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Sony a7riii eats stars

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cantor

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In 'light' of Jim Kassons' star eater experiments, which I find completely convincing, I thought it appropriate to start this thread which has a more appropriate title.

See

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blog.kasson.com
 
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Because we need ANOTHER star eater thread..
 
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MikeRan said:
Because we need ANOTHER star eater thread..
Click to expand...
During the latest round of beatings, the horse appeared to twitch. It may not be dead yet. We must redouble our efforts.
 
Chris Crevasse said:
MikeRan said:
Because we need ANOTHER star eater thread..
Click to expand...
During the latest round of beatings, the horse appeared to twitch. It may not be dead yet. We must redouble our efforts.
Click to expand...


beatingadeadhorse1xw.gif




--
No matter where you go, there you are -Buckaroo Banzai
 
Chris Crevasse said:
MikeRan said:
Because we need ANOTHER star eater thread..
Click to expand...
During the latest round of beatings, the horse appeared to twitch. It may not be dead yet. We must redouble our efforts.
Click to expand...
If by "twitch" you mean leapt up, raced around the sky and gobbled a few thousand more stars, then yes, I guess it "twitched". ; )
 
SilvanBromide said:
Chris Crevasse said:
MikeRan said:
Because we need ANOTHER star eater thread..
Click to expand...
During the latest round of beatings, the horse appeared to twitch. It may not be dead yet. We must redouble our efforts.
Click to expand...
If by "twitch" you mean leapt up, raced around the sky and gobbled a few thousand more stars, then yes, I guess it "twitched". ; )

--
Former Canon, Nikon and Pentax user.
Online Gallery: https://500px.com/raycologon
Click to expand...


giphy.gif




--
No matter where you go, there you are -Buckaroo Banzai
 
FunkySpoo said:
SilvanBromide said:
Chris Crevasse said:
MikeRan said:
Because we need ANOTHER star eater thread..
Click to expand...
During the latest round of beatings, the horse appeared to twitch. It may not be dead yet. We must redouble our efforts.
Click to expand...
If by "twitch" you mean leapt up, raced around the sky and gobbled a few thousand more stars, then yes, I guess it "twitched". ; )

--
Former Canon, Nikon and Pentax user.
Online Gallery: https://500px.com/raycologon
Click to expand...
giphy.gif


--
No matter where you go, there you are -Buckaroo Banzai
https://www.flickr.com/photos/139525255@N08/
Click to expand...
Is this a close up image of a single Sony pixel???
 
If single pixel stars are being eating is this as big a probably as it's being made out to be? I'm pretty sure all other camera manufacturers are doing this. It's just a matter of what level and to what degree they are.
 
npires said:
If single pixel stars are being eating is this as big a probably as it's being made out to be? I'm pretty sure all other camera manufacturers are doing this. It's just a matter of what level and to what degree they are.
Click to expand...
To the astrophotographers affected this is a big problem (in my case I use Canon cameras for astrophotography - the Sony cameras do not at all fullfill my needs in this case). That said my everything-else cameras have all Sony logos...

So yes.

To the rest of users the star eater is seen as a non issue (but all would benefit if Sony could fix this issue).

And no.
 
Trollmannx said:
npires said:
If single pixel stars are being eating is this as big a probably as it's being made out to be? I'm pretty sure all other camera manufacturers are doing this. It's just a matter of what level and to what degree they are.
Click to expand...
To the astrophotographers affected this is a big problem (in my case I use Canon cameras for astrophotography - the Sony cameras do not at all fullfill my needs in this case). That said my everything-else cameras have all Sony logos...

So yes.

To the rest of users the star eater is seen as a non issue (but all would benefit if Sony could fix this issue).

And no.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying it's a non issue but if we are talking about a single pixel being removed when its isolated by itself not stars that take up two or more then is it as bad as some are making out?
 
Last edited:
npires said:
Trollmannx said:
npires said:
If single pixel stars are being eating is this as big a probably as it's being made out to be? I'm pretty sure all other camera manufacturers are doing this. It's just a matter of what level and to what degree they are.
Click to expand...
To the astrophotographers affected this is a big problem (in my case I use Canon cameras for astrophotography - the Sony cameras do not at all fullfill my needs in this case). That said my everything-else cameras have all Sony logos...

So yes.

