Second Review - Now a Slight Downgrade

L

Lightpath48

Guest
After six weeks of intensely working with the ZS100 daily, I've become much better acquainted especially with the feature set and 4K video. Its still image quality is never going to be anything beyond slightly soft. Too bad. The gadgety interface, compact form and 10X zoom are all nice, but it's only going to turn out to be a family travels camera that occasionally comes out for family event candids and video. After its six week sabbatical, my DSLR came out and proved almost stunningly better for image quality, and quite faster and simpler to work with.
 
After six weeks of intensely working with the ZS100 daily, I've become much better acquainted especially with the feature set and 4K video. Its still image quality is never going to be anything beyond slightly soft. Too bad. The gadgety interface, compact form and 10X zoom are all nice, but it's only going to turn out to be a family travels camera that occasionally comes out for family event candids and video. After its six week sabbatical, my DSLR came out and proved almost stunningly better for image quality, and quite faster and simpler to work with.
Thanks for your post & opinion. These things are of course subjective.

My own opinion of the ZS/TZ echoes yours in terms of all you say but my opinions are somewhat less harsh and I think that for general use it's far more useful than you suggest. Perhaps I'm a bit less of a perfectionist and a little more realistic about my expectations than you.

The TZ100 has far better IQ than the 1/2.3 TZ's, not noticeably, when viewed on screen and with images captured in Mediterranean lighting conditions, but when viewed over a large range of diverse lighting conditions. I think it reasonable to state that vast numbers of the regular contributors to this forum, possibly even a majority are smitten by the small sensor TZ's (and FZ's) and many use them as their only camera. I did myself for a time. I had a slow progression from compacts via bridge cameras in to dslrs, maintaining at dslr level for several years followed by my eventually tiring of carrying a brick appendage around.

Yes the TZ100 lens has a propensity to softness (and arguably QC problems too) but the default settings are lousy and it's achieving what it does at the cutting edge of optical and computational photography, hence its lack of competition in the marketplace. Dialling down the NR completely and upping contrast and sharpness a little transform the jpeg output massively.

Your final statement has caused me a wry smile. Did you really expect the ZS100 to get a anywhere close in IQ to a behemoth of a DSLR containing a much bigger sensor and with a huge piece of rather less complex glass in front of it to gather the light? Surely not?

One has to keep some perspective about cameras, as we all keep saying on these forums. They all have compromises, however time and the advancement of technology are slowly diluting those, with the TZ100 (and now 200) at the forefront of that shift.

Finally,(said tongue in cheek), good luck putting your dslr, complete with 25-250 zoom lens in your jacket pocket and still appearing respectably smart on a day out. If you ever manage to whip it out for a grab shot, I'm sure you'll capture a much better image than with the TZ/ZS100 you left on the shelf at home for practical reasons.

The last two words in the sentence above sum up the TZ100 from my perspective.

Dave
 
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Mediocre for landscapes? Not this camera. It performs as well as any 1" camera. Of course a larger sensor is nicer, but I've got some really nice landscapes with my TZ110 and posted plenty here.
 
Mediocre for landscapes? Not this camera. It performs as well as any 1" camera.
Assuming you mean same size, like the Sony Rx100 series....Canon Gx7, etc.(or is it G7X)

If it can deliver as sharp results as my ( much larger, not take everywhere) FZ1000....I would be interested...but would think the lens on the FZ1000 will deliver better results across its zoom range,than either TZ100 or newer TZ200.
Of course a larger sensor is nicer, but I've got some really nice landscapes with my TZ110 and posted plenty here.
I see really good results with the TZ100.....but can it match the FZ1000?

That would be great if it can....same I.Q. in a much ...much smaller , almost pocketable size.

Aside from the slower lens....wondering if I.Q. is close, but doubt its same?

ANAYV
 
Mediocre for landscapes? Not this camera. It performs as well as any 1" camera.
Assuming you mean same size, like the Sony Rx100 series....Canon Gx7, etc.(or is it G7X)

If it can deliver as sharp results as my ( much larger, not take everywhere) FZ1000....I would be interested...but would think the lens on the FZ1000 will deliver better results across its zoom range,than either TZ100 or newer TZ200.
Of course a larger sensor is nicer, but I've got some really nice landscapes with my TZ110 and posted plenty here.
I see really good results with the TZ100.....but can it match the FZ1000?

