Focus Bracketing on A7Riii -- Sony, I'm done waiting!

jonpais said:

woodyggg said:

jonpais said:

ZilverHaylide said:

I've decided that focus bracketing (at least focus bracketing; ideally, also focus stacking) will occasionally be so useful to me that I won't buy any future camera without it. For macro/close-up, I'm not going to lug a powered focusing rail into the field, and for longer-distance focus bracketing, such a device wouldn't help anyway.

I think it's absurd that Sony hasn't implemented focus bracketing and/or stacking on the A7Riii. I can get it on the Nikon Z6, Z7, and D850, on the Panasonic G9 and the upcoming S1/S1R, on the Fuji X-T2, X-T3, and X-H1, on the Olympus OM-D E-M1ii, OM-D E-M5ii, and OM-D E-M10ii, and on the Canon RP. Many of those cameras cost A LOT LESS than a Sony A7Riii. Given that reality, how many people here think it's indefensible for Sony to not provide focus bracketing on the A7Riii?

So what's up with Sony? Has anyone here heard anything specific about it being available in a future firmware update, and if so, when? Or do people think that Sony is deliberately holding off at providing it so that they can make a future A7R-4 more attractive?

If the latter, they are treating customers and potential customers with contempt -- and that in itself would make me want to go with a different brand. Even if that wasn't the case, I may have to go with a different brand simply because I've just about reached the end of how long I can wait for focus bracketing to appear on Sony.

Come on, Sony! Surely you know that people want that feature, and that your competitors have it. And it wouldn't be difficult to implement, it's not artificial intelligence, just a few code loops and tests against counter and limits, and a slight change in the menus.

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I think you should have done your homework first. It’s absurd the X-T3 and EOS R don’t have IBIS; it’s absurd the Sr1/S1 don’t have PDAF; it’s absurd the X-T2 didn’t have zebras when I purchased it; it’s absurd that the RIP doesn’t have dual pixel AF in 4K and no 1080 24p; it’s absurd that I can’t see zebras and peaking at the same time when shooting video with the Z cameras. Why does the X-T3 only record 720p with their remote app? Come on, Panasonic, Fuji, Nikon and Canon! I wonder if they’re all holding out just to make us buy their next model? Why are they treating us with such contempt?

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Wait, they can add IBIS with a simple FW update!?!?!?!? If so, you would be correct!

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IBIS is 1000 times more useful than focus bracketing. Zebras, 24p, and 4K with the remote app - features we take for granted - are also fixable with FW updates, but it hasn’t happened. But the point is more about the hysterical tone of the post and trash talking Sony. I could go to the Canon, Nikon, Panasonic and Fuji subforums and write angry posts about missing features, talk about how those companies treat photographers like redheaded stepchildren and how I’m changing systems, but that isn’t going to change anything. No need to freak out about it, typing in bold and so on. BTW What’s up with all the exclamation marks? Key stuck?

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"IBIS is 1000 times more useful than focus bracketing."

Never said it wasn't, and not at all my point.

Nope... key wasn't stuck, quite intentional.

techjedi said:

ZilverHaylide said:

I've decided that focus bracketing (at least focus bracketing; ideally, also focus stacking) will occasionally be so useful to me that I won't buy any future camera without it. For macro/close-up, I'm not going to lug a powered focusing rail into the field, and for longer-distance focus bracketing, such a device wouldn't help anyway.

I think it's absurd that Sony hasn't implemented focus bracketing and/or stacking on the A7Riii. I can get it on the Nikon Z6, Z7, and D850, on the Panasonic G9 and the upcoming S1/S1R, on the Fuji X-T2, X-T3, and X-H1, on the Olympus OM-D E-M1ii, OM-D E-M5ii, and OM-D E-M10ii, and on the Canon RP. Many of those cameras cost A LOT LESS than a Sony A7Riii. Given that reality, how many people here think it's indefensible for Sony to not provide focus bracketing on the A7Riii?

