One Godox V860II versus buying two TT685

I'm looking at these and the price of one LiON flash plus (mostly mandatory) spare battery is the exact same as buying two battery powered versions. $220.

Yes, incrementally faster recycle times w/LiON - and no juggling batteries. Is there a noticeable loaded weight difference?

How many pops does a TT685 get on new batteries? The V860 claims 650 or so. I'm thinking when AA batteries die - pop another unit on! If one flash breaks - there's a backup on hand.

I'm 95% sure but - Can someone confirm - these flashes do xmit 2.4 radio - so can also act as controllers for other Godox lights (AD200)

I have both the regular and pro transmitters already for this system. But having the transmitter built into an on camera flash one can also bounce/fill which might be really good for events.

Any comments to tip the scale would help. The LiON version I'm leaning towards would be really ideal - but its hard to ignore two AA versions for the same price as one. Buying one of each - with the AA one as a backup is of course another option, but I'd like to avoid.

Ms Bigglesworth said:

I'm looking at these and the price of one LiON flash plus (mostly mandatory) spare battery is the exact same as buying two battery powered versions. $220.

Yes, incrementally faster recycle times w/LiON - and no juggling batteries. Is there a noticeable loaded weight difference?

How many pops does a TT685 get on new batteries? The V860 claims 650 or so. I'm thinking when AA batteries die - pop another unit on! If one flash breaks - there's a backup on hand.

I'm 95% sure but - Can someone confirm - these flashes do xmit 2.4 radio - so can also act as controllers for other Godox lights (AD200)

I have both the regular and pro transmitters already for this system. But having the transmitter built into an on camera flash one can also bounce/fill which might be really good for events.

Any comments to tip the scale would help. The LiON version I'm leaning towards would be really ideal - but its hard to ignore two AA versions for the same price as one. Buying one of each - with the AA one as a backup is of course another option, but I'd like to avoid.

Click to expand...

I like having backup, especially given the Godox reputation. This was part of my thinking in opting for multiple 685s over a single AD200. Plus the flexibility. I can team multiple flashes into a single umbrella or softbox, or I can split them up for more varied lighting.

My extended portrait and boudoir sessions typically go around 250 to 300 pops and I never have to change AAs -- but I'm using two flashes in my main softbox and running them around 1/4 power.

Yes, both models have transmitters and can be used as controllers.

AAs and chargers will be around more or less forever. Godox batteries and chargers will be around as long as they make them -- could be years, could be months. You're probably good for the life of the flash, but I'd buy a backup charger to have on hand.

The big disadvantage I see to AAs is something like weddings or events, where you need to keep going for many hours and hundreds of flashes. Not only are you having to change batteries, you're juggling 4 batts instead of one. I have visions of a dropped AA rolling across the dance floor during the reception -- and the lawsuit when the bride steps on it and breaks her ankle.

Just my thoughts.

Gato

I heard one or both of these have a plastic foot that's prone to breakage. Maybe someone knows if it's been fixed/updated? In any case redundancy is a good thing if you're needed to 100% rely on it.

Another idea is, if you have the 2 transmitters and AD200 - get another AD200 instead? Unless the flash has to be on camera of course....

Is say it frankly depends upon how much you expect to use them. I had AA flashes and was happy with them... until I needed a large number of multi-flash photos. I then realized that juggling 22 AA's (!) was becoming next to impossible, one set always seemed to be on the way out, needing a recharge.

That's when i went to Godox LiOn.

I believe it is only the Sony versions that have the plastic foot -- more or less required to deal with the extra contact Sony uses.

EDIT: I have also read that Sony foot replacements are readily available and easy to install -- a Sony user might keep a spare on hand.

I used to use three flashes powered by four AA batteries each, plus two AA batteries for the trigger. I’d also have a spare set of batteries to both ensure I wouldn’t run out of power , and also to keep recycle times down — the recycle time start to go up long before the batteries are dead. I used to spend an entire day charging my batteries using one four-cell and one eight-cell battery charger/conditioner.

I am so happy to not have to deal with charging and swapping AA batteries anymore, and I can’t imagine going back. I replaced my flashes with two AD200’s, one V860ii, and a AD600 Pro.

According to Godox you get approximately 230 full power flashes from a set of 2500mA hour Ni-MH batteries.