That would be great if it can....same I.Q. in a much ...much smaller , almost pocketable size.

Aside from the slower lens....wondering if I.Q. is close, but doubt its same?

ANAYV
There must be a few people out there who have an FZ1000 & a TZ100 and could do a valid comparison, however I'm sure I know the answer. The FZ1000 will be very marginally better.

A few years back I had an FZ200 and a TZ60, both of which, to the best of my knowledge have the same 12mp sensor and were current models at the same time. There was very little in it, so much so that when I went to the local marina to do a series of comparison shots it was a case of one being better than the other for one shot and then role reversal for the next. On balance the FZ200 was marginally better IQ wise more times than the TZ100. As a photographic tool the FZ200 was much better but in terms of convenience the TZ60 won hands down.

I suspect the same will prevail with the FZ1000 V TZ100/200. The 200 has much the same IS as the 100 for the most part but it does it more consistently throughout the zoom range and for a greater % of images captured.

Dave
 
After six weeks of intensely working with the ZS100 daily, I've become much better acquainted especially with the feature set and 4K video. Its still image quality is never going to be anything beyond slightly soft. Too bad. The gadgety interface, compact form and 10X zoom are all nice, but it's only going to turn out to be a family travels camera that occasionally comes out for family event candids and video. After its six week sabbatical, my DSLR came out and proved almost stunningly better for image quality, and quite faster and simpler to work with.
Tools for the job in hand. Just because one of the tools gets less use really has no bearing on its effectiveness for its particular function when required.

DSLRs are a bit over the top, noisy and clumsy nowadays anyway unless you really need to capture sports stuff for a living. Large sensor quality is much easier to realise in a mirrorless camera if not better in many cases. I do sometimes wonder how many people on the forum think the DSLR setup gives the image quality.
 
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Mediocre for landscapes? Not this camera. It performs as well as any 1" camera.
Assuming you mean same size, like the Sony Rx100 series....Canon Gx7, etc.(or is it G7X)
I see really good results with the TZ100.....but can it match the FZ1000?

That would be great if it can....same I.Q. in a much ...much smaller , almost pocketable size.

Aside from the slower lens....wondering if I.Q. is close, but doubt its same?

ANAYV
A larger 1" camera such as the FZ1000 is less compromised and is sharper across the frame, corners, and any focal length.

If you like to shoot jpg sooc, then the larger camera wins. If you like to process raw, the difference is less, but the larger camera still has the overall edge on lens quality. If you pixel peep, you will notice. If you dont, then you are unlikely to notice.
 
After six weeks of intensely working with the ZS100 daily, I've become much better acquainted especially with the feature set and 4K video. Its still image quality is never going to be anything beyond slightly soft. Too bad. The gadgety interface, compact form and 10X zoom are all nice, but it's only going to turn out to be a family travels camera that occasionally comes out for family event candids and video. After its six week sabbatical, my DSLR came out and proved almost stunningly better for image quality, and quite faster and simpler to work with.
Thanks for your post & opinion. These things are of course subjective.

My own opinion of the ZS/TZ echoes yours in terms of all you say but my opinions are somewhat less harsh and I think that for general use it's far more useful than you suggest. Perhaps I'm a bit less of a perfectionist and a little more realistic about my expectations than you.

The TZ100 has far better IQ than the 1/2.3 TZ's, not noticeably, when viewed on screen and with images captured in Mediterranean lighting conditions, but when viewed over a large range of diverse lighting conditions. I think it reasonable to state that vast numbers of the regular contributors to this forum, possibly even a majority are smitten by the small sensor TZ's (and FZ's) and many use them as their only camera. I did myself for a time. I had a slow progression from compacts via bridge cameras in to dslrs, maintaining at dslr level for several years followed by my eventually tiring of carrying a brick appendage around.

