Northrup's conclusion "All purpose family camera for mums.."

Volodja · Feb 6, 2019

Ebrahim Saadawi said:
I am a very positive EOS owner and I don't find one sentense in their review that I don't agree with. It's fairly accurate really.

The portion on the camera's video capability/case usage is pretty accurate.

What are we not agreeing with in their video? (Apart from the clickbaity/sensationalism required for any successful youtube business?)

One thing I strongly disagree with is how they show a Sony A7II and say the AF performance is close to these last generation models, which is absolutely coming from an untested POV. The A7II AF SUCKS, even in good light with still subjects, while here we have a 5666 point AF area with accurate Eye AF and actual working video AF. All of this translate into a much more advanced AF system than last gen Sonys. Not to mention -6 EV AF. In lowlight it beats even last gen Sonys/Nikons.

You are right, for example, AF performance and its low light capability were not only underrated but not even disclosed.

But something other bothers me in this and many other comparable reviews that few people talk about. Proper review, filmed or written needs time investment. How far canone push the gear, dymanic range, color science, where this tool can do its best. It wasn’t shown/delivered what professional can achieve with this camera because there was no professional behind the camera. Thier last reviews are rather show a la “ How we cannot handle the new gear”, see an example of Nikon Z6 review etc.

The camera is very cabable and its sensor potential wasn’t shown. Instead, we listen something like “ the camera isn’t for camera geek as we are, we bough it to film video and we use it when we don’t need high quality video.” Who cares? Do a proper review! Provide quality edited and converted from raw stills, look on flickr what others were able to capture using EOS R. Those pictures are far from what moms and dads are photographing. In the end of the day, invite professional photographer, film behind scene and interview him. We will get much more valuable and applicable advices from those who use photography to live from not for 20 min long YouTube video to have next possibility to ask for couple of subscribers and get some clicks. I hope, I answered your question.

Volodja · Feb 6, 2019

paulmedusa said:
saynomore said:

Raucous Raven said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

I think they just reposted an old video. That came out when the camera was first released.

Greg.

Click to expand...

They posted videos earlier on specific aspects of the EOS R (some referenced in this video) but I hadn't seen this one before.

I'm not sure that his "all purpose family camera for moms and dads" was meant as dismissively as it's being taken in this thread. That statement seems to have been made at least in part based on their using and enjoying it for that purpose while traveling and they stated that it and the 24-105 “might be the best setup you can get” for that purpose.

Click to expand...

The way the title was selectively cropped in this thread makes it seem like they were being a bit sexist and also snobbish and condescending. This makes more sense.

Edit: I also wonder if the omission of a link was deliberate. The tile of the video is literally:

Canon EOS R Review: Better than you think!

Well there goes all the being negative for clickbait theory.

Click to expand...

Thank you for this explanation. I never watch video reviews and I dislike youtube. So you see how people with a page title can tempt you to say thngs that are not good. nice boy this poster?

Thank you for feedback. If you don’t watch the video, you didn’t miss much. I deliberately excluded link from post to avoid adding extra clicks to that content.

I have no intention to crop or deliver different or false meaning of the content. Thread and naming is rather for those who watched the video and not to advertise to do so.

But there are many T@C fans and some of them, see post you answered to, probably belong to that auditory.

Mikeys · Feb 7, 2019

sobrien said:
Sounds like the kind of ill-informed, sensationalist clickbait that I have come to associate with that YouTube channel. No idea why you would take it seriously or, worse still, encourage anyone else to watch it.

havanna60 · Feb 7, 2019

The Better than you think review from Tony & Chelsea Northrup was really interesting review. I absolutely respect their opinion, the EOS R is really a controversial camera, and their review was mirrored this very nicely. Canon classified this camera as "professional mirrorless", and the Northrups opinion is that this camera falls short in a number of areas, at the same time they praised all of its excellent features. I don't agree every point of their conclusion, but I highly respect their opinion. Tony Northrup is a reviewer and photographer who, unlike 95% of the other youtube reviewers, understands photo-maths and doesn't mess megabits per second with megabytes per second.