So what's up with Sony? Has anyone here heard anything specific about it being available in a future firmware update, and if so, when? Or do people think that Sony is deliberately holding off at providing it so that they can make a future A7R-4 more attractive?

If the latter, they are treating customers and potential customers with contempt -- and that in itself would make me want to go with a different brand. Even if that wasn't the case, I may have to go with a different brand simply because I've just about reached the end of how long I can wait for focus bracketing to appear on Sony.

Come on, Sony! Surely you know that people want that feature, and that your competitors have it. And it wouldn't be difficult to implement, it's not artificial intelligence, just a few code loops and tests against counter and limits, and a slight change in the menus.

Click to expand...

Its not what you want, but a simple worm driven manual rail works well enough and is trivial to use if you are setting up a tripod in the wild. Yeah, you have to turn the knob a few times to perform your bracket, but it is precise with nearly no effort and lightweight. Maybe it gets you by until Sony gives you what you want.

This one has worked really well for me and slides into the pocket quite nicely:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MR8NA5E

The big knob is fast action movement and the small knob is precise movement.

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sorry, but not a good defense... sony should have this feature at this point in time. i'd miss many shots having to do all that....

I could not agree more with this post!! Come on Sony....deliver!!

I agree, been waiting for 3.5 years now since entering into FE. In the meantime, get the Panasonic 30/2.8 or Olympus 60/2.8 depending on preferences and a small and cheap Panasonic or Olympus body with it. The price and weight is about the same as the Sony 90/2.8.

woodyggg said:

techjedi said:

ZilverHaylide said:

I've decided that focus bracketing (at least focus bracketing; ideally, also focus stacking) will occasionally be so useful to me that I won't buy any future camera without it. For macro/close-up, I'm not going to lug a powered focusing rail into the field, and for longer-distance focus bracketing, such a device wouldn't help anyway.

I think it's absurd that Sony hasn't implemented focus bracketing and/or stacking on the A7Riii. I can get it on the Nikon Z6, Z7, and D850, on the Panasonic G9 and the upcoming S1/S1R, on the Fuji X-T2, X-T3, and X-H1, on the Olympus OM-D E-M1ii, OM-D E-M5ii, and OM-D E-M10ii, and on the Canon RP. Many of those cameras cost A LOT LESS than a Sony A7Riii. Given that reality, how many people here think it's indefensible for Sony to not provide focus bracketing on the A7Riii?

So what's up with Sony? Has anyone here heard anything specific about it being available in a future firmware update, and if so, when? Or do people think that Sony is deliberately holding off at providing it so that they can make a future A7R-4 more attractive?

If the latter, they are treating customers and potential customers with contempt -- and that in itself would make me want to go with a different brand. Even if that wasn't the case, I may have to go with a different brand simply because I've just about reached the end of how long I can wait for focus bracketing to appear on Sony.

Come on, Sony! Surely you know that people want that feature, and that your competitors have it. And it wouldn't be difficult to implement, it's not artificial intelligence, just a few code loops and tests against counter and limits, and a slight change in the menus.

Click to expand...

Its not what you want, but a simple worm driven manual rail works well enough and is trivial to use if you are setting up a tripod in the wild. Yeah, you have to turn the knob a few times to perform your bracket, but it is precise with nearly no effort and lightweight. Maybe it gets you by until Sony gives you what you want.

This one has worked really well for me and slides into the pocket quite nicely:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MR8NA5E

The big knob is fast action movement and the small knob is precise movement.

Click to expand...

sorry, but not a good defense... sony should have this feature at this point in time. i'd miss many shots having to do all that....

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Actually, I had typed a more snarky response first that matched the "defense" title, but then I realized it wasn't worth it and just offered the manual rail to be helpful. I forgot to change the title. Oh well.

Tuloom said:

ZilverHaylide said:

Given that reality, how many people here think it's indefensible for Sony to not provide focus bracketing on the A7Riii?

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This isn't even in the realm of indefensible.

For that you start with the histogram not being based on reality.

The lack of a RAW based histogram is the only indefensible issue and it's shared by every camera maker.

