Saw the Canon 300D today

Hi all:

I actually saw and held the Digital Rebel today. I know I'm a Nikon fan, but my gosh... This thing is so light it feels like I'm holding a Fuji Finepix 2800 (That plastic feel). The D100 feels like an F5 compared to this Digital Rebel.

I took a few shots with it in the store today. It's definitely been made "cheaper" in more ways than one.

We all know those nice little "glowing" rectangles in the viewfinder with our Nikons that indicate focus area of concentration... This one has little LED lights that look like an old time pinball LED lights. There is no area focus spot for the lower part of the viewfinder. All areas are spread to the left, right and above the center of the viewfinder.

The lens is basically similar to the Nikon 28-85 G lens. It's very light and the inside of the lens pops in and out as you zoom. The shutter has a very loud "click" when you snap off a shot. Focusing is SLOW. Very very slow.

I had to press the shutter a few times to get it to focus properly in the store when shooting at subjects very near or not as "defined" in the viewfinder. For example...if someone was standing very close to a shelf of merchandise, the AF had some trouble. If they moved forward and away from the shelf, the camera found it's focus point well.

While I could only review the shots on the viewfinder, they looked ok... proper color, balance, clarity...etc.. The camera has basic information in the viewfinder. I really didn't like the LED's in the viewfinder and found them distracting... I much prefer the softer shaded light indicator of the Nikon.

CompUSA was selling it at a price of $999.

I'm not sure if it's a show stopper or just a toy. Time will tell.

http://www.pbase.com/loansharkx

Regards,

Julio

should be very heavy because then there is less trembling and pics are more sharp.

I believe it is a strong indication of increased stratification in the DSLR market. Right now we can all name all of the DSLRs available. Within 5 years we will not be able to keep track of them all. There will be the $1000 market segment, the $900 market segment, and so on. This digital Rebel is just the beginning.

-Mark

Sotare said:

should be very heavy because then there is less trembling and pics
are more sharp.

Click to expand...

And exactly how heavy does it need to be? The Digital Rebel is still heavier than both the Nikon N80 and Canon Elan 7. Seems everyone was able to use those cameras just fine without trembling.

As for the autofocus, it may be shocking to believe this, but the Canon Rebel Ti, Digital Rebel, Elan 7, and 10D, as well as the Nikon N55, N65, N80, and D100 all have the same level of autofocus performance. The Nikons may have a bit more sensitivity when the light gets really low, but under Best Buy lighting conditions, there should be no perceptible difference at all. Don't be fooled about the exterior differences.

The autofocus modules inside are the same for the Canons and the same for the Nikons. The bodies may fool you, but what's under the hood is the same! Maybe that lens was slow, but the Digital Rebel should have the same autofocus speed as my 10D, which is very fast. Plus, plenty of others have reported that the Digital Rebel has very fast autofocus. I think if you had side-by-side blind tests, you'd find that there isn't much of anything to seperate the autofocus performance of any of the above models. It's only when you get up to the 1D/1Ds or D1x/D1H levels that you see a different focus module being used. Sometimes our perceptions/biases tend to skew our judgement.

Mark Burnham said:

I believe it is a strong indication of increased stratification in
the DSLR market. Right now we can all name all of the DSLRs
available. Within 5 years we will not be able to keep track of
them all. There will be the $1000 market segment, the $900 market
segment, and so on. This digital Rebel is just the beginning.

Click to expand...

Yes, it will be just like film SLRs. Not sure why that should be so surprising. Different models for different price points and different levels. Yes, the digital Rebel is just the beginning. The early bird gets the worm.

I agree. However, I believed for many years that the early bird got the worm. Until I realized that the second mouse gets the cheese. Let Canon go first.

Peter Phan said:

Yes, it will be just like film SLRs. Not sure why that should be
so surprising. Different models for different price points and
different levels. Yes, the digital Rebel is just the beginning.
The early bird gets the worm.

Click to expand...

--
Larry Gleason

The Canon AF in low light is inferior as compared to Nikon AF. Even my EOS 1V with a f2.8 lens in low light is much slower than my F100 with a f4.5 lens, the AF accuracy of Canon AF is also in question in my detailed test.

