Upgrade from 450D to 77D or m4/3

damcify wrote:

Reading between the lines I understand we are probably talking about different image qualities. I am coming from desperately shooting at 800 ISO with the 55-250 4.0/5.6 IS and hoping to get some entertaining material. I don't mind some noise and this can often be improved in post processing. So I am coming from quiet a dark place (literally)

Probably. But still, if indeed you want to shoot at iso 800, then the more reason to go for fast lenses to keep the shutter speed high. More so in sports. If we are talking of static subjects, then maybe the 55-250  with IS, even at 1/15 or so will do. but when the subject is moving, then only faster lenses will do, especially if you don't want to move up from iso 800.

Shooting with the 50mm 1.8 makes almost acceptable images indoors, which is why I hope the 77D with its 24MP and higher ISO will make a good crop panel image. And then still a little hope that the 55-250 will also be usable in some situations indoors.

yes, that 24mp vs your old 18mp (?), will afford you some cropping room and still maintain some decent pixels remaining. The 55-250 is slow at f5.6 so, you may have to move to iso 1600 to 3200. What you may not know, having been stuck to the 450d (as I was in the 400d), is that today's sensors are very much usable at iso 1600 and 3200. If you think iso 800 is your upper boundary, move that a couple of notches. Iso 3200 is much usable. In fact, you might even find iso 6400 acceptable! So, if you are bent on using slow lenses, don't be afraid to go crank up the iso to 3200 at least.

I can see if I can dig up some examples. Fast glass would be great - the 85mm is very tempting as a good step up on a budget for sports photography.

I just got a used 85mm f1.8 usm last week. You need not go to this asap. Go for the 50 f1.8 stm first. That might work already for you. If you really need more reach, then add that 85mm f1.8! At least you scale up as needed.

Back to the G80/85 again. I did try the viewfinder but it felt awkward.... then trying the 77D it felt great I am trying so hard to like smaller cameras too like the m5 or A6300 but they are just not so ergonomic I feel - have become comfortable with "truck size" Also the text is really small on the LCD (yes, well over 40!) I now have to consider such aspects too .

Well, at least you know you are being budged to the canon. Again, nothing wrong with either one as long as you know what you are trading in terms of features or convenience.

The 800d/77d is not truck-sized. The 80d or xxD family is. And the 5d is even bigger!

Going back to the 800d/77d, for me, and this is only me, the only serious weakness of these 2 canon models (or any canon models for that matter) is the lack of a proper 4k video. That may not mean a lot to you, but to me, it matters much as we do video a lot. But since this is not an issue with you, then your only other study will be if you will get the 800d or the 77d.  They are basically the same 98%. The difference is that the 77d has a top panel, a round dial for adjustment at the back, an AF-On button, intervalometer, and OVF auto shutoff of LCD sensor,  and maybe some other things. Your call!

Again, thanks for your time !