The other reviewers I highly respect because of their knowledge and competence are Gerald Undone and Johnnie Behiri Again, I don't agree everything they say, but their reviews are always a joy to watch.

skysi · Feb 7, 2019

click-bait, click-bait, click-bait

mcslsk · Feb 7, 2019

Miki Nemeth said:
The Better than you think review from Tony & Chelsea Northrup was really interesting review. I absolutely respect their opinion, the EOS R is really a controversial camera, and their review was mirrored this very nicely. Canon classified this camera as "professional mirrorless", and the Northrups opinion is that this camera falls short in a number of areas, at the same time they praised all of its excellent features. I don't agree every point of their conclusion, but I highly respect their opinion. Tony Northrup is a reviewer and photographer who, unlike 95% of the other youtube reviewers, understands photo-maths and doesn't mess megabits per second with megabytes per second.

The other reviewers I highly respect because of their knowledge and competence are Gerald Undone and Johnnie Behiri Again, I don't agree everything they say, but their reviews are always a joy to watch.

What exactly was intersting about that review? Just mainstream repetition, packed into a nicely made video so that it can run in the background. Didn't see them mention one thing that was original.

Rawpaul · Feb 7, 2019

Volodja said:
Ebrahim Saadawi said:

I am a very positive EOS owner and I don't find one sentense in their review that I don't agree with. It's fairly accurate really.

The portion on the camera's video capability/case usage is pretty accurate.

What are we not agreeing with in their video? (Apart from the clickbaity/sensationalism required for any successful youtube business?)

One thing I strongly disagree with is how they show a Sony A7II and say the AF performance is close to these last generation models, which is absolutely coming from an untested POV. The A7II AF SUCKS, even in good light with still subjects, while here we have a 5666 point AF area with accurate Eye AF and actual working video AF. All of this translate into a much more advanced AF system than last gen Sonys. Not to mention -6 EV AF. In lowlight it beats even last gen Sonys/Nikons.

Click to expand...

You are right, for example, AF performance and its low light capability were not only underrated but not even disclosed.

But something other bothers me in this and many other comparable reviews that few people talk about. Proper review, filmed or written needs time investment. How far canone push the gear, dymanic range, color science, where this tool can do its best. It wasn’t shown/delivered what professional can achieve with this camera because there was no professional behind the camera. Thier last reviews are rather show a la “ How we cannot handle the new gear”, see an example of Nikon Z6 review etc.

The camera is very cabable and its sensor potential wasn’t shown. Instead, we listen something like “ the camera isn’t for camera geek as we are, we bough it to film video and we use it when we don’t need high quality video.” Who cares? Do a proper review! Provide quality edited and converted from raw stills, look on flickr what others were able to capture using EOS R. Those pictures are far from what moms and dads are photographing. In the end of the day, invite professional photographer, film behind scene and interview him. We will get much more valuable and applicable advices from those who use photography to live from not for 20 min long YouTube video to have next possibility to ask for couple of subscribers and get some clicks. I hope, I answered your question.

Tony Northrup is a self proclamed Camera geek,

Not a fotografer …

havanna60 · Feb 8, 2019

mcslsk said:
Miki Nemeth said:

The Better than you think review from Tony & Chelsea Northrup

Click to expand...

What exactly was intersting about that review?

It was interesting since it was from one of the most respected and far the most popular photo-gear channel about Canon's first full-frame mirrorless camera.

Member said:
Just mainstream repetition, packed into a nicely made video so that it can run in the background.

This wasn't meant to be a technical review, rather than a recap/summary and opinion. It was interesting how Chelsea and Tony Northrup positioned the camera; again, it doesn't mean I agree with everything they said, no absolutely not; but, it was definitely interesting how they evaluated the camera, and I really respect their opinion, they have over 1M subscribers on a channel that is about photography gear, completely respectable, I think.

Member said:
Didn't see them mention one thing that was original.

Actually, you are right, they didn't mention any new feature that I hadn't been aware of before; still, their summary and conclusion was interesting to me.

For example, as far as I know, they haven't tested the camera's 10-bit 4K external C-Log function, a professional videography feature from a Canon camera, which is not available in 5DmIV nor in 1DXmII. On the other hand they evaluated it as a camera for sports photography since it was advertised as "professional mirrorless", and they found that other Canon cameras from Canon's DSLR range a lot more performant in this area.

mcslsk · Feb 8, 2019

Miki Nemeth said:
mcslsk said:

Miki Nemeth said:

The Better than you think review from Tony & Chelsea Northrup

Click to expand...

What exactly was intersting about that review?

Click to expand...

It was interesting since it was from one of the most respected and far the most popular photo-gear channel about Canon's first full-frame mirrorless camera.

"Most respected" Where does that come from? And even if: Why does that make it interesting?

havanna60 said:
havanna60 said:

Just mainstream repetition, packed into a nicely made video so that it can run in the background.

