Camera phones and YOU.

Started 2 months ago | Polls thread
57even Forum Pro • Posts: 13,584
Re: Fun with the phone camera

sportyaccordy wrote:

57even wrote:

The bottom end has always been built to a price, but used the same sensors and had the same IQ. Nothing new there.

The low end market is declining because people see no point in upgrading.

Right, there is nothing new at the low end.... so how does going from one low end camera to another constitute an upgrade?

There isn't much new at the top end either. And before you say 'AF' or 'Video' I may point out that those features are improving in all cameras, not just FF.

The FF market is ticking over because many people in that market will always buy the latest and greatest of everything, even though there's usually little point.

A rich sentiment from a guy who can't do anything less than an Ariel Atom to drive at the track

Could you rephrase that in English?

As far as there being no point to buying FF... you just said there's been no development on the low end. So there's one reason someone might upgrade to FF.

There's nothing magic about FF, but people who buy low end gear (Rebels etc) seldom upgrade beyond the kit lens.

Secondly, outside of Fuji, APS-C lens selection is abysmal. Pop quiz, show me some fast wide angle autofocus primes for Canon EF-S or Nikon DX.

Well, there were plenty of decent FF ones I could use. Shame most of the cameras were not that great.

By fast I mean F/2 or faster. I'll wait. Thirdly, FF has got cheap to the point that the incremental cost of upgrading is often minimal in the context of building a system. Being angry that you can't afford FF doesn't make people who buy it all clueless gadget junkies.

I had three FF cameras, D700, D600 and D800, so not sure what your point is.

As for clueless gadget junkies, your words not mine, but you do seem to have a chip on your shoulder about that.

In a recession, luxury cars seldom suffer much of a hit. People still trade them every few years, whether they need one or not. Newness is part of the game.

Either you are a liar or just proud to be ignorant. Of course luxury cars took a hit during the recession. I can overwhelm you with data if you like.

And when did the market start declining? What is your argument? Clearly is was the primary reason most people upgraded, because they are not upgrading any more.

You seem to define upgrading in the strictly narrow sense of replacing one's body with the latest version of it. I.e. an old Rebel to the latest one. That's not how it works. FF is thriving because the only people left buying cameras are upgrading-they are upgrading formats.

The ONLY people? Quite a few certainly, but what do they do once they upgrade? Upgrade to another FF camera I suppose, but why? Better AF? Better video? Sure, so why doesn't that same logic apply at other price points?

Because all those things are mostly fine already, for 99% of regular buyers. That's why.


And like I said, even sales of high-end phones are faltering. When you can get a very good phone for $100, not many people are that bothered about spending $700. When you talk about usability and convenience, you have to consider price as well.

People in the market for $700 phones are not looking at $100 phones, and vice versa... just like people in the market for D850s aren't cross shopping them against D3400s.

Statement of the obvious.

Plus faltering in the phone world means no longer growing. And even with that, the numbers are still massive.

No longer growing overall because sales of the top end models is dropping. The trajectory of phones is following everything else in the tech business before it. PCs, laptops, cameras, phones...

Apple still sells 200 million Iphones a year at $800 a pop...

So what? A lot of people use phones.

it's very possible 1 year of Iphone sales dwarf all DILC sales ever.

So what?

And on top of that ILC sales are in complete freefall. So smartphones are only relevant in terms of their impact on camera sales....

But if $100 phone buyers are not the same market as $700 phone buyers, what makes you think $700 phone camera users are the same market as ILC users?

smartphone sales are totally irrelevant in the context of cameras,

Exactly. So what do they have to do with declining ILC sales

Let me try bullet points since you obviously can't follow paragraphs:

Do you think insults will convince me?

  • High end shoppers are not swayed or interested in low end goods.

I'm sure you are not. What would your friends say?

  • Smartphones are not declining anywhere near how ILCs are declining, so likening the two declines is fallacious. 

No, but the curve will be similar over time. It's about 10 years behind right now. Most tech fads follow similar trends. But I guess you don't work for Gartner.

  • Smartphones are accelerating the decline of ILCs due to more and more people turning to them for photography, and either not upgrading their ILCs or never buying one in the first place.

The impact of phones (specifically) on ILCs is unknowable, and probably mostly at the bottom end, which of course is where all the sales volume was (though not margins).

But Canon and Nikon are not having much luck with mirrorless right now, and no-one is buying DSLRs because they are dead tech. Bet that's not helping.

Against my better judgment, I'll give you one last chance to make a cogent reply.... otherwise you are getting blocked.

You can ignore me if you like. That would suit me, as you are rather a dull conversationalist.

You can't block me though, you are not a moderator.

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