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It's industrial sabotage
- Thread starter stephen s brown
- Start date
G
Gillis Danielsen
Guest
How is it that everytime i read a post that starts "at a local camera-store" i allready get ready for a giggle, these camera store clerks usually seem to be full of bs!
"don't buy the 10d, next week tehre will be a 10mp FF 8fps body for the same price!"
etc.etc.
I don't understand their motives everytime either...
well... go figure...
But you know what's a "scary" though? not many years ago the information from the store clerks was all a photographer could get, except that monthly photo magazine... nowadays any lens or camera body that hits the market is tested throughly on the net by several people... which is kind of good, roots out a part of the biasing.
I am not saying that there is no trolls on these forums, there are many, but there was and is a focus issue, no matther what.
"don't buy the 10d, next week tehre will be a 10mp FF 8fps body for the same price!"
etc.etc.
I don't understand their motives everytime either...
well... go figure...
But you know what's a "scary" though? not many years ago the information from the store clerks was all a photographer could get, except that monthly photo magazine... nowadays any lens or camera body that hits the market is tested throughly on the net by several people... which is kind of good, roots out a part of the biasing.
I am not saying that there is no trolls on these forums, there are many, but there was and is a focus issue, no matther what.
stephen s brown
Senior Member
Actually Pearl, I just submitted the post because the conversation amused me and I thought others would enjoy it. The post does not ridicule anyone.
In my mind there is no double standard. I appreciate the point counter point discussions. Just don't like the name calling.
Good Pearl, now I can see you have a sense of humor.
Steve
--
I had to move up when I couldn't get flash bulbs for the Brownie anymore.
http://www.pbase.com/stevebrown
Vern Stevens
Leading Member
Say what you want, and I believe you do so because you dislike his politics and opinions, but he is not an idiot. And I don't know if you have noticed lately, but he isn't as fat as he used to be either. As far as other topics for discussion, there's Hillary (who will I don't care for her politics, I believe is smarter or more savvy than her hubby), Dashell, Kennedy, and a host of other Democrats / Liberals to keep Republican / Conservative commentary going. Clinton just gave such a wealth of material. Now conservatives have to work a little harder because the environment isn't so "target rich" without Clinton as a major player.
That said, he definetly screwed the pooch with his comment on ESPN, not because they were racist, but because they were political in a sports forum. And, if the authorities have probable cause that he broke the law to obtain his drugs (as is alleged), he should be arrested and tried. In my opinion, it seems to be few and fair between that you will hear a Dem/Lib propose that one of their own be tried. They SEEM to be quick to come to the defense and try to squash it. Whereas I, and at least some other Rep/Cons are saying, if he did something wrong, hold Rush accountable. And Rush held himself accountable by resigning so quickly, realizing his comments were not appropriate for the arena he was in. If he was someone like Gray Davis, he'd be fighting to stay on the show. This is my perspective of the situation anyway.
Using terms like "big fat idiot" and one trick pony tend to suggest your comments are more born from emotion than reason. But I may be wrong, hence the word "suggest".
VES
My pictures may only be worth 500 words, but I'm taking a Photographic English Composition course.
Grateful for any constructive criticism regarding my photos, composition, lighting, technique, etc.
http://www.pbase.com/vsteven
That said, he definetly screwed the pooch with his comment on ESPN, not because they were racist, but because they were political in a sports forum. And, if the authorities have probable cause that he broke the law to obtain his drugs (as is alleged), he should be arrested and tried. In my opinion, it seems to be few and fair between that you will hear a Dem/Lib propose that one of their own be tried. They SEEM to be quick to come to the defense and try to squash it. Whereas I, and at least some other Rep/Cons are saying, if he did something wrong, hold Rush accountable. And Rush held himself accountable by resigning so quickly, realizing his comments were not appropriate for the arena he was in. If he was someone like Gray Davis, he'd be fighting to stay on the show. This is my perspective of the situation anyway.
