Tommi K1 wrote:
Jorginho wrote:
We can learn everything if we put our will behind it. And if that is the standard, than intuitivity is lost on devices who operate on the basis of that.
There is no such thing as intuitivity. No one is tabula rasa and master of everything that is "intuitive".
No one claims the opposite of intuition, no one says that without a look at a manual one can be the master via intuition. That is your claim.
You must replace the word "intuitive" with word "familiar" and now you really understand what it is all about, it is about your previous experiences and knowledge to help that you can use something that you have not used previously by using other informations and hints to use it.
No it is intuition. Intuition indeed means that your brain, always looking for recognition and patterns (which are trained by our passed) tries to find it by using that knowledge.
Familair means something else. If one asks in a broader sense "Are you familiar with camera's) and one has used 2-3 one can say "yes". If is asked if someone is familiar with a certain brand one has never used, the person will say "no".
If people, like me, find that jumping from Canon to Nikon and Panasonic all caused little problems. May be they had to look for some functions here and there that were relatively easily found and once found they most of the times could easily retrieve these settings when needed. They can say that they were intuitive to them or came natural, may be after some time spending with the cam.
When one, after having that experience even more so I guess, comes to the conclusion that he or she just can't figure out the next brand of cam and seems to lose knowledge on how it works time and time again one can say that the way the cam operates is lost on them, does not come natural or to them makes no sense.
Intution is based on an expectation, familiar is based on specific knowledge I think.
It is like most standard Rewind, Play/Pause, Stop and Forward buttons. They are not intuitive at all! But people do think so! Because so many has got familiar with those simple icons from their childhoods or first time using a such device that had them.
..
All devices are operating based some kind knowledge. Either you learn exactly to use them, or you learn to operate the principles. I can fly a russian aircraft has has all labels in cyrillic even when I don't know what the heck anything says, because there are very good logic how controls are placed and as I learned to fly first with principles instead what to do and when. Then when you get a fuze switch box front of you that is 6 by 7 grid and all looks same, then I am lost as I can't read cyrillic.
Because you are familiar with aeroplanes, but not a Tupolev for instance. In order to keep things safe and simple it might be advisable to keep most things the same in most planes. Having the same basic funtions yet placing them on a very different place is one thing, having loads of other funtions on top of that does make it worse. I guess anyone would say that he/she was unfamiliar with the plane. When one still knew how to fly it pretty soon, one can say it was intuitive. When one however would say that he could make head nor tail of it we can safely say it was not a very intuitive plain for him....
Meanwhile my Oly 4K is stuck in Flat View or something similar and the SCP nor anything I can find in the menu can make me change that...Great.
Flat profile. By default Fn2 button is a Multi Function custom button that you can change to something else if you want. But that MF Fn button operates so that you press and hold it to get multiple function menu and there you can find a Highlight & Shadow control option. Then press Fn2 again and you get to adjust it with front/rear dials.
That makes perfect sense....
That was the E-M1. In E-M1 II the menu has own Video Menu under Shooting Menu 2, from where you do all video settings separately from the photos.
Shooting menu 2...is the video menu? So why not call it "Video menu"?
Like a car where you have a gas and a brake handle. But Oly calls them direction 1 and direction 2...
Just like a camera that has a touchscreen. So people expect, out of past experience, that you can touch it and some function will be activated...
With Oly you can touch it but either nothing happens OR you have to unlock it time and time again (to select pics). A time consuming experience and surely not consistent in my book.
Camera's for me should not get in my way and the Oly is very much in my way.
If you go to menus to play around and you have no idea what you are a doing, don't whine that camera is on your way when you don't know what you are doing in the first place! That button even has the icon on it!
Well that is how it worked just fine with the other brands I mentioned. But may be it true for more people than just me: when you go and do that with the Oly do not expect it to make a lot of sense
Do guess how many has even noticed that blue [v] icon next to REC button? How many has logic to spot that blue color is same as the Playback icon has?
BEcause I do not expect to find anything anymore on the body since the most basic things are missing. I have no ISO button, no exposure compensation, no WB, no switch between S-AF, C-AF or MF. But in Olympusland it makes sense to make a dedicated button for a blue V I guess.
How many has logic that is selection button for the Playback mode where you can mark multiple images to be deleted, shared or locked?
Don't understand your question. It makes more sense to me that I can go to the view button, then select erase and since it is a touchscreen I can than selectand delete. Which you can almost do with the Oly (you need to unlock the toucnscreen first though..).
How many has the information that Menu > Shooting Menu > Card Setup > Delete All is there to make things easy as it deletes all images that are not locked?
What is the complaint actually? Anyways: with my GH4 I can immediately select favourits. Once selected I can delete it. Cam asks "delete all" and "Delete all but keep the favourites"
That allows very easy image management on the go as you can lock the keepers and then just clear more space for memory card by deleting every image that ain't locked.
Yeah well it is pretty similar with Panasonic. Terminology seems a bit different.
Also note that extreme customisability, which many people in such threads put forward as an excuse or to counterbalance "negativity" is a strawmen argument. No one is saying it is not hugely customisable at all.
That is the downside of it. People go and customize things, play around and they don't even remember them doing anything, instead they point their finger at someone else and say "That did it!". They get used to their customs and then when they reset camera or get new body, they are wondering why it is different.
With an Olympus camera it is a problem. With a Panasonic camera it isn't. That is the point. I set C1. C2 adnd C3 and they cover 90% of my shooting. I love them because it means getting out of the menusytem. This is also a veryfrequent advise by those who respond to people like me who complain.
Another frequent response is the SCP panel which covers again many but not all settings...In general people tell us complainers to use it. Okey: but this all means that for those days that you need to change the cam into a setting not in C1,2,3 nor on the SCP you need to menudive. Which you did not want to do in the first place and when you do so you quickly (well: I!) remember why...
Finally people are absolutistic where this is personal. I never said the cam is bad etc or may be I do occasionally for the sake of keeping an answer short. This is mostly a personal preference. I never said everyone else sell the cam. Just me.
Yes, it is you.
Yes, it mostly about "you" when you say something and add it is personal.
You want something more complex that does things as you want with a press of a button.
Says who?