What I love Canon AF is the settable flexible 45 AF points to suit different needs and its tracking ability (not necessary highly accurate), many important moment is to catch it right in the moment.

Try to focus in low light with a Canon and a Nikon, you will see what I mean.

Peter Phan said:

Sotare said:

should be very heavy because then there is less trembling and pics
are more sharp.

Click to expand...

And exactly how heavy does it need to be? The Digital Rebel is
still heavier than both the Nikon N80 and Canon Elan 7. Seems
everyone was able to use those cameras just fine without trembling.

As for the autofocus, it may be shocking to believe this, but the
Canon Rebel Ti, Digital Rebel, Elan 7, and 10D, as well as the
Nikon N55, N65, N80, and D100 all have the same level of autofocus
performance. The Nikons may have a bit more sensitivity when the
light gets really low, but under Best Buy lighting conditions,
there should be no perceptible difference at all. Don't be fooled
about the exterior differences.

The autofocus modules inside are the same for the Canons and the
same for the Nikons. The bodies may fool you, but what's under the
hood is the same! Maybe that lens was slow, but the Digital Rebel
should have the same autofocus speed as my 10D, which is very fast.
Plus, plenty of others have reported that the Digital Rebel has
very fast autofocus. I think if you had side-by-side blind tests,
you'd find that there isn't much of anything to seperate the
autofocus performance of any of the above models. It's only when
you get up to the 1D/1Ds or D1x/D1H levels that you see a different
focus module being used. Sometimes our perceptions/biases tend to
skew our judgement.

Click to expand...

--
Nikon F100, Nikon FM3A, Canon EOS 1V
Olymbus 3030, Nikon 995, Canon G2
Radio call sign VR2XEE
Handheld ham transceiver - Yaesu VX-5

Funny you said the focusing is slow?!, the focusing is not** slow (that is to say it is faster than the D100) However, the plastic body is a major turnoff, not near the quality feel of the D100's plastic or 10D magnesium (which feels great!).

As far as image quality goes, I shot some comparisons (sorry I don't have an account like Pbase or anything to post stuff), but the comparisons were enough to make the 300D not an option for me. For those who like the image quality of the 10D, the 300D might be an option for you (albeit it a plasticy one lacking convinient controls compared to the 10D or D100 & their nicer materials. The prints on a Fuji Frontier printer, also looked "digital to me," but again for those who don't mind/like canon image quality, rest assured the images looked like this with good detail up to 10"x15"- the largest our Fuji prints. Detailed yes, sharp (accutance) no.

Nonetheless, it was the first day we got them in, and yes they ALL had names on them reserving them and 3 left the doors within hours of arrival. I guess this is a true consumer camera, these people don't necessarily know what great image quality looks like nor do they all need it for "memory snapshots", but the price is good so they sell very well.

I don't know then if slow is the right word. The lens seemed "confused" or lagged for a second or two.

At one point I double checked to make sure the power was still on to make sure the camera hadn't shut off on me while I was holding the shutter release halfway down trying to get the darn thing to focus.

It's a decent camera and I'm sure it'll have it's niche considering there's no competition down in that price range right now on DSLR's. Canon stands alone...probably a good thing right now for them.

There's many factors to be concerned with for the higher end amateur... such as no flash compensation, no temperature adjustment capability and no white balance fine tuning are big ones. Also the fact that you can't get too flexible in the shutter or aperature priority modes makes for some questioning by the higher end amatuers, meaning that this is not the camera for them.

This camera is clearly aimed at the novice or family photographer who wants the flexibility of digital and an SLR without needing to break out manuals to figure out how to take good pictures. Call it the prosumer camera with interchangeable lenses.

