C1 Pro 11 skin tones

xPhoenix · Dec 2, 2017

Once again, I'm trying out C1, but in general, things appear too red compared to what I'm used to in LR. I see this in many shots, but it's pretty apparent with skin tones. Here are some RAW samples from the D850 gallery here on DPR. I downloaded the image and imported into the software. No adjustments made except for setting the camera calibration profile to neutral in LR. C1 is using the 'auto" curve, which is film standard.

Changing 'film standard' to 'film extra shadow' helps a bit. Honestly, I'm not sure how anyone thinks that standard curve looks good, but I guess it depends on your tastes.

LR camera neutral

C1 standard

C1 extra shadow

deednets · Dec 3, 2017

xPhoenix said:
Once again, I'm trying out C1, but in general, things appear too red compared to what I'm used to in LR. I see this in many shots, but it's pretty apparent with skin tones. Here are some RAW samples from the D850 gallery here on DPR. I downloaded the image and imported into the software. No adjustments made except for setting the camera calibration profile to neutral in LR. C1 is using the 'auto" curve, which is film standard.

Changing 'film standard' to 'film extra shadow' helps a bit. Honestly, I'm not sure how anyone thinks that standard curve looks good, but I guess it depends on your tastes.

LR camera neutral

C1 standard

C1 extra shadow

Is this a good example to check skin tones?? On my (calbrated) screen the image looks too dark.

Wanna provide the RAW so people can check this out for themselves?

Deed

martincan · Dec 3, 2017

deednets said:
Wanna provide the RAW so people can check this out for themselves?

As xPhoenix said the raw was in the samples in the review of the D850. If you need it the download is

Loading…

s3.amazonaws.com

Personally I find the Lr Camera Neutral profile quite unpleasant. Camera Standard looks a little closer to what the D850 samples provided as JPEG if you bump the exposure quite a bit - not that the samples are 'correct'!

irv00 · Dec 3, 2017

xPhoenix said:
Once again, I'm trying out C1, but in general, things appear too red compared to what I'm used to in LR. I see this in many shots, but it's pretty apparent with skin tones. Here are some RAW samples from the D850 gallery here on DPR. I downloaded the image and imported into the software. No adjustments made except for setting the camera calibration profile to neutral in LR. C1 is using the 'auto" curve, which is film standard.

Changing 'film standard' to 'film extra shadow' helps a bit. Honestly, I'm not sure how anyone thinks that standard curve looks good, but I guess it depends on your tastes.

There is a significant difference in brightness between the samples. If that does not make things clear for you, get a different type of picture - a pattern will begin to emerge after a while: Capture One delivers more vibrant (not less accurate) color by default.

irv00 · Dec 3, 2017

irv00 said:
xPhoenix said:

Once again, I'm trying out C1, but in general, things appear too red compared to what I'm used to in LR. I see this in many shots, but it's pretty apparent with skin tones. Here are some RAW samples from the D850 gallery here on DPR. I downloaded the image and imported into the software. No adjustments made except for setting the camera calibration profile to neutral in LR. C1 is using the 'auto" curve, which is film standard.

Changing 'film standard' to 'film extra shadow' helps a bit. Honestly, I'm not sure how anyone thinks that standard curve looks good, but I guess it depends on your tastes.

Click to expand...

There is a significant difference in brightness between the samples. Make them even a compare again. If that does not make things clear for you, get a different type of picture - a pattern will begin to emerge after a while: Capture One delivers more vibrant (not less accurate) color by default.

sankos · Dec 3, 2017

There's bound to be a difference because of the different camera profiles (dcp vs icc) but also don't forget that white balance calculation is different in both programs. Reduce the magenta tint in C1 to get somewhere closer to Lr.