Click to expand...

This wasn't meant to be a technical review, rather than a recap/summary and opinion. It was interesting how Chelsea and Tony Northrup positioned the camera; again, it doesn't mean I agree with everything they said, no absolutely not; but, it was definitely interesting how they evaluated the camera, and I really respect their opinion, they have over 1M subscribers on a channel that is about photography gear, completely respectable, I think.

Look at the follower numbers of a certain President. Don't think that those numbers have anything to do with "respectable". Entertaining, at most.

havanna60 said:
havanna60 said:

Didn't see them mention one thing that was original.

Click to expand...

Actually, you are right, they didn't mention any new feature that I hadn't been aware of before; still, their summary and conclusion was interesting to me.

For example, as far as I know, they haven't tested the camera's 10-bit 4K external C-Log function, a professional videography feature from a Canon camera, which is not available in 5DmIV nor in 1DXmII. On the other hand they evaluated it as a camera for sports photography since it was advertised as "professional mirrorless", and they found that other Canon cameras from Canon's DSLR range a lot more performant in this area.

If one defines "speed" (as in: action/sports) as major criterion for "professional camera".

paulmedusa · Feb 8, 2019

Miki Nemeth said:
mcslsk said:

Miki Nemeth said:

The Better than you think review from Tony & Chelsea Northrup

Click to expand...

What exactly was intersting about that review?

Click to expand...

It was interesting since it was from one of the most respected and far the most popular photo-gear channel about Canon's first full-frame mirrorless camera.

havanna60 said:

Just mainstream repetition, packed into a nicely made video so that it can run in the background.

Click to expand...

This wasn't meant to be a technical review, rather than a recap/summary and opinion. It was interesting how Chelsea and Tony Northrup positioned the camera; again, it doesn't mean I agree with everything they said, no absolutely not; but, it was definitely interesting how they evaluated the camera, and I really respect their opinion, they have over 1M subscribers on a channel that is about photography gear, completely respectable, I think.

havanna60 said:

Didn't see them mention one thing that was original.

Click to expand...

Actually, you are right, they didn't mention any new feature that I hadn't been aware of before; still, their summary and conclusion was interesting to me.

For example, as far as I know, they haven't tested the camera's 10-bit 4K external C-Log function, a professional videography feature from a Canon camera, which is not available in 5DmIV nor in 1DXmII. On the other hand they evaluated it as a camera for sports photography since it was advertised as "professional mirrorless", and they found that other Canon cameras from Canon's DSLR range a lot more performant in this area.

Bhotoz · Feb 8, 2019

paulmedusa said:
saynomore said:

Raucous Raven said:

Astrophotographer 10 said:

I think they just reposted an old video. That came out when the camera was first released.

Greg.

Click to expand...

They posted videos earlier on specific aspects of the EOS R (some referenced in this video) but I hadn't seen this one before.

I'm not sure that his "all purpose family camera for moms and dads" was meant as dismissively as it's being taken in this thread. That statement seems to have been made at least in part based on their using and enjoying it for that purpose while traveling and they stated that it and the 24-105 “might be the best setup you can get” for that purpose.

Click to expand...

The way the title was selectively cropped in this thread makes it seem like they were being a bit sexist and also snobbish and condescending. This makes more sense.

Edit: I also wonder if the omission of a link was deliberate. The tile of the video is literally:

Canon EOS R Review: Better than you think!

Well there goes all the being negative for clickbait theory.

Click to expand...

Thank you for this explanation. I never watch video reviews and I dislike youtube. So you see how people with a page title can tempt you to say thngs that are not good. nice boy this poster?

I usually don't watch video reviews either. They are too long and boring. Takes too much time. I prefer to read them. Easier to find the information I want by reading.

boldcolors · Feb 8, 2019

Miki Nemeth said:
Canon classified this camera as "professional mirrorless", and the Northrups opinion is that this camera falls short in a number of areas

Did Canon really do that? If I remember correctly they actually claimed that the R shouldn't in any way replace your existing gear. It should be considered as an additional camera - something new and an introduction and doorman to the RF-system. The big stars of the show were of course the 50/1.2 and 28-70/2.

Even when the first rumours about the EOS R with IBIS and 4K were announced, I wasn't impressed. The lenses got my attention.

havanna60 · Feb 8, 2019

paulmedusa said:
Did you sell your Sony A9?

