DXO: m4/3 vs. FF -- we have it good!

Started Sep 4, 2019 | Discussions thread
Raist3d Forum Pro • Posts: 42,252
Re: No, they are not

MEDISN wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

MEDISN wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

Gnine wrote:

Raist3d wrote:

where I do see a problem is the last sentence where you mention bigger, heavier and priced For some models and a range of focal lengths, that’s not quite the case This is unfortunate but it’s the train both Olympus and Panasonic have chosen

They've only gone that route, because the small/light/cheaper -and better quality options as well, are already nicely covered.

No, they are not. They don't use the better sensor, don't have PDAF, have other compromises. That's the problem. Then on top of that at the tier of competitors they look dated.

Competitors at which price point?

under $1k tier.

No Fuji has weather sealing for less than $1000.

True but neither does Olympus in a modern camera.

lol who defines "modern"? You?

Eh? Look at what I am replying. An EM5 mkii is how old now? Old sensor, no pdaf?

Tilt screens and IBIS have been around for some time and Fuji doesn't even offer them on several of the models you're promoting.

But they do offer them on other current models they are promoting. And IBIS is not as important as better AF/DR/ISO.  It's nice, but you can't stop movement with it.

Fuji offers 2 cameras with IBIS...one for for $1000 and weighs 673g, the other for $10k lol.

IBIS only gets you so far, where AF, DR./ISO takes more priority in many situations.

At equivalence the DR/ISO argument is out the window.

No, because it means the other system gives you the option of same DOF with same DR/ISO or better DR/ISO with shallower DOF.  So you keep more options open photographically.  And you don't need to buy F1.2 Pro lenses to get more light or the DOF you want in many cases.

Aside from the XT3 and XT30, I'm not sure anyone would choose a cheap Fuji for AF prowess lol

Except that the XT3 and XT30 are precisely Fuji modern cameras that sell now at competitive prices vs m43rds.  I mean, part of the point I am making, right? :-). The XT30 is under $1k after all.

The one for $1k beats hand-idly the EM1X at doing video and stills while still being smaller. So don't laugh too hard

Not if it's handheld video lol.

Yes, the X-H1 does that. Does what I said

There must be a reason the XH1 price has dropped like a rock since launch...and I think it's a very good camera.

Sure, there can be a reason. Yet the option is there. If you want to compare with original price, you still come out quite much more competitive and better for video than an EM1X.

Want a Sony with weather sealing? Ha! Want a Sony with IBIS? $1000. Want a Fuji that shoots 4K 30? $700.

$700 doesn't sound too bad. What exactly Olympus has here that is modern and small?

There are 7 cameras in the mFT lineup for less than $700. When Fuji finally catches up with simple things like IBIS we'll talk about modern.

It's funny how much weight is put on IBIS. It's the only excuse left really it seems.  The m43ds camera you talk about are using outdated sensors, no pdaf. Have worse resolution, DR, ISO IQ than the Fujis you talk about without IBIS.

I hate to tell this to you but lacking IBIS doesn't make a camera non modern If the sensor, AF, and other important image quality characteristics and speed are there.

If all you want is new and shiny, then right at this minute, new and shiny means bigger.

It's not about new and shiny, but about being competitive with the current level of tech. For example, you could get a Fuji X-E3 and in a nice range of focals, you compete in size and weight rather well, and in price.

Can I get one with a Bayer sensor, tilt screen and IBIS?

You can get one that has 24 MP, no AA filter, better DR, ISO, better 4k, better AF.

So no tilt screen or IBIS right? "Better AF" is highly subjective.

Better AF is not that subjective at all. I can tell you the PenF, OMD EM5 MK2, EPL9 are all a joke in continuous AF compared to a Fuji X-E3, let alone the X-T30.

The X-T30 has a tilt screen.

Or you can get an X-T30 for similar price, nice weight, 26 MP, even better AF, better 4k.

And still saddled with X-trans and poor ergonomics for larger lenses.

"Saddled with X-trans" is not necessarily a cons at all. Poor ergonomics, do you mean like an EM5 MKii with bigger lenses? Or the EPL9 with same? Or GX9?

No, no Bayer sensor, but that has its own pros too, not all cons.

So the answer is "Fuji doesn't make it". The XT30 is a fine camera if one is willing to put up with X-trans and the flat/thin body style.

Yes, Fuji doesn't make a Bayer. But I see your pickiness here a bit disingenous- x-trans has its advantages too. And it doesn't take away that it will do better DR/ISO/resolution/AF.

You also have options. Hell, Fuji even gives you tilt or fully articulated in some models. There's no m43rds body with such option today.

But, and it's a big but, we have options. Lots and lots of options. Way more than any Canikon have to offer in mirrorless at the moment.

I am not looking at Canon nor Nikon, but competitors like Fuji and Sony. Lots of options indeed

Options? Sure, but largely dependent on priorities. Fuji can be small and light if you're willing to live with the compromises.

Er. Apparently that's the problem of m43rds lately too. Point is, where are the modern small m43rds? A fuji X-E3 or X-T30 are quite modern, small and affordable.

Modern? They don't even offer IBIS and the XE3 has a fixed screen!

OMG! IBIS is not the mark of a modern camera alone! You can have really good AF/DR/ISO/speed.  X-T30 has an articulated screen- you can choose! And it still has the latest sensor, not a sensor from 7+ years ago.

Then add up the size/price of the standard primes (35,50,85 and throw in a 135 or macro), mFT is cheaper and lighter.

The size of the XF2.0 weather sealed small primes are pretty much in line with the m43rds ones.

Funny you mention lighter because a Fuji with these primes like the X-T30 or X-E3 is lighter than the Olympus EM5 Mii with similar.

Unfortunately their zooms are large and overpriced and their fastest primes lack weather sealing and are handicapped by slow/loud focus.

Not all primes. And the AF of Fuji has improved. Even the old XF35 F1.4 does pretty well on an X-E3, to my own surprise when I tried it.

The f/2 primes are faster, WR and virtually silent. The 1.4's are in dire need of an update.

Like I said, the F1.4 XF35 improved quite a bit on the X-E3 AF nailing shots in CDAF that a PenF would sorely miss . That on a notably cheaper camera may I add.

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Raist3d/Ricardo (Photographer, software dev.)- I photograph black cats in coal mines at night...
“The further a society drifts from truth the more it will hate those who speak it.” - George Orwell

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