Yes the TZ100 lens has a propensity to softness (and arguably QC problems too) but the default settings are lousy and it's achieving what it does at the cutting edge of optical and computational photography, hence its lack of competition in the marketplace. Dialling down the NR completely and upping contrast and sharpness a little transform the jpeg output massively.

Your final statement has caused me a wry smile. Did you really expect the ZS100 to get a anywhere close in IQ to a behemoth of a DSLR containing a much bigger sensor and with a huge piece of rather less complex glass in front of it to gather the light? Surely not?

One has to keep some perspective about cameras, as we all keep saying on these forums. They all have compromises, however time and the advancement of technology are slowly diluting those, with the TZ100 (and now 200) at the forefront of that shift.

Finally,(said tongue in cheek), good luck putting your dslr, complete with 25-250 zoom lens in your jacket pocket and still appearing respectably smart on a day out. If you ever manage to whip it out for a grab shot, I'm sure you'll capture a much better image than with the TZ/ZS100 you left on the shelf at home for practical reasons.

The last two words in the sentence above sum up the TZ100 from my perspective.

Dave
Fine, Dave. Thanks for taking the time to post, and enjoy your TZ200.
 
If the pro reviews, and the user reviews, reflect reality, then there is room for a compact which incorporates the zoom range of the TZ100 or TZ200, together with the phase detection focus, the articulated LCD, and other features of the Sony RX100 v. The cost of the latest Sony RXs is forbidding, but if the TX200 sells well, there's a market for more costly compacts.

For everyday use, I'm still devoted to my Sony RX100 ii. I stay with it because it has a bit more zoom range than the later RX models, and it also has a hot shoe, so I can use a small external flash, which comes in very handy at times, both indoors and as fill flash outdoors.
 
Mediocre for landscapes? Not this camera. It performs as well as any 1" camera. Of course a larger sensor is nicer, but I've got some really nice landscapes with my TZ110 and posted plenty here.
 
Mediocre for landscapes? Not this camera. It performs as well as any 1" camera.
Assuming you mean same size, like the Sony Rx100 series....Canon Gx7, etc.(or is it G7X)

If it can deliver as sharp results as my ( much larger, not take everywhere) FZ1000....I would be interested...but would think the lens on the FZ1000 will deliver better results across its zoom range,than either TZ100 or newer TZ200.
Of course a larger sensor is nicer, but I've got some really nice landscapes with my TZ110 and posted plenty here.
I see really good results with the TZ100.....but can it match the FZ1000?

That would be great if it can....same I.Q. in a much ...much smaller , almost pocketable size.

Aside from the slower lens....wondering if I.Q. is close, but doubt its same?

ANAYV
There must be a few people out there who have an FZ1000 & a TZ100 and could do a valid comparison, however I'm sure I know the answer. The FZ1000 will be very marginally better.

A few years back I had an FZ200 and a TZ60, both of which, to the best of my knowledge have the same 12mp sensor and were current models at the same time.
I had the FZ200 but kept my ZS3 for a while...then a ZS20...then ZS30..which I still carry with me most times, as its the smallest and lightest of the bunch.
There was very little in it, so much so that when I went to the local marina to do a series of comparison shots it was a case of one being better than the other for one shot and then role reversal for the next.
On balance the FZ200 was marginally better IQ wise more times than the TZ100.
Am I correct that you meant to type TZ60 and not TZ100?

I loved my FZ200 and kept it on f2.8 , with sharp results at the telephoto end.

But its not in same leage I.Q. wise as my FZ1000...mainly due to the highly favored 1" type sensor ( thank you Sony).
As a photographic tool the FZ200 was much better but in terms of convenience the TZ60 won hands down.
Yep.. For years I always had a FZ...along with a ZS.

Through in a LX a few times.

ZS for the wide end and of course due to its size, a take everywhere, always with you camera.

FZ for mainly the telephoto end...wildlife , birds and of course my many animal friends at local zoos.
I suspect the same will prevail with the FZ1000 V TZ100/200. The 200 has much the same IS as the 100 for the most part but it does it more consistently throughout the zoom range and for a greater % of images captured.
Personally I never had problems with any of my Panasonic cameras.

