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Firmware update for A6300/A6500 available (2/1/2018)

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Bolshevik said:
Digital Nigel said:
Bolshevik said:
Digital Nigel said:
So what is it about this lens that requires new firmware in order to be able to do the usual lens geometry corrections?
Click to expand...
Nothing special. Every SONY (and not only SONY) lens need some correction. To make in-camera correction, camera have to know exact correction parameters. I guess, those parameter are adding for the new lens when you flash the camera with new firmware that "add support" for this lens. New firmware also contain information about the new lens identification number. So when camera reads new lens identification number it can use correction parameters for this lens.
Click to expand...
No, the lens profile is in the lens, not the camera firmware. The camera does the correcting, but using data supplied by the lens.
Click to expand...
If it were so, then I would be able to use in-camera correction for SELP16-50 with NEXF3 even before firmware upgrade. Because - with FW1.00 I had "correction" options in the menu, I was able to switch correction on and off - but it changed nothing. And only after cameras firmware upgrade to FW1.01 (which was said to add SEP16-50 support) correction began to work. Bet then it become "auto only". So I guess lens profile is in-camera, not in-lens.
Click to expand...
That lens seems to have been a special case. It must have introduced additional correction parameters that could only be understood by cameras with updated firmware. Other new lenses haven't needed updated firmware for in-camera corrections to work.
Bolshevik said:
Bolshevik said:
Bolshevik said:
Same thing does some programs like, for example, DxO Optics Pro, that contains "lens profiles" for supported lenses and can use them automatically when it find lens ID in EXIF.
Click to expand...
Yes, DxO Optics Pro and PhotoLab download DxO's own lens and camera modules. That's independent of any JPEG corrections done by the camera.
Bolshevik said:
I don't think that lens firmware contains correction parameters by itself - otherwise one would not need to upgrade also camera`s firmware to made in-camera correction - lens firmware contains only identification number.
Click to expand...
No, the lens contains the profile. I'm pretty sure this lens will be corrected even on older E-mount cameras that don't get new firmware.
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See above.
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Ditto
Bolshevik said:
Bolshevik said:
Bolshevik said:
But, some SONY lenses adds so heavy distortion/vignetting than SONY doesn't allow user to switch in-camera correction off for this lens at all - it`s always ON.

I think this will be the case with this new lens too, we will see.
Click to expand...
Yes, I think that's the real reason for this firmware update.
Bolshevik said:
If you are shoot RAW only - then you don't have to worry about it - likely they does not make in-camera distortion/vignetting correction in RAW anyway.
Click to expand...
Agreed. I won't consider buying this lens till DxO supports it for PhotoLab.
Bolshevik said:
(However I'm not quite sure - for example for NEX-7 they add some RAW correction too).
Click to expand...
I'm not aware of any lens corrections applied to NEX-7 RAW data?
Click to expand...
Nex-7 had a colorshift issue with some wide-angle lenses including SONY own SEL16F2.8 (greenish corners). After firmware update it was (more or less ;-) ) fixed - both in JPG and in RAW. At least for SEL16F2.8
Click to expand...
I can't remember that instance. I bought my NEX-7 in early 2012, and already had that lens (it came out as a NEX-5 kit lens), but I didn't use it much. I'd have to see if I still have any RAW images that I shot using that lens soon after buying the camera, before any firmware updates. I suspect not.
 
Digital Nigel said:
Bolshevik said:
Digital Nigel said:
Bolshevik said:
Digital Nigel said:
So what is it about this lens that requires new firmware in order to be able to do the usual lens geometry corrections?
Click to expand...
Nothing special. Every SONY (and not only SONY) lens need some correction. To make in-camera correction, camera have to know exact correction parameters. I guess, those parameter are adding for the new lens when you flash the camera with new firmware that "add support" for this lens. New firmware also contain information about the new lens identification number. So when camera reads new lens identification number it can use correction parameters for this lens.
Click to expand...
No, the lens profile is in the lens, not the camera firmware. The camera does the correcting, but using data supplied by the lens.
Click to expand...
If it were so, then I would be able to use in-camera correction for SELP16-50 with NEXF3 even before firmware upgrade. Because - with FW1.00 I had "correction" options in the menu, I was able to switch correction on and off - but it changed nothing. And only after cameras firmware upgrade to FW1.01 (which was said to add SEP16-50 support) correction began to work. Bet then it become "auto only". So I guess lens profile is in-camera, not in-lens.
Click to expand...
That lens seems to have been a special case. It must have introduced additional correction parameters that could only be understood by cameras with updated firmware. Other new lenses haven't needed updated firmware for in-camera corrections to work
Click to expand...
I don't think this lens is special case. For example, firmware v3.20 for A6000 (current) was introduced only to add SEL70-200GM support. Firmware v1.01 for NEX-5T (current) -to add support for SELP18-105 and some FF lenses etc.

