Arizona July 15 2019

Started 2 months ago | Discussions thread
abiquiuense Senior Member • Posts: 4,008
Re: &c

Bill Borne wrote:

abiquiuense wrote:

Bill Borne wrote:

abiquiuense wrote:

Bill Borne wrote:

tbcass wrote:

Bill Borne wrote:

tbcass wrote:

After the other fantastic photos you've posted this is pretty bland. If this is typical of Arizona I'll pass.

You do that, Tom

Back in 1999 I spent 2 weeks in El Centro located in the Imperial Valley which was surrounded by a similar desert. I did a lot of exploring and found it interesting. It satisfied my curiosity to the point that I could care less if I ever see a desert again.

I never get tired of deserts etc

We all live in a yellow . . .

. . . well, we do, considering time travel where those yellow cliffs are under a sea, as mud.

Deserts are cool.

You can look at a forest but walk among the trees is inspiring. Same goes for deserts IMO? Just usually hotter.....


I just want you to know that you may cut in on my conversations any time that you want to. Just wish my friend with the coffee cups would show up.

Plenty room for elbows where they can't remember their names.

Great song

While I'm thinking of it what tribe are you from? Anazi?

I don't know which tribe I am from. I was going to place quotes on tribe, good Spirit knows, it deserves them. The "anasazi" are a myth.

I have not taken a dNA test, but, given the mitochondrial testing that we did that included females of my family, one of those tests being on one of my sisters, and other females of the pueblo, and their witness to my birth, (my elder cousins), and given the primary documents that link me to baptisms in the Pueblo, as far back as 1754, and given the "road maps" described by the anecdotal records, I'm, at least, inextricably linked to one of the "six grandmothers."

I don't think dNA pinpoints specific, consistently cohesive, ancient groups, per se. It also does not have markers for religion, nor specific language. (Speech, however, is hard wired into humans.) It does, however, tend to put all of our ancestors in Africa. I could have those markers from the mere fact that I'm Chinese, but, I'm only referring to those that I got from the Spaniards, they having made it to this side of the big puddle when they valued human life as chattel. So, a sizable chunk of me, is to be found in some stowaway, in Hernan Cortes' boat when he conquered the Azteca, and the other romantic Spaniards conquered Central and South America.

The Spaniards have always reminded us that we are "Indians." I thank them for that. I thank Bartolome de Las Casas, for the religion that he practiced, despite having the Pope's ear. He was a hero to the indigenous communities of Central and South America. No, not the North Americas. When he lived, and well ahead of the "Compilation of the Laws of the Kingdom of the Indies," the laws that formed our "Pueblo," of Santo Tomas Apostle de Abiquiu (1754,) Spain had not traveled to New Mexico. We were called Nueva Espana.

By 1754, hordes of people had come north from what would, in the next century be called Mexico. Abiquiuenses would then be called "Mexicans." That happened briefly.

In that brief time, Mexico made citizens of its indigenous communities. The communities whose paperwork reads like it came out of the "Recopilacion." And, that's how the UnitedStatesians found us; voting members of the "biracial" community called Mexico.

The "Indian Non-Intercourse Acts," six of them since 1790 to 1834, had all peoples in their special cubby hole. But, they didn't account for the Indigenous crowd who were brought in from Mexico with the UnitedStatesian War of 1846. By that time, SCOTUS had already committed to the recognition of International law. Read UNITED STATES V. PERCHEMAN, 32 U. S. 51 (1832)

The U.S. did not find Pueblo, nor the Nomadic peoples, participating in governance within the Mexican Department, that you now recognize as New Mexico.  And, if the participants representing a "Rio Arriba" are any indication, only the rich in specie, and rich in land, hacendados, participated.  Simply check out who General Kearney picked up as citizens to form the "Organic Government."

Back to your question; the odds are good that most of us in the Pueblo of Abiquiu, are Tewas.  Tewa is a language group; several distinct, yet different, pueblos speak Tewa. (It's important to note that the ground upon which Abiquiu is built, and its "walk in one day" surroundings, has always had human habitation.)

I do not know what the peoples on the Mesas of Arizona call themselves.  A distant ancestor, Jose Trujillo, around 1711, on a campaign against them, placed his name on "El Morro," next to the Spanish governor.  That campaign was called "The Moqui Campaigns."  They would travel to the mesas, and there they would find people from Abiquiu.  So, said the elders when UnitedStatesian ethnohistorians made their way there and asked the people at Hano, on 1st Mesa, a hop, skip, jump, from Walpi.  They are the "Hopi/Tewa."  But, I'm not relying on the Smithsonian to do my history.

I've read every baptismal entry made into the "Abiquiu Baptisms."  And, I've read the "Abiquiu Marriages," and other records of the Catholic Church.  As you read them, note the "vecindad," from which each child originated.  Tie this to the sixty percent plus dNA signature.

I think it describes a skunk.

What do you think?

Don't worry, KimoSabe, I got your back.

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