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Not Betterlight. But they're not shipping anymore. And then there's Magic Lantern...

techjedi said:

Its not what you want, but a simple worm driven manual rail works well enough and is trivial to use if you are setting up a tripod in the wild. Yeah, you have to turn the knob a few times to perform your bracket, but it is precise with nearly no effort and lightweight. Maybe it gets you by until Sony gives you what you want.

This one has worked really well for me and slides into the pocket quite nicely:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MR8NA5E

The big knob is fast action movement and the small knob is precise movement.

Click to expand...

Moving the whole camera doesn't work very well in the 1:10 to 1:2 region. Focusing with the lens will provide fewer stacking artifacts then. The high road is leaving the lens alone and moving the sensor, but that's hard to carry off if you want automation of the shifting.

Jim

Perhaps someone clever can come up with a software hack to add the feature for Sony users? Maybe even sell it at a modest price ready loaded on a SD Card. Is that possible? It seems there are some clever people out there.

https://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/camera-firmware-hacks/

JimKasson said:

techjedi said:

Its not what you want, but a simple worm driven manual rail works well enough and is trivial to use if you are setting up a tripod in the wild. Yeah, you have to turn the knob a few times to perform your bracket, but it is precise with nearly no effort and lightweight. Maybe it gets you by until Sony gives you what you want.

This one has worked really well for me and slides into the pocket quite nicely:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MR8NA5E

The big knob is fast action movement and the small knob is precise movement.

Click to expand...

Moving the whole camera doesn't work very well in the 1:10 to 1:2 region. Focusing with the lens will provide fewer stacking artifacts then. The high road is leaving the lens alone and moving the sensor, but that's hard to carry off if you want automation of the shifting.

Jim

Click to expand...

I have seen a YouTube video of using three or four different focusing points for a landscape but it did require a lot of faffing about using expensive software like LightRoom and Photoshop.

21William said:

JimKasson said:

techjedi said:

Its not what you want, but a simple worm driven manual rail works well enough and is trivial to use if you are setting up a tripod in the wild. Yeah, you have to turn the knob a few times to perform your bracket, but it is precise with nearly no effort and lightweight. Maybe it gets you by until Sony gives you what you want.

This one has worked really well for me and slides into the pocket quite nicely:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MR8NA5E

The big knob is fast action movement and the small knob is precise movement.

Click to expand...

Moving the whole camera doesn't work very well in the 1:10 to 1:2 region. Focusing with the lens will provide fewer stacking artifacts then. The high road is leaving the lens alone and moving the sensor, but that's hard to carry off if you want automation of the shifting.

Click to expand...

I have seen a YouTube video of using three or four different focusing points for a landscape but it did require a lot of faffing about using expensive software like LightRoom and Photoshop.

Click to expand...

Landscapes aren't usually in the 1:10 to 1:2 region. OTOH, if the landscape is not in motion, then combining multiple shots is usually pretty simple. I prefer to use stitching software to stacking software for that.

I’ve just found this, looks like there was an app to do it until Sony pulled the plug on PlayMemories for current cameras.


Why would Sony remove functionality for their cameras?

21William said:

I’ve just found this, looks like there was an app to do it until Sony pulled the plug on PlayMemories for current cameras.

Why would Sony remove functionality for their cameras?

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Since you posted the question as a response to a post of mine, I'll take a few guesses:

• Support issues?
• Worry about hacking?
• Apps never gained sufficient traction?
• Use confusion?
• Performance issues?

Jim

Sorry, I tried to edit my post as I just found this but you’d already replied.

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4218792

I really hope Sony are working on a replacement as this is yet another reason to choose Sony in my opinion.

More details of the app if you have a supported camera.

jb12 said:

paul wassermann said:

I suggest you drop Sony and use cameras that meet your needs as you have already identified. This is not a feature that many Sony users would find useful.

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Why are you defending sony so blindly? Do you own Sony shares? I always had sony cameras, but I dont care about the company.. as correctly pointed out, sony deserves criticism here.