To the rest of users the star eater is seen as a non issue (but all would benefit if Sony could fix this issue).

And no.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying it's a non issue but if we are talking about a single pixel being removed when its isolated by itself not stars that take up two or more then is it as bad as some are making out?
Click to expand...
It affects some camera models and situations more than others. Other manufacturers may well do something similar but theirs is not destructive and as poorly implemented as Sony's.

Spend $5000 on a camera and you are not getting an all round best in class or inferior than others in some way?

It doesn't give you a nice fuzzy warm feeling of I want to buy one.

It has to be hurting their sales to some degree. Its at least an objection to buying one.

The astro market has skyrocketed in the last 5 years now that cameras have evolved to the point where they can make decent noise free night sky shots. Every 2nd ad on TV seems to have a Milky Way shot and shows like Survivor can't go one episode without a Milky Way time lapse scene.

Greg.
 
I don't have an A7RIII and I've done no testing. However, even Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles can see it eats starts...
 
TLopez said:
I don't have an A7RIII and I've done no testing. However, even Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles can see it eats starts...
Click to expand...
Wake me up if it starts eating finishes as well !! : D
 
npires said:
Trollmannx said:
npires said:
If single pixel stars are being eating is this as big a probably as it's being made out to be? I'm pretty sure all other camera manufacturers are doing this. It's just a matter of what level and to what degree they are.
Click to expand...
To the astrophotographers affected this is a big problem (in my case I use Canon cameras for astrophotography - the Sony cameras do not at all fullfill my needs in this case). That said my everything-else cameras have all Sony logos...

So yes.

To the rest of users the star eater is seen as a non issue (but all would benefit if Sony could fix this issue).

And no.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying it's a non issue but if we are talking about a single pixel being removed when its isolated by itself not stars that take up two or more then is it as bad as some are making out?
Click to expand...
The algorithm also has a habit of punching out the peaks of stars that extend beyond a single pixel. If you have accurate tracking (in the sub-arcsecond range) and good optics roughly 80% of the intensity of a star is concentrated into the central peak. Things rarely work out that well in practice, but it seems that the algorithm still picks up that concentration and punches the centres out of stars. Tests on Cloudynights show it extends to the rest of the image as well, but having a bunch of doughnuts floating around on a black background is a pretty quick tip-off.

Stacking can help with this, but the only 'solution' I have found with my A7R so far is to grossly oversample the image to spread even the peak out over a few pixels. I'm lucky to have access to a 3250mm fl telescope, but not everyone has that option. As a consequence the a7r sits on the shelf for astro while my 6D hangs off the scope.

Cheers,

Dan
 
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AstroDan said:
npires said:
Trollmannx said:
npires said:
If single pixel stars are being eating is this as big a probably as it's being made out to be? I'm pretty sure all other camera manufacturers are doing this. It's just a matter of what level and to what degree they are.
Click to expand...
To the astrophotographers affected this is a big problem (in my case I use Canon cameras for astrophotography - the Sony cameras do not at all fullfill my needs in this case). That said my everything-else cameras have all Sony logos...

So yes.

To the rest of users the star eater is seen as a non issue (but all would benefit if Sony could fix this issue).

And no.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying it's a non issue but if we are talking about a single pixel being removed when its isolated by itself not stars that take up two or more then is it as bad as some are making out?
Click to expand...
The algorithm also has a habit of punching out the peaks of stars that extend beyond a single pixel. If you have accurate tracking (in the sub-arcsecond range) and good optics roughly 80% of the intensity of a star is concentrated into the central peak. Things rarely work out that well in practice, but it seems that the algorithm still picks up that concentration and punches the centres out of stars. Tests on Cloudynights show it extends to the rest of the image as well, but having a bunch of doughnuts floating around on a black background is a pretty quick tip-off.

Stacking can help with this, but the only 'solution' I have found with my A7R so far is to grossly oversample the image to spread even the peak out over a few pixels. I'm lucky to have access to a 3250mm fl telescope, but not everyone has that option. As a consequence the a7r sits on the shelf for astro while my 6D hangs off the scope.

Cheers,

Dan
Click to expand...
Nice this was the explanation I needed to read. It's one thing to say it's eating stars but not knowing how it's affecting images doesn't really mean much to people unaffected.

Visually would be good to see an example too.
 
Just don’t read it?
 
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