Yes along with all my expensive gear. Nearly a year ago. I've just wanted to give me a break from photography and videography.

paulmedusa said:
A week ago you said that the R was a ~~ridiculous c~~amera

I don't remember I wrote this, it's really flattering that you are listening to what I wrote; a week ago I posted My List of Features to Get a Canon EOS R and I really placed my order, I am expecting the camera next week.

paulmedusa said:
and that you never wanted 2 cameras, the A9 and the eos R. Please can you be more clear?

I placed my order for EOS R along with knowing all its limitations I was able to collect and learn. In my career it was a couple of times when I had two camera bodies, EOS R with A5100. I am planning to buy the A6400, too, as replacement for my A5100. I wonder if Metabones is going to make a "Canon RF to Sony E" (RF-NEX) adapter. Canon was smart to make its RF flange distance 2mm longer than Sony E mount.

Wildabobalore · Feb 8, 2019

henrikbengtsson said:
Miki Nemeth said:

Canon classified this camera as "professional mirrorless", and the Northrups opinion is that this camera falls short in a number of areas

Click to expand...

Did Canon really do that? If I remember correctly they actually claimed that the R shouldn't in any way replace your existing gear. It should be considered as an additional camera - something new and an introduction and doorman to the RF-system. The big stars of the show were of course the 50/1.2 and 28-70/2.

Even when the first rumours about the EOS R with IBIS and 4K were announced, I wasn't impressed. The lenses got my attention.

If more people realized this, all of the collective whining on the internet about the R would cease to exist.

It seems like everyone expected Canon to completely replace their entire DSLR lineup overnight with every feature and the lowest price points.

paulmedusa · Feb 8, 2019

Miki Nemeth said:
paulmedusa said:

Did you sell your Sony A9?

Click to expand...

Yes along with all my expensive gear. Nearly a year ago. I've just wanted to give me a break from photography and videography.

havanna60 said:

A week ago you said that the R was a ~~ridiculous c~~amera

Click to expand...

I don't remember I wrote this, it's really flattering that you are listening to what I wrote; a week ago I posted My List of Features to Get a Canon EOS R and I really placed my order, I am expecting the camera next week.

havanna60 said:

and that you never wanted 2 cameras, the A9 and the eos R. Please can you be more clear?

Click to expand...

I placed my order for EOS R along with knowing all its limitations I was able to collect and learn. In my career it was a couple of times when I had two camera bodies, EOS R with A5100. I am planning to buy the A6400, too, as replacement for my A5100. I wonder if Metabones is going to make a "Canon RF to Sony E" (RF-NEX) adapter. Canon was smart to make its RF flange distance 2mm longer than Sony E mount.

Thank you for the explanation.

Larawanista · Feb 8, 2019

Volodja said:
Hello Canon EOS R community!

Few days ago in Nikon forum we were discussing opinions on T@C N review of Z6. Opinions most of real Z-system users where very different and facts presented in video were actually not confirmed.

Today they released review on Canon EOS R.

Would be nice to hear thoughts of people who spent more time shooting with camera and used it professionally on those critical points from the review.

The image quality of EOS R is something I've made money from. Quite similar RAW headroom with that of the 5DMIV. The functionality in general makes it suitable for a lot of paid work on portrait, landscape, etc. For sports and action oriented stuff, I tend to default to my 5DMIV because of how balanced it feels with my longer lenses. Other than that, there's hardly anything else that my 5DMIV can do that the EOS R can't.

Volodja · Feb 8, 2019

Noogy said:
Volodja said:

Hello Canon EOS R community!

Few days ago in Nikon forum we were discussing opinions on T@C N review of Z6. Opinions most of real Z-system users where very different and facts presented in video were actually not confirmed.

Today they released review on Canon EOS R.

Would be nice to hear thoughts of people who spent more time shooting with camera and used it professionally on those critical points from the review.

Click to expand...

The image quality of EOS R is something I've made money from. Quite similar RAW headroom with that of the 5DMIV. The functionality in general makes it suitable for a lot of paid work on portrait, landscape, etc. For sports and action oriented stuff, I tend to default to my 5DMIV because of how balanced it feels with my longer lenses. Other than that, there's hardly anything else that my 5DMIV can do that the EOS R can't.

Thank you for valuable feedback and sharing of your experience!

Rawpaul · Feb 8, 2019

Noogy said:
Volodja said:

Hello Canon EOS R community!

Few days ago in Nikon forum we were discussing opinions on T@C N review of Z6. Opinions most of real Z-system users where very different and facts presented in video were actually not confirmed.

Today they released review on Canon EOS R.