Using terms like "big fat idiot" and one trick pony tend to suggest your comments are more born from emotion than reason. But I may be wrong, hence the word "suggest".
VES
--
My pictures may only be worth 500 words, but I'm taking a Photographic English Composition course.
Grateful for any constructive criticism regarding my photos, composition, lighting, technique, etc.
http://www.pbase.com/vsteven
DavidP #28649
Forum Pro
Those who think he's a conservative are. LOL. Of course, those same people think Dubya is a conservative.
--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.
--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.
Vern Stevens
Leading Member
It's nice to fill it out with some substance. Why, in your opinion, is Rush NOT a conservative, as interpreted in the modern political arena?
VES
My pictures may only be worth 500 words, but I'm taking a Photographic English Composition course.
Grateful for any constructive criticism regarding my photos, composition, lighting, technique, etc.
http://www.pbase.com/vsteven
VES
--
My pictures may only be worth 500 words, but I'm taking a Photographic English Composition course.
Grateful for any constructive criticism regarding my photos, composition, lighting, technique, etc.
http://www.pbase.com/vsteven
DavidP #28649
Forum Pro
Rush thinks Dubya is conservative.
Dubya has raised gov't spending.
Dubya has increased the Fed's role in public schooling.
Need I go on?
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.
Dubya has raised gov't spending.
Dubya has increased the Fed's role in public schooling.
Need I go on?
--
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Extrapolation from few solid data points is best left to those with years of training and experience in such things.
Kevin Quinlan
Well-known member
I'm suprised a local camera store would tell you something like that. Its not like they sell these products anyway ... cough cough.
Pearl Rider
Senior Member
Yeah, it's amusing. It's also used an insult if you say that to some people here.
Doing that IS name-calling. It's a way to diminish the credibility of the person who opposes your viewpoint.
I actually cracked a joke? Oh... my... God. ;-)
Vern Stevens
Leading Member
Yes, you need to go on, because you are discribing Bush, not Rush. Not to mention that his labeling of Bush as a conservative may be wholly relative to the rest of the US political landscape.
After years of listening to Rush and how he would have the government run, his ideas, not his opinion of one person, are definetly along conservative lines. Also, you might consider that there can be shades of conservatism. Someone can be basically, or largely conservative, and have a few ideas that stray outside of that realm. Like most folks, people don't always fit into the square boxes that make labeling easy. Some do though.
VES
My pictures may only be worth 500 words, but I'm taking a Photographic English Composition course.
Grateful for any constructive criticism regarding my photos, composition, lighting, technique, etc.
http://www.pbase.com/vsteven
After years of listening to Rush and how he would have the government run, his ideas, not his opinion of one person, are definetly along conservative lines. Also, you might consider that there can be shades of conservatism. Someone can be basically, or largely conservative, and have a few ideas that stray outside of that realm. Like most folks, people don't always fit into the square boxes that make labeling easy. Some do though.
VES
--
My pictures may only be worth 500 words, but I'm taking a Photographic English Composition course.
Grateful for any constructive criticism regarding my photos, composition, lighting, technique, etc.
http://www.pbase.com/vsteven
Vern Stevens
Leading Member
It's easy enough to find articles on the 'net to condemn Rush right now. What is more difficult is to find an article like this. Here's a different take:
http://slate.msn.com/id/2089193/
VES
My pictures may only be worth 500 words, but I'm taking a Photographic English Composition course.
Grateful for any constructive criticism regarding my photos, composition, lighting, technique, etc.
http://www.pbase.com/vsteven
http://slate.msn.com/id/2089193/
VES
--
My pictures may only be worth 500 words, but I'm taking a Photographic English Composition course.
Grateful for any constructive criticism regarding my photos, composition, lighting, technique, etc.
http://www.pbase.com/vsteven
David, you couldn't be more wrong if you tried. Have you even listened to Rush in the last two years? Every huge spending bill that Bush has signed (education bill written by Ted Kennedy, Farm Bill, etc.) as well as the other horrible bills he has signed into law including the campaign finance reform bill, have been CRITICIZED by Rush. Rush spoke out against all of those items and the way Bush is handling them. Get your facts straight.
