Suggestions for compact camera.

I entered the digital world with A series Powershots, progressed to S95 and G15 (after brief experiment with LX5) moved on to M43 and Sony FF.
Currently most of my photography is done with GX85 and when need a truly portable solution I use GM1 with various primes and zooms.
My photography goes through periods, and lately a lot of my photography is done in over 100mm focal lengths. GM1 with 35-100 is my choice. Although quite compact, I wouldn't call it truly pocketable so I am on a search for a bring along everywhere camera that would give me decent results in high focal lengths. Also, it must give me an ability to shoot indoors.

My old s95 with f2 apperture for 28mm often satisfies my needs for indoor quality,(with meticilous exposure and RAW precessing).
I understand that pocketable bright telezoom does not exist, and would settle for anythithing that would give me high focal length even with high aperture values.

I don't know of any camera ever produced that would combine at least 200mm focal length and that would at least at part of the zoom range would give usable indoor results.
I am willing to look at old classics too.
The only close candidates that come to mind are Nikon P7*** series, but they are too large for me. G15 is borderline on size, but only reaches 140mm. Recently noticed Lumix LF1, it intrigued me but seems like it hasnt picked up well and is hard to find.
Sony RX1006 would fit the bill but is way more then I would be willing to spend for auxiliary camera.
TZ100-200 come to mind, but they seem too dim even at wide end.

Any suggestions?

alevi1492 said:

I don't know of any camera ever produced that would combine at least 200mm focal length and that would at least at part of the zoom range would give usable indoor results.

Click to expand...

I use the Olympus Stylus-1 often times for indoor, no flash shots. Sure you are pushing things with a 1/1.7" sensor, but it has a 28-300mm equivalent f/2.8 lens which helps. I can fit it into my large pants pocket, but it is more comfortable as a jacket camera. Note, the Stylus-1 is now discontinued, but it was released in 2014. Go over to the Olympus compact forum where a few of the Stylus-1 users hang out.

Here is a link to camerasize.com to show the size of the Stylus-1 and other cameras:

• https://camerasize.com/compact/#494,491.485,106,786,ha,t

alevi1492 said:

I entered the digital world with A series Powershots, progressed to S95 and G15 (after brief experiment with LX5) moved on to M43 and Sony FF.
Currently most of my photography is done with GX85 and when need a truly portable solution I use GM1 with various primes and zooms.
My photography goes through periods, and lately a lot of my photography is done in over 100mm focal lengths. GM1 with 35-100 is my choice. Although quite compact, I wouldn't call it truly pocketable so I am on a search for a bring along everywhere camera that would give me decent results in high focal lengths. Also, it must give me an ability to shoot indoors.

My old s95 with f2 apperture for 28mm often satisfies my needs for indoor quality,(with meticilous exposure and RAW precessing).
I understand that pocketable bright telezoom does not exist, and would settle for anythithing that would give me high focal length even with high aperture values.

I don't know of any camera ever produced that would combine at least 200mm focal length and that would at least at part of the zoom range would give usable indoor results.
I am willing to look at old classics too.
The only close candidates that come to mind are Nikon P7*** series, but they are too large for me. G15 is borderline on size, but only reaches 140mm. Recently noticed Lumix LF1, it intrigued me but seems like it hasnt picked up well and is hard to find.
Sony RX1006 would fit the bill but is way more then I would be willing to spend for auxiliary camera.
TZ100-200 come to mind, but they seem too dim even at wide end.

Any suggestions?

Click to expand...

The TZ100, with F2.8 at 24mm, should at least equal the S95 at 28mm F2.0 in low light performance. The sensor difference should make up that stop of difference, and the TZ100 also has a decent stabiliser so slow shutter speeds can be used. So does the S95 I suppose, but gripping the slightly larger TZ100 may be a bit easier and the EVF can also be used.

LF1 is an interesting option, but probably only available secondhand. It's a Panasonic version of the S95 with more zoom range and better video options.

