tokumeino wrote:
GaryJP wrote:
IQ wise, my point is rather that there is no such thing as a bad camera now. When cameras are comparable, IQ differences are so tiny that I can barely see them, especially when printed. I can get that people like looking at their pictures at 200%. I actually can get any opinion and preference which is not mine. I'm pleased when people love a G1XIII or whatever. Even M43 which I used to quit and won't come back.
I agree with you on many of those things. My point was only that your original post came across as a bit unnecessarily hostile and we get more used to that level of hostility from the less considered photographers.
Actually, enough good people use Fujifilm that I won't knock the cameras unnecessarily, I just had a very souring experience with the Fuji X10 and its punch hole problems which Fuji absolutely flatly denied and lied about for over a year. And the fanboys were just as bad in terms of denial. Companies should realise that behaving unethically or lying casts a long shadow, and with the short shelf life of many cameras today a year of prevaricating seriously damages the worth of that camera. I also find many raw converters don't handle their raw files well, if at all.
That said, they can have good colours and good lenses. Especially for people who like OOC jpegs.
Maybe you should tell us we're not seeing what we're seeing in the pictures themselves.
The fact is that Adobe tends to apply a certain amount of noise reduction without letting you know and without asking you. It does this in both Photoshop and Lightroom. Not every user is aware, and I've been tripped up by this myself. I haven't recently checked whether my Capture One is doing the same thing.
Clearly the PHOTOGRAPHER has applied no noise reduction because those figures are within the software's normal range of reduction. So the question that some might ask is why you are so quick and willing to cast aspersions on their character or honesty. Pointing out what you've spotted is helpful. Trashing other people is not.
If I've been rude against the OP, I'm sorry. It was not my point.
Actually, what irritates me most is the number of "great review" comments over there and the lack of balance of many.
I really wish most of the critics would get the camera in their hand and use it. Really. No animus against those who haven't, but in terms of simple pleasure in using it's one of the best compacts I've used in a variety of brands and many of us DO feel that DPR's review was one of its least balanced. Their soft lens comment was frankly bordering on insanity. That's why you are seeing some of the pushback. With so many of the people critiquing here, I 'd really like us both to be able to go out shooting together for a day, both using it. And their points of comparison seem, to me, ill judged too.
My main complaints are the lack of 4K (minor because I have other 4K cameras) and the price (I think Canon could and should have sold it for US$1,000 as they do in my market.)
How can people endlessly debate about microscopic IQ differences and find them relevant, arguing about comparative noise between Sony and Canon watching the DPR scene, while not noticing immediately that there is something obviously wrong with this "no NR" statement.
Well, this is inevitably a gear head forum (how many pixels dance on the head of a pin?) and I've previously compared it with those hi-fi fanatics who believe you need gold wires for good sound (despite the fact NONE have ever actually identified them in "blind" tests. If you want to focus on photos I recommend photo.net. In terms of the haters, what can I say? I remember dealing with one once by cheating the EXIF files on his favourite camera and mine with two side-by-side shots and - EXACTLY as expected - he ended up trashing every aspect of his favourite camera in detail because he thought it was the one he hated.
And they write "great review". I find that properly astounding, and illustrative of how people are biased : they endlessly talk about tiny pixel level things but don't even recognize the obvious. And it's not only one person...
So I've been very irritated and overreacted to the OP (which after all was probably not the worst over here). Sorry again.
But really, there is a problem on this particular forum.
Hmm. I've been here over a decade. What I've seen is that one of the biggest problems on the Canon forums is that in the past some moderators have themselves not been Canon enthusiasts and accordingly far more leeway has been given to bashers than on other forums. There's one Nikon fanboy who has actually spent a decade doing nothing but bashing Canon on the full frame forum. I go away for months and I come back and he's still at it. He posts there more than on the forum of the camera he actually allegedly LIKES.
The moderating has improved on this forum a lot lately, and I must give them credit.
But it's still the case to me that while I can understand the (sometimes nuanced) psychology of people who have a camera and like it, it is much harder to understand that of people who don't have it, don't want, don't even like the brand, and still think they should give the benefit of their "wisdom" to those who do
PS : I forgot to speak bad on Nikon in this post. Does it mean that I'm a Nikon fanboy, and that I have a Nikon agenda ? Who knows...
I've never spoken badly of Nikon, except to note that they seem very mean about repairing grey market cameras or equipment bought abroad. But then I've never used them. And that's why I don't bother to speak ill of them. I have used Sony and don't get on well with them, but spend remarkably little time complaining about cameras I no longer use.
In the end the world is probably made better more by positivity about what you like than negativity.