Godox - Thinklite TTL Camera Flash TT685N

I rarely use over 1/4 power when doing portraits with my Nissin Di860 GN 60 flash. The TT685 also has a GN of 60 which means, conservatively, about 800 flashes on a set of batteries.

I would recommend having two flash units if you are doing a lot of flash photography so you have one as a backup.

Thank you everybody - some very helpful replies and insights.

One last question - At a venue like pictured below in the evening - Am I doing overkill here if I planned the bounce the hot shoe flash in TTL nearly straight up and simultaneously trigger an AD200 in a 36" softbox being aimed (HLS style) towards the subjects in TTL mode?
IOW - maybe the hot shoe flash alone is good enough - Or the AD200 via trigger is plenty. The hope is to get a lot of ambient and just light to fill so it doesn't look like deer in the headlights.

It is 95% for mobile/event shooting so I'm probably going to go with the LiON version - although pricier - the nightmare of having to changing batteries at a critical moment is real.

It happens I am using Sony A7xx so that info was useful.

For backup - I'll still have both the pro+regular transmitters which can trigger my AD200s
I also have a Sony hot shoe flash - in case of emergency.

While redundancy is very good - and I practice it with most everything - I'm also trying to keep it simple and efficient. Less moving parts, and less parts to move and manage is good.




Room w/approx. 200 people

Ms Bigglesworth said:

Thank you everybody - some very helpful replies and insights.

One last question - At a venue like pictured below in the evening - Am I doing overkill here if I planned the bounce the hot shoe flash in TTL nearly straight up and simultaneously trigger an AD200 in a 36" softbox being aimed (HLS style) towards the subjects in TTL mode?
IOW - maybe the hot shoe flash alone is good enough - Or the AD200 via trigger is plenty. The hope is to get a lot of ambient and just light to fill so it doesn't look like deer in the headlights.

It is 95% for mobile/event shooting so I'm probably going to go with the LiON version - although pricier - the nightmare of having to changing batteries at a critical moment is real.

It happens I am using Sony A7xx so that info was useful.

For backup - I'll still have both the pro+regular transmitters which can trigger my AD200s
I also have a Sony hot shoe flash - in case of emergency.

While redundancy is very good - and I practice it with most everything - I'm also trying to keep it simple and efficient. Less moving parts, and less parts to move and manage is good.

Room w/approx. 200 people

Click to expand...

It really depends on what's going on.

Are the subjects going to be moving around? There's no way you're going to light this whole space with what you've got. How will you handle unlit background areas? Drag the shutter to expose them with ambient, or let them go black?

If the subjects aren't moving, how close can you position a light on a stand? If it's not pretty close, a softbox will just waste power.

With single moving subjects (e.g. on a dance floor), I use a speedlight with disc-shaped softbox in my left hand as key light at close range and a speedlight on-camera for fill and set exposure so ambient is 1-2 stops under. If it's a group performance in a restricted area, perhaps two speedlights on stands, bounced off the ceiling, to light an area up to about 30' wide and 10' deep. If the stands must be positioned more than, say, 15' away, forget bounce and go direct.

Thanks very much for the reply. I think the plan was to go up to ISO800-1600 and maybe drag the shutter to lift ambient and reduce the flash power - with FEC to tweak. But I want to use TTL. So shutter speed changes may not do much to affect things.

Here are a couple of direct links to images that would be sort of representative for the first event upcoming. Except maybe softer - these look like almost bare flash.

Example 1 Example 2

Interesting you're thinking the AD200+softbox plus a V860II combo might not be a good bet. (The AD200 on a tall pole/stand would be an assistant tracking the lens direction standing near to my shooting position) I would be shooting 24mm at the widest during this part of the event. I was thinking the AD200 might be too hot so it would need to be feathered to bounce towards the ceiling more than direct aim.

I have other lights I could position on stands in corners to fire off of optical triggering. But I'm hoping to avoid this. I don't need to light the entire room - just kind of as shown by the examples.

Look at Neil van Niekerk's website, he has a post where he did exactly what you're planning to, and covers it nicely. It might help.

Ms Bigglesworth said:

Thank you everybody - some very helpful replies and insights.

One last question - At a venue like pictured below in the evening - Am I doing overkill here if I planned the bounce the hot shoe flash in TTL nearly straight up and simultaneously trigger an AD200 in a 36" softbox being aimed (HLS style) towards the subjects in TTL mode?