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Not defending Sony, just responding to the op who stated "Focus Bracketing on A7Riii -- Sony, I'm done waiting!" What is that a threat? If he is not happy with this lacking feature, go somewhere else...he's going to anyway as he is done waiting (and Sony hasn't provided the feature).

I have more important things (for me) to wait for, like animal eye focus which I know is coming...and of course all the other manufacturers have it already don't they?

ZilverHaylide said:

I think it's absurd that Sony hasn't implemented focus bracketing and/or stacking on the A7Riii. I can get it on the Nikon Z6, Z7, and D850, on the Panasonic G9 and the upcoming S1/S1R, on the Fuji X-T2, X-T3, and X-H1, on the Olympus OM-D E-M1ii, OM-D E-M5ii, and OM-D E-M10ii, and on the Canon RP. Many of those cameras cost A LOT LESS than a Sony A7Riii. Given that reality, how many people here think it's indefensible for Sony to not provide focus bracketing on the A7Riii?

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Sony is going to sell you this feature in their MK4 series. Wait for it. LOL!

For me, this feature is useless as I don't use it at all since my first DSLR in 2004. Not even useful for outdoor insect or floral macros as the wind is always swaying them. But if you do lots of product shoots, this feature becomes very useful.

So it is a good to have thing, not deal breaker. Having said that however, I would like to see Sony do a customizable approach, ie. customers can download a paid app for that specific feature they want/need.

ZilverHaylide said:

paul wassermann said:

I suggest you drop Sony and use cameras that meet your needs as you have already identified. This is not a feature that many Sony users would find useful.

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As to how many Sony users would find the feature useful, I don't think it's clear, and even if it was, things change.

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yes - SmartPhones will soon be the most comfortable way to photograph - in the advent of 3..4 cameras in different focal lengths many people will stop using smaller cameras and maybe also larger ones since the results are good enough and you can add almost all thinkable features by an APP

ZilverHaylide said:

Once upon a time, automobiles rarely had automatic transmissions,

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Dependent on the car probably less attractive - even the new Corvette has a manual gearbox offer for the fans - so for certain cars it's not a positive feature - I test drove my Porsche with an automated gearbox - what a step back - no way I'd like that ;-)

ZilverHaylide said:

air conditioning,

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Makes the car heavier - many ultra sports care don't have an orderable air-condition

ZilverHaylide said:

power windows,

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Ferrari F40?

ZilverHaylide said:

power door locks,

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adds no significant further weight => o.k. for a sports car

ZilverHaylide said:

variable-speed windshield wipers... .

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I only drive at dry weather conditions with my sports car

ZilverHaylide said:

Now we consider them normal, in fact, most people would consider them essential.

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Not for all cars and this is where your assumptions are wrong. Horses for courses!

ZilverHaylide said:

The same might well be true for camera focus bracketing, once customers get a taste of it.

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While I would not mind it at all to have this features included in the A7R III. I might never use I'd want other things to be done first like:

• built in invervalometer (edit: done)
• better Imaging Edge software for my MAC (edit: in preparation)
• APP for my iPad with similar functionality to the one on the MAC (edit: done)
• Easy Tethering with the iPad vita WiFi (edit: done)

And I guess we will see that happening in April / May time frame (edit: correct!)

ZilverHaylide said:

At introduction, all those above-mentioned automotive features cost significant money to include, and that helps explain why widespread adoption of them took considerable time.

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The car industry has almost no progress in perceivable speed, acceleration or fuel consumption. My Ford Fiesta Diesel in 1985 consumed < 4 L / 100 km (~60 mpg) when driving economically.

Thus they need to add features the make you want to buy a new car while the old one still would do the job ;-)

In the camera industry we are still far from the physical limits of the cameras thus they concentrate on optimizing the basic feature like DR, resolution, fps and most of all AI in combination with AF - I am very happy about animal AF and better Eye-AF for humans!

ZilverHaylide said:

For basic focus bracketing, all it should take is at most a day or two of programming, and a further bit of testing.

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Sure - but what if they spent this time in a better AF algorithm?

