good, better, and best viewfinders in MFT world?

Masefield · Aug 14, 2018

I only know specifics about Olympus. None of their viewfinders are 'field sequential' tech or prone to colour tearing, IIRC. You can get them lined up on dpreview's 'side-by-side' comparison tool, and check them out for yourself.

https://www.dpreview.com/products/c..._em5&products=oly_em5ii&products=olympus_penf

My understanding is that:

FIRST CLASS: Olympus EM1, EM1 ii and EM5 ii all have the same viewfinder. This is the biggest and best viewfinder that Olympus offer.

SECOND CLASS: EM10 ii, EM10 iii and PEN-F have the same size and resolution viewfinder, which is still a very decent size, but smaller than the EVF's listed above. The EM10 ii and iii's EVF's are OLED and the PEN-F isn't. OLED technology means the EVF is brighter, more contrasty and some have grumbled that the colours are slightly "unnatural". Personally, I find it to be a great viewfinder!

THIRD CLASS: The original EM5 and EM10 have the most basic of the Olympus viewfinders. Still good quality, but smaller and lower resolution than the others listed above. Still, I have never read anyone complaining or having issues with these EVFs.

--
'Photography is not art. It's pressing buttons. People take it up because they can't draw.' Lord Snowdon

Diane B · Aug 14, 2018

I really like 90% of the GX85–but today hit the wall again with the viewfinder. I was taking photos outside no choice, was there because of the exhibit. The viewfinder firest of all has no available eyecap to help eliminate side light—and then being small was difficult and when it steamed up LOL—I was ready to throw it. Using the screen to compose was useless because of the light. So, not my best photos for the most part because I couldn’t really see well enough to compose to my satisfaction.

I moved from FF Canon to m4/3 (actually bought the G1 to try for a second smaller personal camera and shot with both and eventually decided to move entirely to m4/3) and the best VF I’ve had was my EM5 but wanted to try a rangefinder style, liked a lot more about the GX85 and generally the VF doesn’t infuriate me—but it did today LOL. SO—I’m looking around too.

Masefield · Aug 14, 2018

In the review of the GX80/85 by dpreview, the camera was highly praised as a great value buy...with the single major reservation of a sub-standard viewfinder.

However, reading about owners experiences, it seems that some have a bigger problem with the EVF than others. Some seem quite happy with it, and others find it unusable under certain conditions. For example:

Loading…

www.dpreview.com

bmoag · Aug 14, 2018

It could be there is no better or best and not really any good.

An EVF is an optically magnified television screen of limited resolution and dynamic range. I have no answer for what people are imagining about the Emperor's clothes when they say an EVF looks more real than the view through a pentaprism.

As I write this I can look through one of my EVFs and an image of what I shot with it in my office opened on my 4k monitor. The resemblance between what the EVF shows and what the monitor shows is, let us say, considerable and nearly irreconcilable. That EVF is highly rated by many of the posters on this thread.

Highlights clip, midranges are murky and no amount of superimposed graphs, zebras or whatever, some actually useful, can make up for that. The brightness level is severely at odds with ambient daylight. The best thing I can say about EVFs is that they can allow video capture while looking through the eyepiece.

I have tortured a lot of salespeople looking through EVFs. I even own one or two.

The best EVF is the one that is the least objectionable to you personally, no different then choosing what to watch on cable or stream from Netflix. There is only limited opportunity for technical improvements in EVFs given the size of the pixels and the limited screen real estate regardless of OLED or any other technology unless the screens get physically bigger (but so will the camera surrounding the screen).

So if the market goes all EVF all the time those who can see what EVFs are not just have to get used to them but you don't have to pretend they are what they aren't.

Diane B · Aug 14, 2018

Yes, knew that going in and have had it for 2 years I guess and have shot with it a great deal. I actually don’t find it an issue a lot of the time—though it would be nice to have an available eyecup. I generally use back button focus and it resulted in some OOF shots today because I couldn’t see the focus point—the VF is even too small to clean it adequately when it steamed up. Just a bit of a rant I guess—but also sort of a day that made me think—maybe I SHOULD look around again. So much I like about the GX85–form, size, prefer the Panasonic menu system, quality of images (I shoot in RAW) with a jpeg. There are always compromises, I’ve made many over the years of shooting—but this is sort of a basic—that has just started to bug me enough to look around.