If I were looking at a Canon, I'd opt for the 10D before buying the Digital Rebel. At least with the 10D you can grow more as a photographer as your skills improve.

http://www.pbase.com/loansharkx

Regards,

Julio

Jason B said:

Funny you said the focusing is slow?!, the focusing is not** slow
(that is to say it is faster than the D100) However, the plastic
body is a major turnoff, not near the quality feel of the D100's
plastic or 10D magnesium (which feels great!).
As far as image quality goes, I shot some comparisons (sorry I
don't have an account like Pbase or anything to post stuff), but
the comparisons were enough to make the 300D not an option for me.
For those who like the image quality of the 10D, the 300D might be
an option for you (albeit it a plasticy one lacking convinient
controls compared to the 10D or D100 & their nicer materials. The
prints on a Fuji Frontier printer, also looked "digital to me," but
again for those who don't mind/like canon image quality, rest
assured the images looked like this with good detail up to 10"x15"-
the largest our Fuji prints. Detailed yes, sharp (accutance) no.
Nonetheless, it was the first day we got them in, and yes they ALL
had names on them reserving them and 3 left the doors within hours
of arrival. I guess this is a true consumer camera, these people
don't necessarily know what great image quality looks like nor do
they all need it for "memory snapshots", but the price is good so
they sell very well.

Click to expand...

Someday I'm going to do an entire shoot with a 300D to show you clowns that the 300D is more than good enough for the task-- featurewise and imagewise! It's incredible the things people want to nitpick on such a price-breaking body. For example, I've never even used "temperature adjustments" or "white balance fine tuning". So these are "big concerns?" In all honesty, I don't even know what those things are! I just use an Expo/Disc for tricky WB situations. And as for flash exposure compensation, I can set it on both my Canon 550EX and my Sigma EF-500 Super.

Plus, the fact that I can get a 300D ($900), with battery grip ($130), extra battery ($35), and about five 512 MB CF cards (!) for the price of a single D100 will probably help me get over the idea that the 300D's plastic doesn't feel as nice as the D00'd plastic. Big whoop. You and your wallet will get over it in the first week.

Julio S said:

At one point I double checked to make sure the power was still on
to make sure the camera hadn't shut off on me while I was holding
the shutter release halfway down trying to get the darn thing to
focus.

It's a decent camera and I'm sure it'll have it's niche considering
there's no competition down in that price range right now on
DSLR's. Canon stands alone...probably a good thing right now for
them.

There's many factors to be concerned with for the higher end
amateur... such as no flash compensation, no temperature adjustment
capability and no white balance fine tuning are big ones. Also the
fact that you can't get too flexible in the shutter or aperature
priority modes makes for some questioning by the higher end
amatuers, meaning that this is not the camera for them.

This camera is clearly aimed at the novice or family photographer
who wants the flexibility of digital and an SLR without needing to
break out manuals to figure out how to take good pictures. Call it
the prosumer camera with interchangeable lenses.

If I were looking at a Canon, I'd opt for the 10D before buying the
Digital Rebel. At least with the 10D you can grow more as a
photographer as your skills improve.

http://www.pbase.com/loansharkx

Regards,

Julio

Jason B said:

Funny you said the focusing is slow?!, the focusing is not** slow
(that is to say it is faster than the D100) However, the plastic
body is a major turnoff, not near the quality feel of the D100's
plastic or 10D magnesium (which feels great!).
As far as image quality goes, I shot some comparisons (sorry I
don't have an account like Pbase or anything to post stuff), but
the comparisons were enough to make the 300D not an option for me.
For those who like the image quality of the 10D, the 300D might be
an option for you (albeit it a plasticy one lacking convinient
controls compared to the 10D or D100 & their nicer materials. The
prints on a Fuji Frontier printer, also looked "digital to me," but
again for those who don't mind/like canon image quality, rest
assured the images looked like this with good detail up to 10"x15"-
the largest our Fuji prints. Detailed yes, sharp (accutance) no.
Nonetheless, it was the first day we got them in, and yes they ALL
had names on them reserving them and 3 left the doors within hours
of arrival. I guess this is a true consumer camera, these people
don't necessarily know what great image quality looks like nor do
they all need it for "memory snapshots", but the price is good so
they sell very well.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Peter,

All I know about the 300D is that its basically a "dumbed" down version of the 10D. Hopefully it won't have the same focusing issues. I'm sure that it will take good pics.

That said if you are going to buy a DSLR why buy a 300D? Its a few hundred dollars cheaper than other choices, has less options, and a cheaper body. Your main expense is going to be the $ you spend for glass. I just don't see going for the 300D. I would rather go for the 10D, S2 or the D100. Its a brillant marketing ploy by Canon who will make $ selling lenses but is a good choice when compared to other DSLRs?