Click to expand...

I would reverse the two lights - bounce the AD200 and use the V860II for the softbox.

A 36" softbox is going to be awkward to move around a room full of people but it can be done.

If you think the background is important then you will need higher ISO values and you may not need the bounce light at all. Jacques Cornell gave you a nice setup for just this type of event. Something like this diffuser would work fine for the off-camera light if used about 3' from the subject. It can also be used with an on-camera flash.

eBay - 15" 40CM Round Disc Softbox Flash Diffuser for Camera Flash Speedlite Speedlight

Ms Bigglesworth said:

IOW - maybe the hot shoe flash alone is good enough - Or the AD200 via trigger is plenty. The hope is to get a lot of ambient and just light to fill so it doesn't look like deer in the headlights.

It is 95% for mobile/event shooting so I'm probably going to go with the LiON version - although pricier - the nightmare of having to changing batteries at a critical moment is real.

It happens I am using Sony A7xx so that info was useful.

For backup - I'll still have both the pro+regular transmitters which can trigger my AD200s
I also have a Sony hot shoe flash - in case of emergency.

While redundancy is very good - and I practice it with most everything - I'm also trying to keep it simple and efficient. Less moving parts, and less parts to move and manage is good.

Room w/approx. 200 people

Click to expand...

--
Living and loving it in Pattaya, Thailand. Canon 7D - See the gear list for the rest.

Sailor Blue said:

I would reverse the two lights - bounce the AD200 and use the V860II for the softbox.

A 36" softbox is going to be awkward to move around a room full of people but it can be done.

If you think the background is important then you will need higher ISO values and you may not need the bounce light at all. Jacques Cornell gave you a nice setup for just this type of event. Something like this diffuser would work fine for the off-camera light if used about 3' from the subject. It can also be used with an on-camera flash.

eBay - 15" 40CM Round Disc Softbox Flash Diffuser for Camera Flash Speedlite Speedlight

Click to expand...

Thank you!

I'm beginning to see that might be the better way to go - use the AD200+softbox to boost the ambient/fill via bounce. I was testing yesterday on 12' ceilings (just a transmitter and AD200) and found that the more I feathered the light away from the subject and bounced to the ceiling, the better the overall scene got. ISO 1250-1600 is fairly clean at f4 1/125 - so there's room to still tweak - open it up to 2.8 when needed - or go 1/100 or even slower and maybe drop the ISO back. Adding the V860 on top would just provide more fill or a touch of direct.

I'm not entirely sure about adding a large modifier to the already large V860 for handling purposes as I may still be carrying/switching two bodies. On average I'm guessing I'll be around 8-10' from the subjects during the social part. So I was thinking maybe aim this flashbender knock off straight up and either reflecting towards or feathered off the subject (large one) - or slightly flagged off (small one).

I did a trial run of the AD200+softbox+assistant yesterday. It's a folded legs lightstand raised to ~7' high so the ground supports the weight and the box part itself is higher than head height while the assistant carries around and aims. It takes up not much more floorspace than a standing person, the softbox is aimed up (as in this image) with maybe a touch of it filling faces to avoid raccoon eyes. The main point of this light is to fill everything in the area so it doesn't fall to black so quickly. (deer in headlights)

Thanks for all the input - everyone - it's been very helpful!


I'll use an Octabox, but this general type angle

Ms Bigglesworth said:

Sailor Blue said:

I would reverse the two lights - bounce the AD200 and use the V860II for the softbox.

A 36" softbox is going to be awkward to move around a room full of people but it can be done.

If you think the background is important then you will need higher ISO values and you may not need the bounce light at all. Jacques Cornell gave you a nice setup for just this type of event. Something like this diffuser would work fine for the off-camera light if used about 3' from the subject. It can also be used with an on-camera flash.

eBay - 15" 40CM Round Disc Softbox Flash Diffuser for Camera Flash Speedlite Speedlight

Click to expand...

Thank you!

I'm beginning to see that might be the better way to go - use the AD200+softbox to boost the ambient/fill via bounce. I was testing yesterday on 12' ceilings (just a transmitter and AD200) and found that the more I feathered the light away from the subject and bounced to the ceiling, the better the overall scene got. ISO 1250-1600 is fairly clean at f4 1/125 - so there's room to still tweak - open it up to 2.8 when needed - or go 1/100 or even slower and maybe drop the ISO back. Adding the V860 on top would just provide more fill or a touch of direct.