So I still think - correction is added by camera firmware upgrade.

But, as I says before - I`m not SONY engineer, so I can only guess.
 
Bolshevik said:
Digital Nigel said:
Bolshevik said:
Digital Nigel said:
Bolshevik said:
Digital Nigel said:
So what is it about this lens that requires new firmware in order to be able to do the usual lens geometry corrections?
Click to expand...
Nothing special. Every SONY (and not only SONY) lens need some correction. To make in-camera correction, camera have to know exact correction parameters. I guess, those parameter are adding for the new lens when you flash the camera with new firmware that "add support" for this lens. New firmware also contain information about the new lens identification number. So when camera reads new lens identification number it can use correction parameters for this lens.
Click to expand...
No, the lens profile is in the lens, not the camera firmware. The camera does the correcting, but using data supplied by the lens.
Click to expand...
If it were so, then I would be able to use in-camera correction for SELP16-50 with NEXF3 even before firmware upgrade. Because - with FW1.00 I had "correction" options in the menu, I was able to switch correction on and off - but it changed nothing. And only after cameras firmware upgrade to FW1.01 (which was said to add SEP16-50 support) correction began to work. Bet then it become "auto only". So I guess lens profile is in-camera, not in-lens.
Click to expand...
That lens seems to have been a special case. It must have introduced additional correction parameters that could only be understood by cameras with updated firmware. Other new lenses haven't needed updated firmware for in-camera corrections to work
Click to expand...
I don't think this lens is special case. For example, firmware v3.20 for A6000 (current) was introduced only to add SEL70-200GM support. Firmware v1.01 for NEX-5T (current) -to add support for SELP18-105 and some FF lenses etc.

So I still think - correction is added by camera firmware upgrade.

But, as I says before - I`m not SONY engineer, so I can only guess.
Click to expand...
The new firmware added 'support' for the lens, but what does that actually mean? All it says is:

Improvements over version 3.10:
  • Provides new lens support (SEL70200GM)
  • Improves stability of operation when using telephoto lenses such as SEL70200GM and SEL20TC
If you look at the lens compatibility chart , the note says:

SEL70200GM
FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS
  • The Exif lens name does not include the letters "GM". If you update the camera system software to Version 3.10 or higher, “GM” will be included at the end of the name.
  • When a Teleconverter Lens (SEL14TC or SEL20TC) is attached, the focal length and maximum aperture for the Exif lens name will be listed using magnification values. If you update the camera system software to Version 3.10 or higher, the name of the lens itself will be listed along with the name of the Teleconverter.
  • It is available with the camera firmware Ver.3.20 or later.
Note that support seems to consist of producing the correct Exif info, which suggests that lens correction was already implemented, as I said earlier. I think that the highly distorting SELP1650 introduced additional lens correction data which older cameras weren't expecting; thereafter, all lenses have been corrected with no change to firmware, but not necessarily with the correct exif lens description, probably because these GM lenses have an extra field not present in older lenses.

If you look at the chart for the 2011 NEX-7, which has not had a firmware update since 2013, the note says:

SEL70200GM
FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS
  • When the Focus Mode switch is set to MF, it is not possible to tentatively resume AF mode by pressing the AF/MF button on, though the on-screen (LCD monitor /Viewfinder) focus mode switches to AF.
  • Optical SteadyShot setting on lens will switch on/off the function, but the setting is not reflected to on-screen display (LCD monitor / viewfinder) nor recorded in EXIF data.
  • Focus hold button of the lens does not work.
  • The Exif lens name does not include "GM."
  • When a Teleconverter Lens (SEL14TC or SEL20TC) is attached, the focal length and maximum aperture for the Exif lens name will be listed using magnification values.
So, although the lens isn't fully supported, lens correction isn't mentioned as not being available.
 
Last edited:
Digital Nigel said:
Digital Nigel said:
I don't think this lens is special case. For example, firmware v3.20 for A6000 (current) was introduced only to add SEL70-200GM support. Firmware v1.01 for NEX-5T (current) -to add support for SELP18-105 and some FF lenses etc.

So I still think - correction is added by camera firmware upgrade.