Harry

http://www.pbase.com/hpb

--

'We don't make a photograph just with a camera; we bring to the act of photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen, the music we have heard, the people we have loved.' Ansel Adams

Harry Behret said:

Peter,

All I know about the 300D is that its basically a "dumbed" down
version of the 10D. Hopefully it won't have the same focusing
issues. I'm sure that it will take good pics.

That said if you are going to buy a DSLR why buy a 300D? Its a few
hundred dollars cheaper than other choices, has less options, and a
cheaper body. Your main expense is going to be the $ you spend for
glass. I just don't see going for the 300D. I would rather go for
the 10D, S2 or the D100. Its a brillant marketing ploy by Canon who
will make $ selling lenses but is a good choice when compared to
other DSLRs?

Click to expand...

Yes, it is at least $600 less expensive.

Harry Behret said:

Peter,

All I know about the 300D is that its basically a "dumbed" down
version of the 10D. Hopefully it won't have the same focusing
issues. I'm sure that it will take good pics.

That said if you are going to buy a DSLR why buy a 300D? Its a few
hundred dollars cheaper than other choices, has less options, and a
cheaper body. Your main expense is going to be the $ you spend for
glass. I just don't see going for the 300D. I would rather go for
the 10D, S2 or the D100. Its a brillant marketing ploy by Canon who
will make $ selling lenses but is a good choice when compared to
other DSLRs?

Click to expand...

I already have a 10D. The 300D is going to be my back-up and secondary body. It'll also be my choice for travel and light-weight fun, where I want something more compact and lighter but I don't want to sacrifice quality or flexibility. In other words, I'll be able to leave my 10D at home and take the 300D instead.

And besides, for most casual shooting situations or travel, I don't need anything more than Av, CWB, One-Shot (focus lock) and on-demand partial metering-- all of which the 300D has. In fact, a good deal of shooting doesn't require more than those simple capabilities.

So, yes, it is a good choice compared to other DSLRs, if your needs are simpler but you still want the flexibility of an SLR system. The essential stuff is there, at much lower cost. And at $900, it is a much lower cost. You can put the money you save into glass.

It's like getting the car you want, but without all the extra amenities (CD, leather, moonroof, power windows and doors, satellite navigation, etc). Hey, as long as the engine and performance is basically the same, right?

........ a pleasant and accurate “enough” report, thanks.

I think it bares out my own posts, it's a "toy" if one already owns a D100 (or 10D), it’s not if one has never handled a D100 or better before.

It's image quality is good but in comparison to digicams, it competes with the medium and higher end digicams and not the D100 or 10D and certainly not against anything better than that.

Dude, reading your post is soo annoying.

Peter Phan said:

Plus, the fact that I can get a 300D ($900), with battery grip
($130), extra battery ($35), and about five 512 MB CF cards (!) for
the price of a single D100 will probably help me get over the idea
that the 300D's plastic doesn't feel as nice as the D00'd plastic.
Big whoop. You and your wallet will get over it in the first week.

Julio S said:

At one point I double checked to make sure the power was still on
to make sure the camera hadn't shut off on me while I was holding
the shutter release halfway down trying to get the darn thing to
focus.

It's a decent camera and I'm sure it'll have it's niche considering
there's no competition down in that price range right now on
DSLR's. Canon stands alone...probably a good thing right now for
them.

There's many factors to be concerned with for the higher end
amateur... such as no flash compensation, no temperature adjustment
capability and no white balance fine tuning are big ones. Also the
fact that you can't get too flexible in the shutter or aperature
priority modes makes for some questioning by the higher end
amatuers, meaning that this is not the camera for them.

This camera is clearly aimed at the novice or family photographer
who wants the flexibility of digital and an SLR without needing to
break out manuals to figure out how to take good pictures. Call it
the prosumer camera with interchangeable lenses.