I'm not entirely sure about adding a large modifier to the already large V860 for handling purposes as I may still be carrying/switching two bodies. On average I'm guessing I'll be around 8-10' from the subjects during the social part. So I was thinking maybe aim this flashbender knock off straight up and either reflecting towards or feathered off the subject (large one) - or slightly flagged off (small one).

I did a trial run of the AD200+softbox+assistant yesterday. It's a folded legs lightstand raised to ~7' high so the ground supports the weight and the box part itself is higher than head height while the assistant carries around and aims. It takes up not much more floorspace than a standing person, the softbox is aimed up (as in this image) with maybe a touch of it filling faces to avoid raccoon eyes. The main point of this light is to fill everything in the area so it doesn't fall to black so quickly. (deer in headlights)

Thanks for all the input - everyone - it's been very helpful!

I'll use an Octabox, but this general type angle

Click to expand...

Bouncing a softbox off the ceiling makes no sense to me. It just robs you of power without softening the light since the softening is achieved by spreading the light over a much larger surface of the ceiling. Better to just point a naked speedlight head at the ceiling. But ceiling bounce alone tends to cause dark shadows under eyebrows and chins. Dialing the bounce down by -1 stop and using the aforementioned left-hand speedlight with disk softbox as key provides nicer light on the nearby subject while also illuminating the surrounding area.

--
"No matter where you go, there you are." - Buckaroo Banzai

Jacques Cornell said:

Bouncing a softbox off the ceiling makes no sense to me. It just robs you of power without softening the light since the softening is achieved by spreading the light over a much larger surface of the ceiling. Better to just point a naked speedlight head at the ceiling. But ceiling bounce alone tends to cause dark shadows under eyebrows and chins. Dialing the bounce down by -1 stop and using the aforementioned left-hand speedlight with disk softbox as key provides nicer light on the nearby subject while also illuminating the surrounding area.

Click to expand...

Thank you again - and I understand what you're saying completely. But to make sure - the photographer has one on camera speedlight aimed to ceiling (no bounce card or flashbender or anything) and then hold another speedlight with the tiny disc thing - and then shoot one handed for a few hours.

You're saying the 15" disc w/speedlight is a better second light, than having a 36" softbox w/AD200 w/bulb head (which was my plan). OK, I'll have to defer to experience there. I could alternately use a 30" Wescott Halo Mono shoot through I have on hand. It would be a lot lighter and smaller for the assistant to carry and have a wider spread.

The apparently misguided point of the softbox (and I could remove the diffuse if needed) is to aim it but also spread the light out behind and onto the subjects too - for direct light but less overpowering. While with the on camera speedlight also hitting them (either partially tilted or w/a flashbender.

I'll be carrying a smallish camera with a big heavy 24-70 2.8 lens shooting in manual - it's a two handed setup. I'll likely also be carrying another camera with a remote only - or just to shoot natural light (fast prime). Whatever 2nd light will be carried by an assistant.

So here's where I'm at now. These are things I own and don't have to buy. See if this makes more sense. (I'm going to run some tests once the V860 arrives.)

This (or softbox) is the TTL main + fill w/AD200/Bulb Head - slightly feathered upward (or no?)

[ATTACH alt="Wescott Halo Mono Umbrella Softbox (30" size (retired) SHORT shaft.... no eyeball poking"]2130614[/ATTACH]
Wescott Halo Mono Umbrella Softbox (30" size (retired) SHORT shaft.... no eyeball poking

This is the ceiling bounce pointed straight up. V860 - Or just lose the modifier entirely? Or tilt slightly down. Or maybe even use it to flag off the light? ala Neil VanN's "Black Foamie Thing".

[ATTACH alt=""Waka" Flash diffuser/bounce/bend/flag kit $14 on Amazon"]2130615[/ATTACH]
"Waka" Flash diffuser/bounce/bend/flag kit $14 on Amazon

Ms Bigglesworth said:

Sailor Blue said:

I would reverse the two lights - bounce the AD200 and use the V860II for the softbox.

A 36" softbox is going to be awkward to move around a room full of people but it can be done.