Diane B · Aug 14, 2018

Well, I’ve been in the m4/3 world since the beginning and came from FF world—but didn’t know how much the VF could bug me until today—it takes just once with a day of shooting that should have been a good one—but wasn’t— primarily because of the VF. So I thank everyone too—where I live means I end up buying from reviews. I plan to look at the cameras mentioned—and see what compromises work for me.

macsesso · Aug 14, 2018

In my experience the EVF on the GX 8 was absolutely the best by far. I say was because I no longer qwn that camerao

As of now the G 85 EVF is pretty good as is the EVF on my FZ 300 EVF on the Olympus EM 5 ii not quite as good but better than the GX 85

At one point I owned a GX 85 which is the reason I sold it and bought a G85

3dwag · Aug 14, 2018

Masefield said:
I only know specifics about Olympus. None of their viewfinders are 'field sequential' tech or prone to colour tearing, IIRC. You can get them lined up on dpreview's 'side-by-side' comparison tool, and check them out for yourself.

https://www.dpreview.com/products/c..._em5&products=oly_em5ii&products=olympus_penf

My understanding is that:

FIRST CLASS: Olympus EM1, EM1 ii and EM5 ii all have the same viewfinder. This is the biggest and best viewfinder that Olympus offer.

The available refresh rates on the EM1ii are much higher (2x, I think, but would have to check to be certain on the precise difference), compared to the original EM1. The optics and overall picture quality seemed a bit better with the EM1ii (but they are the same resolution), and I preferred it to the GH5, as the EM1ii was a bit brighter outdoors though as I recall the GH5 with a slightly higher resolution but not as high refresh rate than the EM1ii.

Masefield said:
SECOND CLASS: EM10 ii, EM10 iii and PEN-F have the same size and resolution viewfinder, which is still a very decent size, but smaller than the EVF's listed above. The EM10 ii and iii's EVF's are OLED and the PEN-F isn't. OLED technology means the EVF is brighter, more contrasty and some have grumbled that the colours are slightly "unnatural". Personally, I find it to be a great viewfinder!

THIRD CLASS: The original EM5 and EM10 have the most basic of the Olympus viewfinders. Still good quality, but smaller and lower resolution than the others listed above. Still, I have never read anyone complaining or having issues with these EVFs.

Diane B · Aug 14, 2018

So I’ve looked at a lot of camera specs. i would like to stay with Panasonic—I would prefer a rangefinder style body—though I was very impressed by the g9. So—it sort of comes down to the Gx8 and I wonder about buying a 3 YO body. I’m not sure what will come with new bodies—this is 20MP, everything that is important to me—and appears to have a very good VF. Of course being 3 YO its also less expensive than originally. I looked at the GX9 of course—but don’t see it as an upgrade to the GX85 VF except for the tilt—and may even be a lesser VF.

Any comments?

Boss of Sony · Aug 14, 2018

buratino said:
Hi guys,

I am not extremely happy with my GX85 viewfinder. I am not so bothered with that it's probably sequential field variety, but it's definitely small and not very well suited for exact focusing and framing.

So, what are the better and best options in this respect? EM10? EM5? EM1? G85? G9? I have heard the names, but still do not have much idea about their comparative qualities. GX9 is probably the same...

Please comment: I am a pretty recent MFT shooter. Thanks!

If money was no issue and I wanted to enjoy photography, I would pick up a G9. Feels nice in the hand. And the biggest and best EVF ever made. Unfortunately, if you want to recover shadows in RAW, the G9 is probably one of the worst cameras you could buy. Have no idea what has gone wrong here:

Masefield · Aug 14, 2018

3dwag said:
The available refresh rates on the EM1ii are much higher (2x, I think, but would have to check to be certain on the precise difference), compared to the original EM1. The optics and overall picture quality seemed a bit better with the EM1ii (but they are the same resolution), and I preferred it to the GH5, as the EM1ii was a bit brighter outdoors though as I recall the GH5 with a slightly higher resolution but not as high refresh rate than the EM1ii.

Thanks for the additional information. I have not looked through those particular EVF's myself...so I was basing my statements on spec sheets (where resolution and magnification are the key specs bandied about) and on what owners of various systems have said.

davidedric · Aug 15, 2018

buratino said:
Hi guys,

I am not extremely happy with my GX85 viewfinder. I am not so bothered with that it's probably sequential field variety, but it's definitely small and not very well suited for exact focusing and framing.

So, what are the better and best options in this respect? EM10? EM5? EM1? G85? G9? I have heard the names, but still do not have much idea about their comparative qualities. GX9 is probably the same...

Please comment: I am a pretty recent MFT shooter. Thanks!

Let me explain. I'm an amateur taking mostly wildlife, landscape and general travel. I've had various OVF and EVF cameras over the years, and not had a problem with any of them, nor have I noticed "tearing" in EVF's, but then I don't often shoot fast moving subjects.

Anyway, I shoot RAW, and I use the viewfinder for framing and nowadays for spotting blown highlights, or making other exposure compensation adjustments.

The colour and resolution (within reason!) of an EVF really don't concern me, in my nice-to-have but not essential list.

Maybe Im just not very discriminating, but anyone out there feel the same?

Dave

Diane B · Aug 15, 2018

Yes I agree. i want a decent EVF primarily for framing, choosing focus point, blown highlights, peaking. I might also use it to zoom in for focusing in macro—but otherwise tearing, color don’t matter as much.