If I were looking at a Canon, I'd opt for the 10D before buying the
Digital Rebel. At least with the 10D you can grow more as a
photographer as your skills improve.

http://www.pbase.com/loansharkx

Regards,

Julio

Jason B said:

Funny you said the focusing is slow?!, the focusing is not** slow
(that is to say it is faster than the D100) However, the plastic
body is a major turnoff, not near the quality feel of the D100's
plastic or 10D magnesium (which feels great!).
As far as image quality goes, I shot some comparisons (sorry I
don't have an account like Pbase or anything to post stuff), but
the comparisons were enough to make the 300D not an option for me.
For those who like the image quality of the 10D, the 300D might be
an option for you (albeit it a plasticy one lacking convinient
controls compared to the 10D or D100 & their nicer materials. The
prints on a Fuji Frontier printer, also looked "digital to me," but
again for those who don't mind/like canon image quality, rest
assured the images looked like this with good detail up to 10"x15"-
the largest our Fuji prints. Detailed yes, sharp (accutance) no.
Nonetheless, it was the first day we got them in, and yes they ALL
had names on them reserving them and 3 left the doors within hours
of arrival. I guess this is a true consumer camera, these people
don't necessarily know what great image quality looks like nor do
they all need it for "memory snapshots", but the price is good so
they sell very well.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
------------------------------



I'm Canadian. I miss ketchup chips.

inhousephoto inc. digital • photography • media
http://www.inhousephoto.com

Actually Peter... you probably gathered I didn't like the camera. I don't.

It's a stripped down Lexus. The sensor is the biggest attraction. This is kind of like the theme park that you see the big roller coaster from afar and when you get there you see that the big hump was the only drop in the ride and the rest of the ride goes 20 mph.

If I were in the market for a Canon camera, I'd clearly save a few more pennies and get the 10D, which I consider to be a far superior camera and truly a almost perfect substitute for the D100. In some cases the Nikon D100 excels and in others the 10D excels.

Just like I wouldn't buy a N55 Nikon camera, I wouldn't buy the 300D.

The 10D gives folks much more room for flexibility and room to grow photographically if they desire. The 300D will be great for the novice who will never move off of point and shoot mode.

For the creative photographer...this isn't their camera.

I'll call the 300D the "Handicapped 10D" or perhaps a "10D lite".

The jury is still out...this is a new camera, but I believe this camera after the "newness" factor wears off and people really start using it, they'll find themselves wanting that 10D anyway.

Regards,

Julio

Peter Phan said:

Plus, the fact that I can get a 300D ($900), with battery grip
($130), extra battery ($35), and about five 512 MB CF cards (!) for
the price of a single D100 will probably help me get over the idea
that the 300D's plastic doesn't feel as nice as the D00'd plastic.
Big whoop. You and your wallet will get over it in the first week.

Julio S said:

At one point I double checked to make sure the power was still on
to make sure the camera hadn't shut off on me while I was holding
the shutter release halfway down trying to get the darn thing to
focus.

It's a decent camera and I'm sure it'll have it's niche considering
there's no competition down in that price range right now on
DSLR's. Canon stands alone...probably a good thing right now for
them.

There's many factors to be concerned with for the higher end
amateur... such as no flash compensation, no temperature adjustment
capability and no white balance fine tuning are big ones. Also the
fact that you can't get too flexible in the shutter or aperature
priority modes makes for some questioning by the higher end
amatuers, meaning that this is not the camera for them.

This camera is clearly aimed at the novice or family photographer
who wants the flexibility of digital and an SLR without needing to
break out manuals to figure out how to take good pictures. Call it
the prosumer camera with interchangeable lenses.

If I were looking at a Canon, I'd opt for the 10D before buying the
Digital Rebel. At least with the 10D you can grow more as a
photographer as your skills improve.

http://www.pbase.com/loansharkx

Regards,

Julio

Jason B said:

Funny you said the focusing is slow?!, the focusing is not** slow
(that is to say it is faster than the D100) However, the plastic
body is a major turnoff, not near the quality feel of the D100's
plastic or 10D magnesium (which feels great!).
As far as image quality goes, I shot some comparisons (sorry I
don't have an account like Pbase or anything to post stuff), but
the comparisons were enough to make the 300D not an option for me.
For those who like the image quality of the 10D, the 300D might be
an option for you (albeit it a plasticy one lacking convinient
controls compared to the 10D or D100 & their nicer materials. The
prints on a Fuji Frontier printer, also looked "digital to me," but
again for those who don't mind/like canon image quality, rest
assured the images looked like this with good detail up to 10"x15"-
the largest our Fuji prints. Detailed yes, sharp (accutance) no.
Nonetheless, it was the first day we got them in, and yes they ALL
had names on them reserving them and 3 left the doors within hours
of arrival. I guess this is a true consumer camera, these people
don't necessarily know what great image quality looks like nor do
they all need it for "memory snapshots", but the price is good so
they sell very well.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Peter,

I can understand getting the 300D if you are locked into Canon glass and need a second/backup camera. Now if you didn't already have the 10D would you buy a 300D? My point is that if one wants to go the DSLR route there are much better choices available. When one compares your final cost of a DSLR (glass, filters, memory, tripod, etc) the few hundred you save buying a 300d is basically "chump change".