If you think the background is important then you will need higher ISO values and you may not need the bounce light at all. Jacques Cornell gave you a nice setup for just this type of event. Something like this diffuser would work fine for the off-camera light if used about 3' from the subject. It can also be used with an on-camera flash.

eBay - 15" 40CM Round Disc Softbox Flash Diffuser for Camera Flash Speedlite Speedlight

Click to expand...

Thank you!

I'm beginning to see that might be the better way to go - use the AD200+softbox to boost the ambient/fill via bounce. I was testing yesterday on 12' ceilings (just a transmitter and AD200) and found that the more I feathered the light away from the subject and bounced to the ceiling, the better the overall scene got.

Click to expand...

I assume that was the AD200 with the metal bowl reflector. As Jacques said, it makes no sense to use a softbox on a flash being used for bounce.

As Jacques said, if you bounce directly overhead of the subject you get light from directly overhead on the subject and that gives you dark shadows in the eye sockets, under the nose, and under the chin. Bouncing the light from over the camera produces a light source just in front of the subject, which is better than above them.

The further you bounce the light from behind you the more the light can fill in these shadows but the bounced light becomes weaker. It is a compromise. Adding an on-camera TTL flash as a fill light works very well with a bounced flash.

Ms Bigglesworth said:

ISO 1250-1600 is fairly clean at f4 1/125 - so there's room to still tweak - open it up to 2.8 when needed - or go 1/100 or even slower and maybe drop the ISO back. Adding the V860 on top would just provide more fill or a touch of direct.

I'm not entirely sure about adding a large modifier to the already large V860 for handling purposes as I may still be carrying/switching two bodies. On average I'm guessing I'll be around 8-10' from the subjects during the social part. So I was thinking maybe aim this flashbender knock off straight up and either reflecting towards or feathered off the subject (large one) - or slightly flagged off (small one).

Click to expand...

To give you portrait soft light you need a diffuser as large as or larger than the subject and you generally use those diffusers at distances between 1 and 2 diameters/diagonals. You get some softness out to about 3 diameters/diagonals but beyond that the diffuser is so small with respect to the subject that you might as well not use the diffuser.

This is not a "large" reflector since it only has an effective area of 9.86x11.02, or roughly 10"x11". The diagonal is about 15", the same as the round disk softbox I gave a link for. This means it will provide portrait quality soft light out to about 30" and some softness out to about 45". Beyond that it is not going to soften the light enough to make using it worthwhile.

The difference is that the round disk has an area of 177 in² vs 110 in² for the reflector. I'm now sure this 60% larger diffuser area is enough to make a significant difference but when it comes to softness I'll take the larger diffuser anytime as long as it fits my needs.

Ms Bigglesworth said:

I did a trial run of the AD200+softbox+assistant yesterday. It's a folded legs lightstand raised to ~7' high so the ground supports the weight and the box part itself is higher than head height while the assistant carries around and aims. It takes up not much more floorspace than a standing person, the softbox is aimed up (as in this image) with maybe a touch of it filling faces to avoid raccoon eyes.

Click to expand...

If the bounce light is far enough from the subject it can be aimed at the ceiling between the light and the subject it will give you better light than if the flash is mounted on the camera and bounced upward and more light than if the on-camera flash is bounced behind the camera.

Instead of a light stand use an extendable painters pole for a paint roller plus an adapter - no light stand feet to worry about. Combine the adapter with a couple of male spigots and an umbrella adapter and you are all set. The spigots are readily available from Adorama, B&H, Amazon, or eBay.

eBay - ClickSnap Painter's Pole Adapter #TI-PPA-10 22099855620 | eBay

B&H - Impact Short Adapter Spigot with Female 1/4"-20 and SRP-101

B&H - Impact Short Double-Male Round Spigot with 1/4"-20 SRP-109

If you need an umbrella adapter this one comes with a removable cold shoe and the male spigot.

B&H - Impact Umbrella Bracket with Adjustable Shoe 9101880

Ms Bigglesworth said:

The main point of this light is to fill everything in the area so it doesn't fall to black so quickly. (deer in headlights)

Thanks for all the input - everyone - it's been very helpful!

I'll use an Octabox, but this general type angle

Click to expand...

If you prefer you can use an umbrella instead. I would use it in the reflection mode with a black backing. The advantage is that it is ease to collapse and open when moving.