But, as I says before - I`m not SONY engineer, so I can only guess.
Click to expand...
The new firmware added 'support' for the lens, but what does that actually mean? All it says is:

Improvements over version 3.10:
  • Provides new lens support (SEL70200GM)
  • Improves stability of operation when using telephoto lenses such as SEL70200GM and SEL20TC
If you look at the lens compatibility chart , the note says:

SEL70200GM
FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS
  • The Exif lens name does not include the letters "GM". If you update the camera system software to Version 3.10 or higher, “GM” will be included at the end of the name.
  • When a Teleconverter Lens (SEL14TC or SEL20TC) is attached, the focal length and maximum aperture for the Exif lens name will be listed using magnification values. If you update the camera system software to Version 3.10 or higher, the name of the lens itself will be listed along with the name of the Teleconverter.
  • It is available with the camera firmware Ver.3.20 or later.
Note that support seems to consist of producing the correct Exif info, which suggests that lens correction was already implemented, as I said earlier. I think that the highly distorting SELP1650 introduced additional lens correction data which older cameras weren't expecting; thereafter, all lenses have been corrected with no change to firmware, but not necessarily with the correct exif lens description, probably because these GM lenses have an extra field not present in older lenses.
Click to expand...
Sorry - not so. You see, that EXIF correction was introduced in FW 3.10 already, and FW 3.20 continues this. But "support", whatever this mean, is introduced only in FW 3.20. So it is some different things. Sorry, I have not this lens, so cannot check if "support" means lens correction or something else. But I bet - it`s all about correction, both with tele convertors and without.
 
Bolshevik said:
Digital Nigel said:
Bolshevik said:
I don't think this lens is special case. For example, firmware v3.20 for A6000 (current) was introduced only to add SEL70-200GM support. Firmware v1.01 for NEX-5T (current) -to add support for SELP18-105 and some FF lenses etc.

So I still think - correction is added by camera firmware upgrade.

But, as I says before - I`m not SONY engineer, so I can only guess.
Click to expand...
The new firmware added 'support' for the lens, but what does that actually mean? All it says is:

Improvements over version 3.10:
  • Provides new lens support (SEL70200GM)
  • Improves stability of operation when using telephoto lenses such as SEL70200GM and SEL20TC
If you look at the lens compatibility chart , the note says:

SEL70200GM
FE 70-200mm F2.8 GM OSS
  • The Exif lens name does not include the letters "GM". If you update the camera system software to Version 3.10 or higher, “GM” will be included at the end of the name.
  • When a Teleconverter Lens (SEL14TC or SEL20TC) is attached, the focal length and maximum aperture for the Exif lens name will be listed using magnification values. If you update the camera system software to Version 3.10 or higher, the name of the lens itself will be listed along with the name of the Teleconverter.
  • It is available with the camera firmware Ver.3.20 or later.
Note that support seems to consist of producing the correct Exif info, which suggests that lens correction was already implemented, as I said earlier. I think that the highly distorting SELP1650 introduced additional lens correction data which older cameras weren't expecting; thereafter, all lenses have been corrected with no change to firmware, but not necessarily with the correct exif lens description, probably because these GM lenses have an extra field not present in older lenses.
Click to expand...
Sorry - not so. You see, that EXIF correction was introduced in FW 3.10 already, and FW 3.20 continues this. But "support", whatever this mean, is introduced only in FW 3.20. So it is some different things. Sorry, I have not this lens, so cannot check if "support" means lens correction or something else. But I bet - it`s all about correction, both with tele convertors and without.
Click to expand...
Look at what I showed for the NEX-7, whose firmware has definitely not been updated for this lens. It mentions a number of lens features that won't be fully supported, but lens correction is not among them.
 
If correction is not provided by the lens, how does my a6500 correct for the Sigma 16/1.4?
 
mcslsk said:
If correction is not provided by the lens, how does my a6500 correct for the Sigma 16/1.4?
Click to expand...
I guess it does it the same way as DxO Optics Pro does. I.e. if DxO can not find appropriate module for the lens (for example my old A-mount Tamron 18-250 have not one) it use the profile(s) for the lens(es) of the same type and allow me to choose (in my case I can choose between Sigma 18-200 or Tamron 28-200 modules for correction). This way correction still works - while not perfectly correctly :-)

Ditto for NEX-7 - I don't know how it correct SELP16-50 (or SELP18-105) but I doubt it does it as it should be.

Well, I`m afraid if we will continue this way, than mod can be angry (and for a reason!) so I will stop this discussion in this thread.

But if someone will tell me, what this " more stable camera " really means - I will be very grateful.