Nice one Ira. I guarantee 100% that you have NEVER listened to Rush's show ONCE. You think Rush is racist why? Because he thinks that people should be judged on the content of their character rather than the color of their skin? That's what Rush believes. Don't you?
If you knew what you where talking about, you would know he went from 20 stations to over 500 stations during the first Bush Administration, but as most people that hate him, you spout lies along with your hatred. I wont comment on this anymore as this is a photo forum so go ahead and call me all the names you want, I'll have a good laugh over it.
Joshua Dearing
Senior Member
Bill,
That "image issue" is a matter of personal prefearance.. the focus problem is a real world issue...its not what a camera does great, its about if you can live with the problems it has. I am not a guy to tout his equiptment... I could care less what I or any other person shoots with.
Taking good photos most of the time has nothing to do with image quality.. look at the guys taking amazing photos with the prosumer cameras.
thanks for listening
--
[ - - ]
joshua dearing
[email protected]
http://www.dearingfilm.com
That "image issue" is a matter of personal prefearance.. the focus problem is a real world issue...its not what a camera does great, its about if you can live with the problems it has. I am not a guy to tout his equiptment... I could care less what I or any other person shoots with.
Taking good photos most of the time has nothing to do with image quality.. look at the guys taking amazing photos with the prosumer cameras.
thanks for listening
--
[ - - ]
joshua dearing
[email protected]
http://www.dearingfilm.com
Vern Stevens
Leading Member
Actually, the point of point-counterpoint (or a debate / argument) IS to discredit the opposing side, or the opinion of the opposing side. Why else would you take an opposing position, if you didn't think the other person is wrong? And why would you engage in debating them if you didn't seek to prove them wrong (i.e. discredit)? That can easily be down when the facts and circumstances support one position or the other. However, name-calling is somewhat different, and detracts from the debate entirely.
I think his statement was valid.
VES
That myth about Rush's popularity being tied to Clinton will never die. Rush has been hugely popular ever since 1989 and has continued to grow during the first Bush presidency, Clinton, and now Bush II. The only big fat idiot I see anywhere is Al Franken. He must outweigh Rush by about 50 pounds. And for those who don't know, Rush has been fit and trim now for about 4 years. If you didn't know that, you don't know squat about Rush OR what he believes in, no matter what kind of twaddle you spout.
Pearl Rider
Senior Member
I guess I look at that sort of thing (accusing someone of working for Canon, Nikon, etc) as a step taken when you CAN'T refute their facts. It's a cheap shot... dirty politics... mud slinging. Basically, they lost and aren't going to go down gracefully... if at all.
That's the name of the tactic.
Essentially it's a last-resort argumentative technique for those who cannot come up with a factual or logical counter to a point you've made. Lacking any reasoned rebuttal, they instead seek to make your argument weak by attacking things not relevant to the discussion. Some examples would be to attack one's spelling, one's background, or other such things. Accusing their opponent of being "on so-and-so's payroll" is just another example of an ad hominem attack.
Generally, I see someone resorting to such an attack as a sign that they've been out-argued and/or are wrong but can't admit it to themselves.
For more info, see here: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Ad%20Hominem
-- Lew
Any DSLR beats unexposed film.
Essentially it's a last-resort argumentative technique for those who cannot come up with a factual or logical counter to a point you've made. Lacking any reasoned rebuttal, they instead seek to make your argument weak by attacking things not relevant to the discussion. Some examples would be to attack one's spelling, one's background, or other such things. Accusing their opponent of being "on so-and-so's payroll" is just another example of an ad hominem attack.
Generally, I see someone resorting to such an attack as a sign that they've been out-argued and/or are wrong but can't admit it to themselves.
For more info, see here: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Ad%20Hominem
-- Lew
--
Any DSLR beats unexposed film.
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