Sailor Blue said:

Ms Bigglesworth said:

Sailor Blue said:

I would reverse the two lights - bounce the AD200 and use the V860II for the softbox.

A 36" softbox is going to be awkward to move around a room full of people but it can be done.

If you think the background is important then you will need higher ISO values and you may not need the bounce light at all. Jacques Cornell gave you a nice setup for just this type of event. Something like this diffuser would work fine for the off-camera light if used about 3' from the subject. It can also be used with an on-camera flash.

eBay - 15" 40CM Round Disc Softbox Flash Diffuser for Camera Flash Speedlite Speedlight

Click to expand...

Thank you!

I'm beginning to see that might be the better way to go - use the AD200+softbox to boost the ambient/fill via bounce. I was testing yesterday on 12' ceilings (just a transmitter and AD200) and found that the more I feathered the light away from the subject and bounced to the ceiling, the better the overall scene got.

Click to expand...

I assume that was the AD200 with the metal bowl reflector. As Jacques said, it makes no sense to use a softbox on a flash being used for bounce.

As Jacques said,

Click to expand...

Wow, three mentions from the Wise and Ever Helpful Sailor Blue. I'm honored.

Sailor Blue said:

if you bounce directly overhead of the subject you get light from directly overhead on the subject and that gives you dark shadows in the eye sockets, under the nose, and under the chin. Bouncing the light from over the camera produces a light source just in front of the subject, which is better than above them.

The further you bounce the light from behind you the more the light can fill in these shadows but the bounced light becomes weaker. It is a compromise. Adding an on-camera TTL flash as a fill light works very well with a bounced flash.

Sailor Blue said:

ISO 1250-1600 is fairly clean at f4 1/125 - so there's room to still tweak - open it up to 2.8 when needed - or go 1/100 or even slower and maybe drop the ISO back. Adding the V860 on top would just provide more fill or a touch of direct.

I'm not entirely sure about adding a large modifier to the already large V860 for handling purposes as I may still be carrying/switching two bodies. On average I'm guessing I'll be around 8-10' from the subjects during the social part. So I was thinking maybe aim this flashbender knock off straight up and either reflecting towards or feathered off the subject (large one) - or slightly flagged off (small one).

Click to expand...

To give you portrait soft light you need a diffuser as large as or larger than the subject and you generally use those diffusers at distances between 1 and 2 diameters/diagonals. You get some softness out to about 3 diameters/diagonals but beyond that the diffuser is so small with respect to the subject that you might as well not use the diffuser.

This is not a "large" reflector since it only has an effective area of 9.86x11.02, or roughly 10"x11". The diagonal is about 15", the same as the round disk softbox I gave a link for. This means it will provide portrait quality soft light out to about 30" and some softness out to about 45". Beyond that it is not going to soften the light enough to make using it worthwhile.

The difference is that the round disk has an area of 177 in² vs 110 in² for the reflector. I'm now sure this 60% larger diffuser area is enough to make a significant difference but when it comes to softness I'll take the larger diffuser anytime as long as it fits my needs.

Sailor Blue said:

I did a trial run of the AD200+softbox+assistant yesterday. It's a folded legs lightstand raised to ~7' high so the ground supports the weight and the box part itself is higher than head height while the assistant carries around and aims. It takes up not much more floorspace than a standing person, the softbox is aimed up (as in this image) with maybe a touch of it filling faces to avoid raccoon eyes.

Click to expand...

If the bounce light is far enough from the subject it can be aimed at the ceiling between the light and the subject it will give you better light than if the flash is mounted on the camera and bounced upward and more light than if the on-camera flash is bounced behind the camera.

Instead of a light stand use an extendable painters pole for a paint roller plus an adapter - no light stand feet to worry about.

Click to expand...

Another good option is CheetahStand's C8 Auto Folding stand. The legs collapse when you pick it up, then extend when you set it down. It's heavier than a painter's pole, but it can be handy for the assistant to be able to put the light down if he's suddenly needed for some other task.

Sailor Blue said:

This is not a "large" reflector since it only has an effective area of 9.86x11.02, or roughly 10"x11". The diagonal is about 15", the same as the round disk softbox I gave a link for. This means it will provide portrait quality soft light out to about 30" and some softness out to about 45". Beyond that it is not going to soften the light enough to make using it worthwhile.

Click to expand...