PS And - as always - excuse me my English - as you can see from my profile, this is not my native language :-|
 
Bolshevik said:
mcslsk said:
If correction is not provided by the lens, how does my a6500 correct for the Sigma 16/1.4?
Click to expand...
I guess it does it the same way as DxO Optics Pro does. I.e. if DxO can not find appropriate module for the lens (for example my old A-mount Tamron 18-250 have not one) it use the profile(s) for the lens(es) of the same type and allow me to choose (in my case I can choose between Sigma 18-200 or Tamron 28-200 modules for correction). This way correction still works - while not perfectly correctly :-)
Click to expand...
The camera doesn't do that, and doesn't need to, as it gets the correction data from the lens. But putting the full, correct lens name in the exif data helps programs like DxO pick the right lens module automatically, thus avoiding the problem with the multiple 18-200 lenses (Sony probably never expected there to be multiple 18-200 lenses one day when it brought out the original, big silver version). That's what one or more of the previous a6000 firmware fixes did.
Bolshevik said:
Ditto for NEX-7 - I don't know how it correct SELP16-50 (or SELP18-105) but I doubt it does it as it should be.
Click to expand...
The NEX-7 had a (apparently final) firmware upgrade for the SELP1650. That probably covered both the extreme lens correction needed (including making it mandatory) and support for the power zoom, the first on the E-mount. The latter update would have been relevant for all subsequent power zoom lenses.
Bolshevik said:
Well, I`m afraid if we will continue this way, than mod can be angry (and for a reason!) so I will stop this discussion in this thread.

But if someone will tell me, what this " more stable camera " really means - I will be very grateful.
Click to expand...
Presumably there were some circumstances that could cause the a6500 to freeze that are now handled gracefully.
Bolshevik said:
PS And - as always - excuse me my English - as you can see from my profile, this is not my native language :-|
Click to expand...
No problem, we can understand you clearly enough.
 
anyone has viewed some improvements versus previous firmware ?

I don't know where and if they exist, maybe in video, in AF-C, AF-A or in AF-S, or in low light High ISO, in battery life/drain, better LA-EA support in some way.

Is there any other improvements or is it just to have distortion/vignetting automatically correct with the new lens ?

Thanks in advance

mav_top
 
Last edited:
mavtop said:
anyone has viewed some improvements versus previous firmware ?

I don't know where and if they exist, maybe in video, in AF-C, AF-A or in AF-S, or in low light High ISO, in battery life/drain, better LA-EA support in some way.

Is there any other improvements or is it just to have distortion/vignetting automatically correct with the new lens ?

Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
No such improvements are claimed. And I think even the lens correction would happen automatically even without applying the new firmware. But with it, the lens correction will probably be mandatory, rather than optional. Sony seems to do that with lenses that have heavy distortion, and particularly, vignetting.
 
To: KevtheDoc: Suggest you read other threads on this firmware update. Macs running OS 10.13 require an additional download to enable the firmware update.
 
Last edited:
Roger N. said:
To: KevtheDoc: Suggest you read other threads on this firmware update. Macs running OS 10.13 require an additional download to enable the firmware update.
Click to expand...
Thats what I’m talking about.....the “additional download” doesn't work, thats why my response was written in reply to the post advising about the additional download.
 
Kev The Doc said:
Roger N. said:
To: KevtheDoc: Suggest you read other threads on this firmware update. Macs running OS 10.13 require an additional download to enable the firmware update.
Click to expand...
Thats what I’m talking about.....the “additional download” doesn't work, thats why my response was written in reply to the post advising about the additional download.
Click to expand...
Me too, I can't download the download.

JAW
 
Last edited:
I'm running MAC OS 10.13.3 (it's the most recent update). The updater won't update. I had the same problem a few months ago when I purchased the Sony 100-400 zoom which needed a camera update (a6500) to properly recognize the lens. I had to use my wife's computer running an older MAC OS which worked. Problem is she has updated her OS so I'm sort of screwed. I'm not planning on buying the 18-135 so I'll let it ride but it irks me. The updater on the Sony page is for MAC OS 10.13. Other than that, everything is fine.

JAW
 
Kev The Doc said:
Roger N. said:
To: KevtheDoc: Suggest you read other threads on this firmware update. Macs running OS 10.13 require an additional download to enable the firmware update.
Click to expand...
Thats what I’m talking about.....the “additional download” doesn't work, thats why my response was written in reply to the post advising about the additional download.
Click to expand...
Ah...now I'm with you. After seeing the additional step to address the 10.13 incompatibility (and wondering what ELSE it might do to the Mac OS), I eventually did the update on a Windows 10 PC, so I didn't actually use the downloader I was referring to.
 
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