Basically, every single group that doesn't see their chosen camera lauded with unending praise believes the reviewer is biased against them.  If you believe that DPReview fairly reviews all cameras, except for Canon, there are plenty of people in the other forums that would disagree with you.