Hi I'm reading along - so unless one is extremely close - any speedlight modifier is not worthwhile for direct light. (Just picturing standing 8-10 feet away at 85mm/FF for instance).

Sailor Blue said:

If you prefer you can use an umbrella instead. I would use it in the reflection mode with a black backing. The advantage is that it is ease to collapse and open when moving.

Click to expand...

Isn't the mentioned 30" Halo Mono reflective inside - softbox style but an umbrella? It looked interesting for something small, lightweight and fast in combination with an off camera AD200. It does only have 1 layer of diffusion AFAIK. So many toys out there right now....

KE_DP said:

Sailor Blue said:

This is not a "large" reflector since it only has an effective area of 9.86x11.02, or roughly 10"x11". The diagonal is about 15", the same as the round disk softbox I gave a link for. This means it will provide portrait quality soft light out to about 30" and some softness out to about 45". Beyond that it is not going to soften the light enough to make using it worthwhile.

Click to expand...

Hi I'm reading along - so unless one is extremely close - any speedlight modifier is not worthwhile for direct light. (Just picturing standing 8-10 feet away at 85mm/FF for instance).

Click to expand...

Note I said "portrait quality soft light". The round disk softbox beams light at the subject like any other softbox so this is true, beyond about 45" (~4') you might as well not use it if you want portrait quality softness. It will give light that is a little more soft than a bare flash out to a slightly greater distance, which may be enough for some uses, but it quickly becomes just as hard as the bare flash.

With the reflector type hot-shoe flash modifiers things can be different.

If you tip the reflector top over so that the flash is completely reflected then it is just like any other diffuse source of light, limited to about 3 diagonals before it isn't worth using for portraits.

If the reflector surface is not tipped all the way over then some of the light reflects off the reflector and some bypasses it. The light that bypasses the reflector can bounce off the ceiling or a wall, back to the subject, and add some soft light to the hard light that goes directly from the reflector to the subject. This way you get softness beyond 3 diagonals plus a catchlight from the reflector.

KE_DP said:

KE_DP said:

If you prefer you can use an umbrella instead. I would use it in the reflection mode with a black backing. The advantage is that it is ease to collapse and open when moving.

Click to expand...

Isn't the mentioned 30" Halo Mono reflective inside - softbox style but an umbrella? It looked interesting for something small, lightweight and fast in combination with an off camera AD200. It does only have 1 layer of diffusion AFAIK. So many toys out there right now....

Click to expand...

In essence all softboxes are just umbrellas. We usually restrict the term "softbox" to umbrellas with an opening in the back of the umbrella for light to enter and one or two diffusers made of fabric.

An umbrella with a flash or strobe bouncing off the back of the umbrella has a single level of diffusion.

A "softbox" that has only a single layer of diffusion fabric has a single level of diffusion.

Add a layer of diffusion fabric to the opening of an umbrella or "softbox" and you get double diffusion.

Just to add to the confusion an umbrella with the flash/strobe inside and a fabric diffuser over the opening can be called a brollybox just to differentiate it from a regular softbox or an umbrella.

The Halo Mono and the Photek SOFTLIGHTER II are brollyboxes.

OK, I'm back and working on it - with a test result and big thanks again to all. It's been really helpful.

Where V860 is used it was aimed up and slightly sideways/backwards to the ceiling away from subject. (still tweaking the angles)

Bounce angle from the first test - small diffuser/flag slightly away from subject and up



And some results. The 30" brollybox is situated 5' left and a foot or two above the camera, and is aiming direct at the subject. All TTL no FEC adjustments yet. It's a 12' near white ceiling. Low lights and curtains drawn to simulate mediocre lighting.

ISO 1600, 1/100 2.8 70mm about 9-10 feet from subject.

Upper LH - no flash (exposure set to be a bit under before powering on the flash)
Upper RH - TTL V860+AD200/brollybox (maybe slight UE)
Lower LH - TTL remote + AD200/brollybox only
Lower RH - TTL V860 only (**should** be aimed even further backwards as it's too hot when there's a wall to the RH side)

To me, the V860+AD200 seems the best combo.
I noticed when I used just one (either one) of the flashes - the light got brighter/harder.
Using both might have an added benefit of extended battery/pops.

I doubt I would want to slow the shutter much more - but could for still shots.
These are 2.8 though - so to go to F4+ I might have to raise the ISO depending on light.