Thanks for the link.
Looked into Stylus 1 too, many users get amazing results with it outdoors; with its constant 2.8 lens that goes to 300mm it is very versatile. It almost hits the mark for me. But from my experience with S95 and G15 I fear that that its light gathering capabilities fall short for my needs by like a stop. Also, my impression is that it is rather large, and more so, the hump will make it awkward to take in and out of pocket.

alevi1492 said:

Thanks for the link.
Looked into Stylus 1 too, many users get amazing results with it outdoors; with its constant 2.8 lens that goes to 300mm it is very versatile. It almost hits the mark for me. But from my experience with S95 and G15 I fear that that its light gathering capabilities fall short for my needs by like a stop. Also, my impression is that it is rather large, and more so, the hump will make it awkward to take in and out of pocket.

Click to expand...

Yep, both the flash hotshoe hump and more importantly the EVF sticking out make it problematical for using pants pockets. I figured it was on the edge of acceptable image quality, but I thought I would mention it.

If you didn't need the longer distances, I now use the LX10 as my indoor low light, no flash compact camera, as the 1" sensor and f/1.4 lens on the wide end (and f/2.8 at the telephoto end) gives you roughly a stop or more of light than the Stylus-1 would have. It doesn't have the longer focal length, EVF, or flash hotshoe. However, it is on the small side, so I can put it in my pants pocket for situations where I don't want the camera to be noticeable when I'm not shooting. I often times have both Stylus-1 and LX10 with me, using each where its strengths are when I'm not carrying the full camera bag.

I recently shot video with the LX10 of my niece's wedding using the LX10 as the B-camera, and I was impressed by the video, given the size of the camera (the A-camera was the Panasonic G85 that I use for video).

Michael Meissner said:

alevi1492 said:

Thanks for the link.
Looked into Stylus 1 too, many users get amazing results with it outdoors; with its constant 2.8 lens that goes to 300mm it is very versatile. It almost hits the mark for me. But from my experience with S95 and G15 I fear that that its light gathering capabilities fall short for my needs by like a stop. Also, my impression is that it is rather large, and more so, the hump will make it awkward to take in and out of pocket.

Click to expand...

Yep, both the flash hotshoe hump and more importantly the EVF sticking out make it problematical for using pants pockets. I figured it was on the edge of acceptable image quality, but I thought I would mention it.

If you didn't need the longer distances, I now use the LX10 as my indoor low light, no flash compact camera, as the 1" sensor and f/1.4 lens on the wide end (and f/2.8 at the telephoto end) gives you roughly a stop or more of light than the Stylus-1 would have. It doesn't have the longer focal length, EVF, or flash hotshoe. However, it is on the small side, so I can put it in my pants pocket for situations where I don't want the camera to be noticeable when I'm not shooting. I often times have both Stylus-1 and LX10 with me, using each where its strengths are when I'm not carrying the full camera bag.

I recently shot video with the LX10 of my niece's wedding using the LX10 as the B-camera, and I was impressed by the video, given the size of the camera (the A-camera was the Panasonic G85 that I use for video).

Click to expand...

Wide angle compact options are many. I am very happy with my GM1 with 12-32mm. Since it is a relatively large sensor camera, I can close my eyes on the fact that it bulges out of my pocket slightly. With 20mm Lumix it's low light perforance almost can't be surpassed by any other camera (per ounce).

I can't justify LX10 camera since in wide angle department It doesn't add significant functionality to my setup.

My difficulty is finding a carry in the pocket solution that has a versatile enough focal range, but simultaneously without hassle of changing lenses will allow me in a pinch to take usable indoor pictures.

The closest option I employ is: I carry my GM1 with 14-140;- since the body is so short it barely takes up any space.

alevi1492 said:

I can't justify LX10 camera since in wide angle department It doesn't add significant functionality to my setup.

Click to expand...

Actually there's massive difference between field of view of 30mm and 24mm.

I am immensely satisfied with my Panasonic ZS25: 24-480mm effective zoom, plus i-zoom. Very light weight and slim enough to carry in my front trouser pocket all day, every day with Clearviewer viewfinder attached. - giving me a HUGE Pseudo-EVF image.