--
Marcin

xPhoenix · Dec 3, 2017

Here's another example of color differences (sorry, crops aren't exactly the same). To me, there is a difference in reds for sure. The LR and NX-D versions (both using neutral profile) have orange-ish reds (notice the flowers). C1 looks redder. Also, the wooden door in the background looks more red-brown in the C1 version. In other shots, I see differences in yellows, too. LR and NX-D look a bit more yellow-ish.

I know this can all be adjusted, but if someone likes the colors of the Nikon jpegs, C1 seems to be farther off from that than LR.

C1

LR

NXD

xPhoenix · Dec 3, 2017

And one more....

Here, the color shift in the leaves is clear. Again, LR and NX appear to nearly match, while C1 doesn't. Which colors are actually "correct" is another question, or is there even such a thing. Maybe it's just preference.

LR

NX

C1

IanYorke · Dec 4, 2017

xPhoenix said:
Once again, I'm trying out C1, but in general, things appear too red compared to what I'm used to in LR.

anyone thinks that standard curve looks good, but I guess it depends on your tastes.

I think you have the answer in your question

Adobe is the standard image processing software. You use it all the time and are used to what it shows. Web sites use it when they test equipment and so again you are used to what it looks like. Therefore anything "different" will look different / wrong.

Phaseone explicitly state that they aim for "pleasing" colours when designing their software , rather than spectrophotometric correct colours.

Again you are correct in that colour is a personal preference. This video gives you some idea about the power of C1 in adjusting skin tone which might be of interest:

Ian

xPhoenix · Dec 4, 2017

OK, last comparison, before I drive myself crazy. I processed each of these LR and C1 until I thought they looked pretty good. The main difference I see is redder tones in C1 and yellower tones in LR. With enough work, I'm sure the LR shot could be made to look like C1, and vice versa.

C1

LR

Photographic Memory · Dec 4, 2017

xPhoenix said:
No adjustments made except for setting the camera calibration profile to neutral in LR. C1 is using the 'auto" curve, which is film standard.

Changing 'film standard' to 'film extra shadow' helps a bit. Honestly, I'm not sure how anyone thinks that standard curve looks good, but I guess it depends on your tastes.

LR camera neutral

C1 standard

C1 extra shadow

Wait, why set the Camera Calibration to Neutral. Actually scratch that, are you not setting the actual ICC Profile for the D850? Right above the Curve setting. It is a photo taken with the D850 so right there above the Curve setting is the ICC Profile for each Make and Model of Camera supported.

Mine defaults to Nikon D3300 Generic but I have sampled the other available cameras and they all SUBTLY change Color Rendition.

Heck, for a rise photo I took I chose a random Sony profile for a camera I know nothing about because I liked the way it enhanced that particular image to my preference at the time.

If you are using the generic D850 then you didn't mention it that I could gather and even if you did this is what the thread should be focus on considering your topic is regarding Color Rendition for particular Cameras in various Software.

--
Actual Reality > Virtual Reality
- I admire The Creator's creation, not so much (hu)man-made disposables.
That's probably why I am more interested in decent end-result Photography over the technology that was used to produce it.
DSLR > 'Mirrorless'
- Mirrorless? You mean Optical Viewfinder-less. An EVF is like having a VR headset on instead of using your own eyes to view what is.
For those with eyes…
Actual Reality > Virtual Reality

xPhoenix · Dec 4, 2017

Yeah, in C1 I was using the D850 profile, but within that, there is 'film standard' and 'film extra shadow.' It is nice they offer other profiles to experiment with, but I wish they took Adobe's approach, where they offer their own profile, and also the manufacturer's profiles as well. Technically, Adobe does not have Nikon's proprietary profiles, but they are pretty good reverse-engineered versions.

Photographic Memory · Dec 4, 2017

xPhoenix said:
Yeah, in C1 I was using the D850 profile, but within that, there is 'film standard' and 'film extra shadow.' It is nice they offer other profiles to experiment with, but I wish they took Adobe's approach, where they offer their own profile, and also the manufacturer's profiles as well. Technically, Adobe does not have Nikon's proprietary profiles, but they are pretty good reverse-engineered versions.