I guess you'd find more friends for this idea - we can all only assume what's behind the doors of Sony's engineering department - but I guess there are not hundreds of engineers but maybe a few dozen busy working

ZilverHaylide said:

(And I'm old enough to know what I'm talking about, my first computer language was Algol-W. With modern object-oriented programming, implementation should be easy.)

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The word easy hardly comes to my mind with cameras - all has to work with the least amount of battery - testing is probably also not that easy and we see that some FW updates of easy functions must be patched since even easy functions don't work that easy and reliable

ZilverHaylide said:

I think you are letting Sony get off far too easily. I'm talking about a feature that with a tiny bit of explanation I think many people would find useful, and which Sony could implement with little cost.

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Sure - make a petition and I'll sign it in case you add: "make an aperture ring on ALL lenses" since this is my most important wish to Sony - makes handling so much easier and people who want to fiddle around with the small dial in front of the camera body can simply ignore it ;-)

ZilverHaylide said:

That they haven't yet done so speaks volumes about what they think of customers. Customers should not think so little of themselves.

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Sony is adding many features I really like in April/May time frame for my A7R III - and I'll get a nice APP for my iPad PRO for tethering, controlling and new features vial Software - nice!

--
__________________________________
A7R III - one camera to rule them all
ISO 9000 definition of quality: 'Degree to which a set of inherent characteristic fulfills requirements'
I am the classic “Windows by Day, Mac by Night user'
“The horizon of many people is a circle with zero radius which they call their point of view.” Albert Einstein
"In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." Douglas Adams

Sean O'Connor said:

I’m hoping Sony’s new Bluetooth remote ‘RMT-P1BT’ is indicative of new focus protocols for remote focus. It seems that this remote can adjust the focus thru Bluetooth. I’d love to see iPhone apps that could automate focus bracketing.

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This video shows the new RMT-P1BT in action. About 10 minutes in he is focusing back and forth with the remote. I also proves that the new camera firmware will support apps driving focus if they use the new protocol.

Have also been waiting for focus bracketing for a while now. I use a StackShot indoors for macro work, but anyone who shoots landscapes on a tripod, especially with a medium to long telephoto and wants everything sharp usually needs focus bracketing. Doing it by hand is hit or miss as it is hard to make the necessary tiny adjustments to the MF ring.

If any mfr is listening, one other request - when bracketing, skip a frame number before and after the series so you can tell where it starts and ends.

Has focus stacking built in as well as ND filters built in at 1/3 the price, I also have the A7 Riii and agree with the OP focus stacking should standard especially if you do a lot of macro work as I do it be there. I have had several of the camera's the OP mentioned and found it a must have when doing insects.

ZilverHaylide said:

paul wassermann said:

I suggest you drop Sony and use cameras that meet your needs as you have already identified. This is not a feature that many Sony users would find useful.

Click to expand...

As to how many Sony users would find the feature useful, I don't think it's clear, and even if it was, things change. Once upon a time, automobiles rarely had automatic transmissions, air conditioning, power windows, power door locks, variable-speed windshield wipers... . Now we consider them normal, in fact, most people would consider them essential. The same might well be true for camera focus bracketing, once customers get a taste of it.

At introduction, all those above-mentioned automotive features cost significant money to include, and that helps explain why widespread adoption of them took considerable time. For basic focus bracketing, all it should take is at most a day or two of programming, and a further bit of testing. (And I'm old enough to know what I'm talking about, my first computer language was Algol-W. With modern object-oriented programming, implementation should be easy.)

I think you are letting Sony get off far too easily. I'm talking about a feature that with a tiny bit of explanation I think many people would find useful, and which Sony could implement with little cost. That they haven't yet done so speaks volumes about what they think of customers. Customers should not think so little of themselves.

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Sony have many features that others don't and many others have features that Sony don't. My answer to focus-stacking is to have another camera that does have it. In my case I have several but my favourite for this feature is the Panasonic GX80. Is there a particular need to choose one over the other, apart from cost, when you can have both?