OIS is great, reducing problems with "Low Light" to a very minimum concern.







--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]

alevi1492 said:

... I am on a search for a bring along everywhere camera that would give me decent results in high focal lengths. Also, it must give me an ability to shoot indoors.

My old s95 with f2 apperture for 28mm often satisfies my needs for indoor quality,(with meticilous exposure and RAW precessing).
I understand that pocketable bright telezoom does not exist, and would settle for anythithing that would give me high focal length even with high aperture values.

I don't know of any camera ever produced that would combine at least 200mm focal length and that would at least at part of the zoom range would give usable indoor results. ...

Click to expand...

At this time the current camera that will possibly meet your wants/ needs is the new Sony RX100 VI -- DPR review HERE.

Being its brand new with all the latest Sony tech features has a hefty price; $1,298.00.

The ZS100 has a slower f/2.8-5.9 25-250mm 35mm equiv, lens at around 1/2 the
RX100 VI price.

As per the DPR ZS100 review, to get optimum IQ from the sensor need to shoot RAW.


ZS100: RAW 1600 ISO




ZS100: RAW 1600 ISO




ZS100:RAW 80 ISO



Cheers,
Jon

Jon_T said:

alevi1492 said:

... I am on a search for a bring along everywhere camera that would give me decent results in high focal lengths. Also, it must give me an ability to shoot indoors.

My old s95 with f2 apperture for 28mm often satisfies my needs for indoor quality,(with meticilous exposure and RAW precessing).
I understand that pocketable bright telezoom does not exist, and would settle for anythithing that would give me high focal length even with high aperture values.

I don't know of any camera ever produced that would combine at least 200mm focal length and that would at least at part of the zoom range would give usable indoor results. ...

Click to expand...

At this time the current camera that will possibly meet your wants/ needs is the new Sony RX100 VI -- DPR review HERE.

Being its brand new with all the latest Sony tech features has a hefty price; $1,298.00.

The ZS100 has a slower f/2.8-5.9 25-250mm 35mm equiv, lens at around 1/2 the
RX100 VI price.

As per the DPR ZS100 review, to get optimum IQ from the sensor need to shoot RAW.

Cheers,
Jon

Click to expand...

Yea, this Sony would be an ideal solution, but I can't justify the price yet.

Latest Panasonics TZ** are also rather pricy...

Over the last few years the trend in advanced compacts has been: very bright normal (24-70) focal lengths in front of 1" sensor. This has bascally made comact cameras equal to an DSLR with a kit lens in many ways, especially low light performance.

The wider or loger focal range so far has not been "compactized" . Nikon has abandoned their project of DL series. Longer zooms so far have been rather large. I hope that Panasonic Tz*00 and Sony indicate a trend of quality compacts with longer focal lengths.

alevi1492 said:

Jon_T said:

alevi1492 said:

... I am on a search for a bring along everywhere camera that would give me decent results in high focal lengths. Also, it must give me an ability to shoot indoors.

My old s95 with f2 apperture for 28mm often satisfies my needs for indoor quality,(with meticilous exposure and RAW precessing).
I understand that pocketable bright telezoom does not exist, and would settle for anythithing that would give me high focal length even with high aperture values.

I don't know of any camera ever produced that would combine at least 200mm focal length and that would at least at part of the zoom range would give usable indoor results. ...

Click to expand...

At this time the current camera that will possibly meet your wants/ needs is the new Sony RX100 VI -- DPR review HERE.

Being its brand new with all the latest Sony tech features has a hefty price; $1,298.00.

The ZS100 has a slower f/2.8-5.9 25-250mm 35mm equiv, lens at around 1/2 the
RX100 VI price.

As per the DPR ZS100 review, to get optimum IQ from the sensor need to shoot RAW.

Cheers,
Jon

Click to expand...

Yea, this Sony would be an ideal solution, but I can't justify the price yet. ...

Click to expand...