Thought the O.I.S was great..recently allowing for 1/40th at 720mm on my ZS60 ..and ...believe it or not...1/15th shutter at 1200mm on my FZ80!

Except for times one is taking photos with long shutter speeds of many seconds...my tripod belongs in a museum 😀

Amazing I.O.S.

Add in the twist effect while pressing the shutter and low shutter speeds need not be forced to raise ISO ( for static subjects)

Thanks for the response Dave.

Glad to hear your really enjoying your new toy...the TZ200!

One must bond with the camera to really get the most out of it..doesnt always happen.

Happy shooting

ANAYV
 
Mediocre for landscapes? Not this camera. It performs as well as any 1" camera.
Assuming you mean same size, like the Sony Rx100 series....Canon Gx7, etc.(or is it G7X)

I see really good results with the TZ100.....but can it match the FZ1000?

That would be great if it can....same I.Q. in a much ...much smaller , almost pocketable size.

Aside from the slower lens....wondering if I.Q. is close, but doubt its same?

ANAYV
A larger 1" camera such as the FZ1000 is less compromised and is sharper across the frame, corners, and any focal length.

If you like to shoot jpg sooc,
Nope...unfinished product, with someone elses (Panasonic) opinion on sharpness, contrast, saturation, NR levels, etc
then the larger camera wins. If you like to process raw,
Used to...not any more
the difference is less, but the larger camera still has the overall edge on lens quality.
So I must be in the third category, lol

I shoot jpeg, but like to process the images in Post.

I do use least processed PhotoStyle ( Natural) then I set in camera sharpness and NR set to lowest ( -5 ), and contrast to -1.

This allows for me to further cook ( process) the image, in many ways as one does with RAW, but I'm dealing with semi cook image, with corrections, and 8 bits. Still results after processing are way different. i start out with a flat, soft dull image....then come out with decent sharp image.
If you pixel peep, you will notice. If you dont, then you are unlikely to notice.
Sometimes...but after recently printing some images for display at workbench, I wonder why I bother 🤓

Thanks for your time to comment, Mario!
--
Have a shooting great day,
You too!

ANAYV
 
Lots of variability between ZS100 copies, IMO. I've tested four. Here's a full-zoom image from one I kept.


Full Image


100% Crop

I'm very pleased with mine. Yes the FZ1000 is a bit better, but it's a whole lot larger.

--
Phil
 
I do magazine photography, involving landscape and nature. If sharpness falls off away from the center of the composition to the degree of my ZS100 landscape output, those images are going to be passed up for others that show more uniform sharpness from edge to edge. People getting published in the magazine market use cameras in a different league than my ZS100 for landscape and nature submissions. I suppose my standards are quite high, but I can't rely on the ZS100 to compete at that level of work. Therefore for me, it is mediocre for landscape. I understand that other opinions differ on this forum.
Yes, your standards are quite high. The ZS100 is definitely not a professional camera. My friend's 42 MP Sony A7R II system would meet your standards; of course he has about $10K invested in the body and lenses.
 
I do magazine photography, involving landscape and nature. If sharpness falls off away from the center of the composition to the degree of my ZS100 landscape output, those images are going to be passed up for others that show more uniform sharpness from edge to edge. People getting published in the magazine market use cameras in a different league than my ZS100 for landscape and nature submissions. I suppose my standards are quite high, but I can't rely on the ZS100 to compete at that level of work. Therefore for me, it is mediocre for landscape. I understand that other opinions differ on this forum.
Yes, your standards are quite high. The ZS100 is definitely not a professional camera. My friend's 42 MP Sony A7R II system would meet your standards; of course he has about $10K invested in the body and lenses.
 
Lots of variability between ZS100 copies, IMO. I've tested four. Here's a full-zoom image from one I kept.


Full Image


100% Crop

I'm very pleased with mine. Yes the FZ1000 is a bit better, but it's a whole lot larger.

--
Phil
Phil

I considered my TZ100 to be a relatively good copy but I have to say this blows it away!

