AI is just around the corner.

Started 4 months ago | Discussions thread
PhotoFactor Veteran Member • Posts: 3,167
Re: Which computation do you want?

tbcass wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

PhotoFactor wrote:

I'm saying that the jpeg processing in-camera/phone is better on the phone than my ILCs.

I don't think that's anywhere near universal. In-camera jpeg is very good now. That being said, even the best jpeg processing can't rescue jpeg beyond its limits.

Maybe his ICLs have poor JPEG processing. I find the JPEGs of all my cameras produce excellent results.

The Sony A6000 and the Olympus OMD-EM10ii are the bodies I am referring to.

My phone manages exposure and blowout better, with auto exposure, than my ILCs.

The point of an ILC is to give you control, even in auto mode. As for the smartphone doing a better job, don't really know about that as I have yet to use one that's better.

I suspect he lacks the skill to use his ICLs properly. It takes some knowledge and skill in using the camera to avoid blown highlights.

Ah the old skill argument. That's a typical response. I didn't say I couldn't play with settings to get a better result. I was using auto exposure with combinations of DRO and HDR in-camera, jpeg processing. Using all combinations of those settings, the phone did better. That's not to say that if I started deliberately underexposing I couldn't get the blowout reduced. But the DRO and HDR in-camera couldn't do that in any automatic modes. We're talking about auto processing sophistication here. OF COURSE you can do better with an ILC if you tweak, fiddle, adjust, tests, RAW, and PP. That takes a lot of time. For a quick auto shot, the phone is superior.

My phone stacks multiple under exposures automatically, in default shooting mode, to manage DR better than the default auto-exposure of my ILCs.

Comparing DR to auto exposure mode is hardly a fair fight.

Most cameras today are capable of stacking multiple exposures to produce auto HDR images if you choose to do so.

I did that.

Of course the ILC sensors have more DR but given the default jpeg processing

No, they just have more DR. Has nothing to do with the jpeg processing.

The phone increases DR through its assembly of multiple exposures into a jpeg. That's the processing and it has everything to do with it.

, the phone produces jpegs that have better DR management than my ILCs. With RAW processing, the ILCs are of course superior to the phone.

I think in most cases, unless you're very bad at judging exposure, even the jpeg is going to be better.

The camera is judging exposure, that is the test - auto mode on phone versus auto exposure on ILC. But even then (I didn't test), since I was already doing DRO and HDR, the Sony A6000 couldn't protect the highlights and still raise the shadows. If I had reduced the exposure the highlights wouldn't clip, but the shadows would be darker.

JPEG DR is fixed at 8 stops and is the same regardless of the smartphone or camera used. Generally Sensor DR is greater than JPEG DR. Larger sensors have greater DR than smaller ones. DR is greater at low ISO than high ISO.

All HDR does is squeeze an amount of DR that is greater than what a JPEG can show so it fits within the JPEG format. Smartphones, because of their poor sensor DR, must use multiple HDR images to just equal what larger images can with a single image. A larger sensor can capture as much DR in 3 images that it might take 6 or more with a smartphone. Using HDR larger sensor cameras are capable of capturing far more DR than any smartphone. HDR has limited usefulness because it can't be used on anything that is moving rapidly and even slow movement is problematic. It also isn't useful for rapid fire photography and can't be used for high speed bursts.

The difference is automatic processing of great superiority on the phone.

I don't think so. In all of the examples of how brilliant smartphones are, I'm still not seeing anything better than an ILC in skilled hands.

"In skilled hands" means tweak, fiddle, adjust exposure, adjust metering, adjust DRO, adjust HDR, adjust contrast, saturation". That's a lot of work. With default settings, the phone does better. The ILC takes a lot of time and needs PP to be better in challenging lighting situations.

Smartphones need superior processing just to come close to a larger sensor camera and even then there are limitations in the conditions it can be used. The larger sensor cameras just don't need it. Taking multiple images and then processing them slows the smartphone camera down. In the time a smartphone takes one image I can take many with even my slowest camera.

Correct. I can take burst photos but then the processing defaults to non- HDR+ mode.

However HDR+ happens in under one second so not really slowing anything down for single shots.

People who post their smartphone images showing how good they are never take ergonomics, speed, focal range, and extreme lighting conditions into account. If you take your time, if the conditions are right, if things aren't moving too fast, if it's within the focal range of the smartphone lenses and if you don't digital zoom in, crop heavily or print large a smartphone can produce acceptable results. Because of those limitations I find even the best smartphones inadequate for 90% of the things I photograph.

I qualified my original post that obviously the phone is worse than an ILC in inherent hardware abilities, has only 12MP, and a fixed focal length. Most people posting on DPR are fully aware of the limitations of the various hardware.

 PhotoFactor's gear list:PhotoFactor's gear list
Samyang 12mm F2.0 NCS CS Sony a6000 Olympus OM-D E-M10 II Sony E 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony E 50mm F1.8 OSS +5 more
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