I agree as to the current price; which is quite common when a 'entirely new' camera released. However to be fair Sony RX100 and RX10 series have had good build quality and good quality optics; IMHO comparing the Sony RX100 and RX10 series to equivalent Panasonic cameras similar to comparing a 'prosumer' DSLR to a 'entry-level' DSLR.

alevi1492 said:

... Latest Panasonics TZ** are also rather pricy...

Click to expand...

If you're in the USA at B&H Photo they (or Canon) must of found some new ZS50's in inventory as B&H has new ZS50 available for $279.00 (HERE).

ZS50 only 12MP but with its larger pixel size its DxO sensor scores (HERE) are better, and has less sensor image noise than the newer ZS/TZ cameras.

View attachment 2028056

ZS50 does not have 4K video/ photo features, and does not have (as w/ some other Panys) the typical in-camera JPG quality settings. Hence for optimum control over IQ will need to shoot RAW.

FWIW below are several ZS50 images:


















1600 ISO RAW

Can see my "ZS50 for low lighting/ action shots? " testing the ZS50's low lighting/ 1600 ISO shots at a Cheer National Championships.

alevi1492 said:

... Over the last few years the trend in advanced compacts has been: very bright normal (24-70) focal lengths in front of 1" sensor. This has bascally made comact cameras equal to an DSLR with a kit lens in many ways, especially low light performance. ...

Click to expand...

Heavily dependent upon what you consider 'low light' and which DSLR used in comparison.

I have the FZ1000 and ZS100. FZ1000 in indoor lower lighting conditions 'can' compare quite well to my older 70D DSLR up to 1600 ISO, but doing 100% Pixel Peeping at 800 -1600 ISO 70D noticeably better, and much better at 3200-6400 ISO.

Highly doubt 1"-Type Sensor able to 'equal' newer Sony 24MP APS-C sensor used in Nikon DSLR's, Sony DLSR's/ Mirrorless A6300, A6500, etc.

alevi1492 said:

... The wider or loger focal range so far has not been "compactized" . Nikon has abandoned their project of DL series. Longer zooms so far have been rather large. I hope that Panasonic Tz*00 and Sony indicate a trend of quality compacts with longer focal lengths. ...

Click to expand...

Sorry not quite following the above.

For a compact/ pocketable long zoom range 1"-Type Sensor camera without going to really small apertures, the RX100 VI is as compact you're going to get; next being the ZS100/ ZS200.

Same for the 1/2.3" sensor ZSXX/ TZXX 24-720mm 35mm equiv. f/3.3-6.4; and the
FZ80 20-1200mm 35mm equiv. f/2.8-5.9.

Lens with longer zoom range and longer focal lengths have to be large enough to provide image circle large enough to cover the sensor.

Unfortunately the camera mfgs. decided to discontinue using the 1/1.7" sensor which allowed for smaller enthusiast compact cameras like the PowerShot 110/ 120, Panasonic LF1, etc. :-(

Cheers,
Jon

alevi1492 said:

Yea, this Sony would be an ideal solution, but I can't justify the price yet.focal lengths.

Click to expand...

Interesting expression: "can't justify the price yet." That suggests the time will come when you can. What sort of circumstances do you think will tell you when that has happened?

morepix said:

alevi1492 said:

Yea, this Sony would be an ideal solution, but I can't justify the price yet.focal lengths.

Click to expand...

Interesting expression: "can't justify the price yet."

Click to expand...

I'm not the OP, but I would read that expression as either:

• When Sony has released the next camera, perhaps the current camera's price will fall down; or
• Some time in the future there might be used cameras on the market at a more reasonable price from people that serially upgrade to the next best thing; or
• At some point the OP may think he/she will be making more money, and can spend on higher priced gear.

Everything is a trade off. You have to juggle what you can afford by the benefits of the purchase. For example, I would love to get an Olympus E-m1 mark II, Panasonic G9, etc. but right now, the features of those cameras aren't enough for me to buy the camera on credit and pay down the debt over time. In fact right now, I am trying to clear out the debt recent purchases incurred before thinking about more expensive toys.