Unfortunately with my much used GX85 I found framing and choosing focus point a very difficult task just yesterday and it made an otherwise good day for shooting a very frustrating day. I knew the compromises with its EVF but had sort of just lived with it—until I didn’t want to any longer LOL. I hope Panasonic will reconsider an upgrade to the GX9 sometime—it won’t work for my needs primarily because of the EVF—and the G9 is more camera than I want both in size and features.

--
Diane B
http://www.pbase.com/picnic
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38647240@N00/

FrankS009 · Aug 15, 2018

A GX8 II?

F.

Ted_G · Aug 15, 2018

I recently had the EMI MKII, G9, X-H1, X-T2, and A7MIII all lined up with pro glass mounted.

The G9 is...if you will pardon the hyperbole...insanely awesome and immersive. The Olympus is a decent "natural flat" view and surprisingly liked it more than both Fuji's which are both pretty darn good too.

To my eyes the Sony EVF was disappointing given the hype and dead last compared to the other 4. Again my eyes are different from yours but the quality difference was pretty shocking.

In actual use my only minor quibble regarding the G9 EVF is it's failure to rotate all shooting info when in portrait mode. It is possible I missed a setting for that....or maybe it gets sorted in a firmware update.

You will have to try them to find your preference. I was...and remain...amazed at G9 EVF to make shooting even more enjoyable. I run mine in boost mode (why wouldn't you

) and it's something special.

Apologies if this comes off a bit fanboi....I also really enjoyed 4 years of Fuji and 20+ years of Canon. Getting me this into a piece of tech takes some doing!

Tom Caldwell · Aug 15, 2018

G9 viewfinder is big bright and clear - for those that need such an evf - the G9 evf can be recommended.

Much mud has been thrown at the Panasonic field sequential evf and it is acknowledged that there is a small number of camera users who simply cannot abide it. On the other hand the smaller evf unit seems to allow cameras to be built in the RF style and the GM5 is the epitome of a camera that responds well to a very compact evf of good capability.

I have no problems with using such a tiny but effective evf unit. I would recommend that the magnified screen should be set to full screen and not to the patch as with such a small evf even I find the magnified patch next to useless. But magnified full screen is very good and of course can be “turned up to” 10x if desired. Unmagnified “composition mode” is .... well .... just “composition mode” and just for placing objects within a frame - I no longer need to see detail.

So perhaps my workflow is dfferent to others and this might help explain just why the “big bright evf units” are so well liked.

Hereby we might have the disjunct between “big bright and clear” and “compact but gets the job done”.

However if this is the case “any” evf will suit the “getting the job done” photographer whilst only the biggest brightest and clearest evf will be suitable for those that wish to take more time in perfecting their captures. There is room for both and I am thankful that Panasonic perseveres with their compact sequential field evf units and gives us some choices.

I also have a G9 and hardly notice the evf as being any different - that means no more than that my workflow does not need the extra size and clarity it obviously offers.

Tom Caldwell · Aug 15, 2018

Diane B said:
Yes I agree. i want a decent EVF primarily for framing, choosing focus point, blown highlights, peaking. I might also use it to zoom in for focusing in macro—but otherwise tearing, color don’t matter as much.

Unfortunately with my much used GX85 I found framing and choosing focus point a very difficult task just yesterday and it made an otherwise good day for shooting a very frustrating day. I knew the compromises with its EVF but had sort of just lived with it—until I didn’t want to any longer LOL. I hope Panasonic will reconsider an upgrade to the GX9 sometime—it won’t work for my needs primarily because of the EVF—and the G9 is more camera than I want both in size and features.

norman shearer · Aug 15, 2018

GX8 VF is excellent and you may grow to love the fact it can tilt. If you ever adapt legacy glass to your camera you'll appreciate just how easy it is to nail focus - often with no need to magnify the image.

EVF aside you'll get the 20MP sensor, weather sealing and a body that is a good compromise on size allowing you to comfortably use most m43 lenses.

On the negative. The ibis is a little behind GX85.

Ted_G · Aug 16, 2018

Just a slight update to my earlier post as I was on the beach today indulging in attempted BIF's (I will post a couple later). In bright direct sun i could not tell this was an EVF versus an OVF....it's that good a display.

As a side note the "pumping" DFD AF takes a little getting used to. CAF with SH1 and 2 works pretty well given these were diving birds randomly swerving in strong wind.

Anyway back to the EVF

DiffractionLtd · Aug 16, 2018

I looked through Leica's SL ($12,000) viewfinder. Big, bright, but the Panasonic GX8 viewfinder looked better. So far, it's the best one I've seen or used in a camera, including the FF Sony's. I would love (it won't be) if it was in the Olympus E-5MIII.

good, better, and best viewfinders in MFT world?

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