I hear ya

deednets · Dec 4, 2017

Photographic Memory said:
xPhoenix said:

Yeah, in C1 I was using the D850 profile, but within that, there is 'film standard' and 'film extra shadow.' It is nice they offer other profiles to experiment with, but I wish they took Adobe's approach, where they offer their own profile, and also the manufacturer's profiles as well. Technically, Adobe does not have Nikon's proprietary profiles, but they are pretty good reverse-engineered versions.

Click to expand...

I hear ya

--
Actual Reality > Virtual Reality
- I admire The Creator's creation, not so much (hu)man-made disposables.
That's probably why I am more interested in decent end-result Photography over the technology that was used to produce it.
DSLR > 'Mirrorless'
- Mirrorless? You mean Optical Viewfinder-less. An EVF is like having a VR headset on instead of using your own eyes to view what is.
For those with eyes…
Actual Reality > Virtual Reality

Whenever I do a blind test I always seem to prefer the C1 image. Even when there are no skin tones in it like the image with the autumn leaf.

The samples possibly not the best in terms of WB.

Here is one with the WB set manually in C1 (picking the grey t-shirt):

Deed

Hosko · Dec 5, 2017

I prefer phase one approach of getting several cameras of a model and take a heap of photos under different lighting conditions and come up with a profile that looks the best

IanYorke · Dec 5, 2017

xPhoenix said:
Yeah, in C1 I was using the D850 profile, but within that, there is 'film standard' and 'film extra shadow.' It is nice they offer other profiles to experiment with, but I wish they took Adobe's approach, where they offer their own profile, and also the manufacturer's profiles as well. Technically, Adobe does not have Nikon's proprietary profiles, but they are pretty good reverse-engineered versions.

Have you tried the Linear and Portrait profiles?

The linear curve is desaturated and should give you the look you are after.

Ian

xPhoenix · Dec 5, 2017

Not sure what is up with the DPR raw samples, but I noticed that many of them are underexposed by a stop or more. Also, like you said, the WB seems off on some. Maybe they were shooting AWB.

xPhoenix · Dec 5, 2017

IanYorke said:
xPhoenix said:

Yeah, in C1 I was using the D850 profile, but within that, there is 'film standard' and 'film extra shadow.' It is nice they offer other profiles to experiment with, but I wish they took Adobe's approach, where they offer their own profile, and also the manufacturer's profiles as well. Technically, Adobe does not have Nikon's proprietary profiles, but they are pretty good reverse-engineered versions.

Click to expand...

Have you tried the Linear and Portrait profiles?

The linear curve is desaturated and should give you the look you are after.

Ian

I'm not sure there's a portrait profile for my D750 in there, but I'll check. I did look at linear, but it's way underexposed and flat. It would take a ton of tweaking just to get a usable image.

sebbe · Dec 5, 2017

Without a proper white balance no comparison is possible. Therefore take a shot with a gray card or at least an obviously white/gray non reflective surface.

Both program can use customized profiles. If you have issues with tones, just profile your favorit software to your needs.

IanYorke · Dec 5, 2017

xPhoenix said:
I'm not sure there's a portrait profile for my D750 in there, but I'll check. I did look at linear, but it's way underexposed and flat. It would take a ton of tweaking just to get a usable image.

Yes the linear conversion looks like Adobe standard on steroids - flat and desaturated.

As for correcting the image, this is one of C1's main advantages for me, the speed in which you can get the results you want.

Simply click the "A" on the levels tool to do an auto levels and you are good to go. You need to make sure the levels preferences are set to linked RGB rather than individual colour channels. Separate channels are useful in certain circumstances to remove a colour cast. Screenshot below shows the result of 1 click adjustment. Unfortunately LR does not have all the tools one would like.

Ian

C1 Pro 11 skin tones

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