Michael,

That's good. You've cited three possible changes in circumstances, all having to to with price of equipment or income for purchase:

• Price of desirable camera will fall in the future
• Desirable camera will become available used
• Will have more money in the future

I was wondering if the OP might expect to find some change in his shooting requirements that would make it clear that he needed equipment that provided him with something that his present equipment lacked. For example, good tracking of moving subjects, or better low-light capability, or ...

--
David
pbase.com/morepix

Michael Meissner said:

morepix said:

alevi1492 said:

Yea, this Sony would be an ideal solution, but I can't justify the price yet.focal lengths.

Click to expand...

Interesting expression: "can't justify the price yet."

Click to expand...

I'm not the OP, but I would read that expression as either:

• When Sony has released the next camera, perhaps the current camera's price will fall down; or
• Some time in the future there might be used cameras on the market at a more reasonable price from people that serially upgrade to the next best thing; or
• At some point the OP may think he/she will be making more money, and can spend on higher priced gear.

Everything is a trade off. You have to juggle what you can afford by the benefits of the purchase. For example, I would love to get an Olympus E-m1 mark II, Panasonic G9, etc. but right now, the features of those cameras aren't enough for me to buy the camera on credit and pay down the debt over time. In fact right now, I am trying to clear out the debt recent purchases incurred before thinking about more expensive toys.

Click to expand...

Really, I was just theorizing that perhaps the high price of Sony (it is 300$ more then already uber expensive m5) is due to their temporary novelty in the space of 1" compacts with decent teIephoto range. Lumix is TZ200 is also 200$ more expensive then LX10, with it's rather pedestrian F3.3-6.4 zoom and build quality.

I was implying that if the development of advanced compacts moves towards providing versatility of focal lengths, and all manufacturers follow suit of TZ100-200, and Sony RX100 m6, the prices on that entire segment will probably get in line with other models.

Will Canon G7X iii follow the pattern set by Sony and have 24-200 lens?

Jon_T said:

Jon_T said:

... Over the last few years the trend in advanced compacts has been: very bright normal (24-70) focal lengths in front of 1" sensor. This has bascally made comact cameras equal to an DSLR with a kit lens in many ways, especially low light performance. ...

Click to expand...

Heavily dependent upon what you consider 'low light' and which DSLR used in comparison.

I have the FZ1000 and ZS100. FZ1000 in indoor lower lighting conditions 'can' compare quite well to my older 70D DSLR up to 1600 ISO, but doing 100% Pixel Peeping at 800 -1600 ISO 70D noticeably better, and much better at 3200-6400 ISO.

Highly doubt 1"-Type Sensor able to 'equal' newer Sony 24MP APS-C sensor used in Nikon DSLR's, Sony DLSR's/ Mirrorless A6300, A6500, etc.

Click to expand...

By "equal" I just meant that light gathering ability of 1.8-2.8 lens paired with 1" sensor is approxomately like that of APS-C sensor paired with average 3.5-5.6 lens. The sensor on its own of course as the laws of physics dictate has less DR, color and light gathering power then even M43. Put a bright prime on, and the game changes.

More importantly I wonder if (without pixel peeping) the indoor results of 1" compact in average indoor ligting are "sufficient" for a lot of my applications;- unlike smaller sensors the detail and color are there and overall image is pleasant to the eye.

alevi1492 said:

I was implying that if the development of advanced compacts moves towards providing versatility of focal lengths, and all manufacturers follow suit of TZ100-200, and Sony RX100 m6, the prices on that entire segment will probably get in line with other models.

Click to expand...

My unhappy view is that compact cameras are an endangered species whose prices are unlikely to go down, ever. Except, as you noted, as older models are replaced by newer, and as users sell their used cameras. :-(

morepix said:

My unhappy view is that compact cameras are an endangered species whose prices are unlikely to go down, ever. Except, as you noted, as older models are replaced by newer, and as users sell their used cameras. :-(

Click to expand...

I tend to agree with you. Cell phones have pretty much wiped out the low end market, leaving only niche (read typically expensive) products.