Dave
 
I do magazine photography, involving landscape and nature. If sharpness falls off away from the center of the composition to the degree of my ZS100 landscape output, those images are going to be passed up for others that show more uniform sharpness from edge to edge. People getting published in the magazine market use cameras in a different league than my ZS100 for landscape and nature submissions. I suppose my standards are quite high, but I can't rely on the ZS100 to compete at that level of work. Therefore for me, it is mediocre for landscape. I understand that other opinions differ on this forum.
Yes, your standards are quite high. The ZS100 is definitely not a professional camera. My friend's 42 MP Sony A7R II system would meet your standards; of course he has about $10K invested in the body and lenses.

--
Phil
My $400 Nikon does fine. When I saw the Leica moniker on my ZS100 I thought it would compete with a DSLR kit lens. Was that too much to expect? Apparently. Anyway, no need to keep this going.

--
“The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.” Dorothea Lange
It would be interesting after all this chat, to see some comparisons.







--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]
 
I do magazine photography, involving landscape and nature. If sharpness falls off away from the center of the composition to the degree of my ZS100 landscape output, those images are going to be passed up for others that show more uniform sharpness from edge to edge. People getting published in the magazine market use cameras in a different league than my ZS100 for landscape and nature submissions. I suppose my standards are quite high, but I can't rely on the ZS100 to compete at that level of work. Therefore for me, it is mediocre for landscape. I understand that other opinions differ on this forum.
Yes, your standards are quite high. The ZS100 is definitely not a professional camera. My friend's 42 MP Sony A7R II system would meet your standards; of course he has about $10K invested in the body and lenses.

--
Phil
My $400 Nikon does fine. When I saw the Leica moniker on my ZS100 I thought it would compete with a DSLR kit lens. Was that too much to expect? Apparently. Anyway, no need to keep this going.

--
“The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.” Dorothea Lange
It would be interesting after all this chat, to see some comparisons.



--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]
Here you go, for starters.

c45dbbb3ed714c8b87867992729dff60.jpg.png


Here's the lower left corner, same four cameras. Every camera but the ZS100 does quite well against the APS-C Nikon. If I'd have known what I know now six weeks ago, I'd have bought an LX10 for my compact camera.



dc300054e7124cff95eefbfc2856025c.jpg.png




--




“The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.” Dorothea Lange
 
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I do magazine photography, involving landscape and nature. If sharpness falls off away from the center of the composition to the degree of my ZS100 landscape output, those images are going to be passed up for others that show more uniform sharpness from edge to edge. People getting published in the magazine market use cameras in a different league than my ZS100 for landscape and nature submissions. I suppose my standards are quite high, but I can't rely on the ZS100 to compete at that level of work. Therefore for me, it is mediocre for landscape. I understand that other opinions differ on this forum.
Yes, your standards are quite high. The ZS100 is definitely not a professional camera. My friend's 42 MP Sony A7R II system would meet your standards; of course he has about $10K invested in the body and lenses.

--
Phil
My $400 Nikon does fine. When I saw the Leica moniker on my ZS100 I thought it would compete with a DSLR kit lens. Was that too much to expect? Apparently. Anyway, no need to keep this going.

--
“The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.” Dorothea Lange
It would be interesting after all this chat, to see some comparisons.



--
"Measure wealth not by things you have but by things for which you would not take money"
www.flickr.com/ohlsonmh/ [email protected]
Here you go, for starters.

c45dbbb3ed714c8b87867992729dff60.jpg.png


Here's the lower left corner, same four cameras. Every camera but the ZS100 does quite well against the APS-C Nikon. If I'd have known what I know now six weeks ago, I'd have bought an LX10 for my compact camera.

dc300054e7124cff95eefbfc2856025c.jpg.png


--

“The camera is an instrument that teaches people how to see without a camera.” Dorothea Lange
Lightpath

With the greatest of respect, The images that DPR used for this comparison are not representative of the TZ/ZS 100. They either had a badly defective copy or they made a mess of it somewhere down the line. I don't have a DSLR, but I do have an MF43rds to post comparisons from. Watch this space. The TZ100 is better than the DPR Chart would portray
 

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