for all FF BS, fuji told the real story, 1/3 market by value, by unit much lower Locked

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bobn2
bobn2 Forum Pro • Posts: 61,125
Re: Well my A7 II 5 axis IBIS is nowhere close to my EM1 MKII????

MEDISN wrote:

bobn2 wrote:

richarddd wrote:

cba_melbourne wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Mark Ransom wrote:

VideoPic wrote:

Because there are NO standard, anyone can slap an IBIS logo on a camera and claim its like an Olympus camera.........

In reality, no gets close to what Olympus and now Panasonic achieves......

Excuse me?

http://www.cipa.jp/image-stabilization/index_e.html

Huh......????

You say "there are NO standard", I give you a link to the standard.

Mark, I did not read that document in every detail, just had a very quick browse through it. So i may be wrong....

But... it looks to me, this is only about optical and electronic image stabilization systems. Not sensor shift systems like IBIS.

The test setup only moves the camera in pitch and jaw. Optical IS systems can not correct rotation, hence they do not test this. But this standard would make optical IS look better than it is, compared to IBIS..

Is there a separate CIPA standard for sensor shift stabilization? Or did I overlook something?

Olympus uses the CIPA numbers in its marketing. If the standard was understating the benefits of Olympus's IBIS, I'd think they'd find a way to say so rather than just touting its own results.

The real problem with this kind of standard is that products end up getting designed to get good scores according to the standard's tests, rather than doing a good job.

In academics we refer to it as "teaching to the test". Misses the point of education entirely but test scores are good!

Ironically for our friend, Olympus is a past master at this, and has worked out how to extract the last EV from CIPA ratings.

Agreed, but why not report 7-stops IBIS if you can? That's what goes in to marketing materials and reviews. Do sensor designers not try to squeeze every bit of DR, MP, read-out speed from sensors because reviews and tests regurgitate these metrics? In the end, the cameras have excellent IQ which is probably what's important to the targeted buyer.

I don't disagree. Olympus has very cute marketing and of course it's going to play everything just as well as it can. I have absolutely no argument with that. I do end up having arguments with people who insist on swallowing it whole.

I have my own issues with the CIPA test, I don't think it looks well related to the effectiveness of IS in real practice.

100% agree. It's as good as any standard I can think of but doesn't tell you much in your hands, at focal lengths you shoot. Much like CIPA battery life metric for MILC vs DSLR. Very much depends on how you're shooting.

There are also very few people who have rigorously enough tested their IS to say definitively that X is better than Y. There's a whole load of confirmation bias going on.

Perhaps. Someone like me who shoots both Sony and Olympus side-by-side for years notice differences in effective stabilization just like noticing difference in resolution and dynamic range when working in post. A9 for example markets *5-stops* IBIS, and I'm sure there is a test that confirms this. Does anyone get 5-stops IBIS with any regularity with it? I can't! But 2-3 stops is often "good enough", just as 20MP and 10EV PDR on mFT is often "good enough".

1:1 crops from Sony A9 and EM1mkII at ~ 85mm AOV. ISO's adjusted to maintain correct exposure. A9 looks quite good down to 1/10s (3-stops). EM1mkII down to 0.8s (6-stops).

Not the sort of test that impresses me much. Why? Because I think IS is mostly about hit rate. So an example of one run were the Olympus is this good and the Sony is that good is hardly convincing. At least CIPA does try to look at the statistics of stabilisation, rather than a single run. The other thing is that the effectiveness of different stabilisation systems depends on the exposure time. I'm much more interested in something that can get my long lens down from 1/1000 to 1/30 than I am something that can take 1/80 down to 1 second. I don't shoot that many things where the subject is still for 1 second.

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Ride easy, William.
Bob

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