Harry

http://www.pbase.com/hpb
--

'We don't make a photograph just with a camera; we bring to the act of photography all the books we have read, the movies we have seen, the music we have heard, the people we have loved.' Ansel Adams

Peter Phan said:

Plus, the fact that I can get a 300D ($900), with battery grip
($130), extra battery ($35), and about five 512 MB CF cards (!) for
the price of a single D100

Click to expand...

Like an old sign in the corner store said "We have no quarrel with those who sell for less... they know what their stuff is worth" :> )

= Dan =

--
Richard D.
http://members.aol.com/richdong
http://www.photocritique.net/g/phtg?RICHARD+DONG

Peter, please be nice - no need to name call aka 'you clowns'. It is kind of like the pot calling the kettle black. I am sure the Digital Rebel is 'up to the task' (however it is you define the task I guess) and soon Canon will discontinue the 10D 1D and the 1Ds much like the D30, D60, etc.

I have looked at the camera it is fine step forward and has forced the others and Canon to lower their prices...and it will create more competition which in the end is good for all of us consumers. Is it some sort of pancea - no! Maybe more pandoras box.

Cheers. Terry.

Peter Phan said:

Plus, the fact that I can get a 300D ($900), with battery grip
($130), extra battery ($35), and about five 512 MB CF cards (!) for
the price of a single D100 will probably help me get over the idea
that the 300D's plastic doesn't feel as nice as the D00'd plastic.
Big whoop. You and your wallet will get over it in the first week.

Julio S said:

At one point I double checked to make sure the power was still on
to make sure the camera hadn't shut off on me while I was holding
the shutter release halfway down trying to get the darn thing to
focus.

It's a decent camera and I'm sure it'll have it's niche considering
there's no competition down in that price range right now on
DSLR's. Canon stands alone...probably a good thing right now for
them.

There's many factors to be concerned with for the higher end
amateur... such as no flash compensation, no temperature adjustment
capability and no white balance fine tuning are big ones. Also the
fact that you can't get too flexible in the shutter or aperature
priority modes makes for some questioning by the higher end
amatuers, meaning that this is not the camera for them.

This camera is clearly aimed at the novice or family photographer
who wants the flexibility of digital and an SLR without needing to
break out manuals to figure out how to take good pictures. Call it
the prosumer camera with interchangeable lenses.

If I were looking at a Canon, I'd opt for the 10D before buying the
Digital Rebel. At least with the 10D you can grow more as a
photographer as your skills improve.

http://www.pbase.com/loansharkx

Regards,

Julio

Jason B said:

Funny you said the focusing is slow?!, the focusing is not** slow
(that is to say it is faster than the D100) However, the plastic
body is a major turnoff, not near the quality feel of the D100's
plastic or 10D magnesium (which feels great!).
As far as image quality goes, I shot some comparisons (sorry I
don't have an account like Pbase or anything to post stuff), but
the comparisons were enough to make the 300D not an option for me.
For those who like the image quality of the 10D, the 300D might be
an option for you (albeit it a plasticy one lacking convinient
controls compared to the 10D or D100 & their nicer materials. The
prints on a Fuji Frontier printer, also looked "digital to me," but
again for those who don't mind/like canon image quality, rest
assured the images looked like this with good detail up to 10"x15"-
the largest our Fuji prints. Detailed yes, sharp (accutance) no.
Nonetheless, it was the first day we got them in, and yes they ALL
had names on them reserving them and 3 left the doors within hours
of arrival. I guess this is a true consumer camera, these people
don't necessarily know what great image quality looks like nor do
they all need it for "memory snapshots", but the price is good so
they sell very well.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Click to expand...