Would be nice to hear thoughts of people who spent more time shooting with camera and used it professionally on those critical points from the review.

Click to expand...

The image quality of EOS R is something I've made money from. Quite similar RAW headroom with that of the 5DMIV. The functionality in general makes it suitable for a lot of paid work on portrait, landscape, etc. For sports and action oriented stuff, I tend to default to my 5DMIV because of how balanced it feels with my longer lenses. Other than that, there's hardly anything else that my 5DMIV can do that the EOS R can't.

The strange thing is that people who really used the Eos R are mostly positive.

And people who haven't , all find something to wine about... mmm makes me wonder :-|

olstrup · Feb 9, 2019

Rawpaul said:
Noogy said:

Volodja said:

Hello Canon EOS R community!

Few days ago in Nikon forum we were discussing opinions on T@C N review of Z6. Opinions most of real Z-system users where very different and facts presented in video were actually not confirmed.

Today they released review on Canon EOS R.

Would be nice to hear thoughts of people who spent more time shooting with camera and used it professionally on those critical points from the review.

Click to expand...

The image quality of EOS R is something I've made money from. Quite similar RAW headroom with that of the 5DMIV. The functionality in general makes it suitable for a lot of paid work on portrait, landscape, etc. For sports and action oriented stuff, I tend to default to my 5DMIV because of how balanced it feels with my longer lenses. Other than that, there's hardly anything else that my 5DMIV can do that the EOS R can't.

Click to expand...

The strange thing is that people who really used the Eos R are mostly positive.

And people who haven't , all find something to wine about... mmm makes me wonder :-|

Really? All people not using Canon R? I use Sony A7X because it works for me and it's what I have been invested in for 4 years (Nikon SLR before that and at rare occations now), but I believe the Canon R and Nikon Z are excellent cameras which I could just as happily use. We are lucky these days that there are very few bad cameras out there and most often it's small performance margins and ergonomic details which separates them. Almost all of them can give great results in the hands of users posessing basic photographic workmanship.

analogue · Feb 9, 2019

Miki Nemeth said:
For example, as far as I know, they haven't tested the camera's 10-bit 4K external C-Log function, a professional videography feature from a Canon camera, which is not available in 5DmIV nor in 1DXmII. On the other hand they evaluated it as a camera for sports photography since it was advertised as "professional mirrorless", and they found that other Canon cameras from Canon's DSLR range a lot more performant in this area.

Could you please point at where Canon has advertised EOS R as "professional mirrorless" camera?

Neither on the product page or official brochure do words "professional" get mentioned about the camera. The only time "professional" is mentioned is when speaking about the RF mount which they say is robust enough for professional telephoto lens use.

What type of shooter Canon actually do say EOS R is for:

Whether capturing landscapes or wildlife, wedding portraits or dance performances, the EOS R is an advanced and impressive imaging tool that's primed to deliver the stunning photos and videos that photographers, moviemakers and any visual storytellers need to make their stories fly.

Notice they don't mention sports photography. So why on earth assume it is oriented towards that type of shooting?

And even worse, why assume that because it isn't a great tool for sports, that it isn't suitable for any other professional use, and therefore a "mom & dad" camera?!

That's a pretty absurd conclusion, don't care how many subscribers you got.

I don't dislike T&C btw, but as of late they have definitely made some questionable statements stirring up a lot of controversies & clickbait type formulas.

Not very "professional" in my book!

Getting back to EOS R, the camera uses the same full frame sensor as the 5DIV, which Canon does consider:

Versatile in virtually all kinds of light and any shooting situation from print and wedding to full-bleed magazine spreads and other commercial or fine art use

Again no mention of sports, but the sensor quality alone seems to be able to produce "professional quality" imagery. And I'd have to agree with that.

On the video side, it's a little more tricky. As a professional videographer myself, I definitely value three things: Dual Pixel AF (still the best video AF in the industry), C-Log & 10-bit out.

EOS R makes a great B-cam to my Cinema series cameras (as it does to 5D/1DX for stills)

The Rolling Shutter in 4K is a little more problematic but as long as you do steady shots or use a gimbal or tripod, you're ok.

Finally, the most professional aspect of EOS R system in my opinion is not really the bodies, it is the lens system.

With the new RF lenses that'll be announced next week, we'll have in just a couple months an almost complete professional prime & zoom lineup that actually surpasses their EF L equivalents.

Can't really say as much for the other competing FF mirrorless systems.

Northrup's conclusion "All purpose family camera for mums.."

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