Reading mode: Light Dark

flash underexposure in auto

Go to last post
B

bartP

Senior Member
Messages
2,334
Reaction score
0
Location
US
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:

If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)

I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new primes act the same in this situation.

Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
 
Use of TTL flash on the D100 does indeed result in "conservative" exposures, and I do regularly dial in an extra +0,5 exposure compensation.

But you say it's "heavily" underexposed, and that's not my experience. Mayby I sound stupid, but do check if you have by accident set a negative flash exposure compensation. Also remember that you should not set flash exposure compensation on both camera and flash, since they are additive. With D-TTL unpredicable results are seen, because the camera seeks to counteract the exposure compensation on the flash. Go out of matrix D-TTL mode and use TLL mode. You may still thinkt the pictures are underexposed, but you will be able to deal with it through exposure compensation.
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for your reply, Leif. Both compensations were set at 0.0.

In M: perfect exposure, in auto about three stops down. I was using the onboard TTL flash.
Guess mine is broken then, but it's a strange thing.

Bart
Leif Olstrup said:
But you say it's "heavily" underexposed, and that's not my
experience. Mayby I sound stupid, but do check if you have by
accident set a negative flash exposure compensation. Also remember
that you should not set flash exposure compensation on both camera
and flash, since they are additive. With D-TTL unpredicable results
are seen, because the camera seeks to counteract the exposure
compensation on the flash. Go out of matrix D-TTL mode and use TLL
mode. You may still thinkt the pictures are underexposed, but you
will be able to deal with it through exposure compensation.
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
In my first answer I assumed you used an external flash. Reading that you used the built in flash, I would have said that the underexposure is due to the limited power of the built in flash (the subject is out of reach), but it is puzzling that the exposure is OK with M setting. Strange indeed.
bartP said:
Bart
Leif Olstrup said:
But you say it's "heavily" underexposed, and that's not my
experience. Mayby I sound stupid, but do check if you have by
accident set a negative flash exposure compensation. Also remember
that you should not set flash exposure compensation on both camera
and flash, since they are additive. With D-TTL unpredicable results
are seen, because the camera seeks to counteract the exposure
compensation on the flash. Go out of matrix D-TTL mode and use TLL
mode. You may still thinkt the pictures are underexposed, but you
will be able to deal with it through exposure compensation.
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Well, Leif,

The image on the Camera LCD and the histogram look pretty bad, but like your own experiences, the actual file comes out pretty OK if the midtones get tweaked a bit. So, maybe your and my camera are acting the same, but I may be too critical. But nevertheless it's quite strange that the auto exposure is say: 1/60 and F8 underexposes while Manual at the very smae settings does a perfect exposure.
Thanks.
Bart
Leif Olstrup said:
bartP said:
Bart
Leif Olstrup said:
But you say it's "heavily" underexposed, and that's not my
experience. Mayby I sound stupid, but do check if you have by
accident set a negative flash exposure compensation. Also remember
that you should not set flash exposure compensation on both camera
and flash, since they are additive. With D-TTL unpredicable results
are seen, because the camera seeks to counteract the exposure
compensation on the flash. Go out of matrix D-TTL mode and use TLL
mode. You may still thinkt the pictures are underexposed, but you
will be able to deal with it through exposure compensation.
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I have the same problem:

I think my flash is OK but when used in P, A or S, I have have to set an exposure compensation of +2.0 (for a subject at about 2 meters far from the camera).
I know, that is a lot but it is very similar to what you describe...

With my SB80-DX, the under-exposure issue is present but not so strong. I "only" have to compensate at +0.3 or +0.7.

Hope it helps !
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
Click to expand...
 
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
Click to expand...
Hi BartP:-

Have you tried changing the meter settings, you will see a big difference.

my $0.02 --
Herman
 
Yes, that helps!

Even with a pretty dark subject, the flash won't overexpose in auto, while Manual again leads to perfect exposures. I'm wondering, are we the only ones, or is everybody else not bnoticing this. Or, is this the infamous underexposure problem of the D100? It sounds like, since many are uploading custom curves to tweak the midtones

Bart
fredaow said:
With my SB80-DX, the under-exposure issue is present but not so
strong. I "only" have to compensate at +0.3 or +0.7.

Hope it helps !
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Perfect exposure in M,

Underexposure in auto. Auto apparently non functioning, so why use different settings?
Bart
Photoroot said:
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
Click to expand...
Hi BartP:-

Have you tried changing the meter settings, you will see a big
difference.

my $0.02 --
Herman
Click to expand...
 
Effectively, the results I get are better since I have uploaded a custom curve in my D100 (a few months ago, now). It eliminates the "gray layer" that is on every picture with factory settings. The colors are now more vivid.
Example before (look at the "grey layer" that you can feel on the picture:
http://www.pbase.com/image/5454500

Example after custom curve:
http://www.pbase.com/image/19740897

Another trick is to set the white balance to "cloudy" to get punchier colors.
bartP said:
Even with a pretty dark subject, the flash won't overexpose in
auto, while Manual again leads to perfect exposures. I'm wondering,
are we the only ones, or is everybody else not bnoticing this. Or,
is this the infamous underexposure problem of the D100? It sounds
like, since many are uploading custom curves to tweak the midtones

Bart
fredaow said:
With my SB80-DX, the under-exposure issue is present but not so
strong. I "only" have to compensate at +0.3 or +0.7.

Hope it helps !
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
I have no complaints about grey casts. In fact I like my images more desaturated. But thinking and reading about it now, I'm more and more convinced that most who are using custom curves must be shooting in auto and would be shocked if they were to shoot in M. Suddenly one doesn't need a strong flash anymore ha ha .

Thanks, this has been most helpful
Bart
fredaow said:
Example after custom curve:
http://www.pbase.com/image/19740897

Another trick is to set the white balance to "cloudy" to get
punchier colors.
bartP said:
Even with a pretty dark subject, the flash won't overexpose in
auto, while Manual again leads to perfect exposures. I'm wondering,
are we the only ones, or is everybody else not bnoticing this. Or,
is this the infamous underexposure problem of the D100? It sounds
like, since many are uploading custom curves to tweak the midtones

Bart
fredaow said:
With my SB80-DX, the under-exposure issue is present but not so
strong. I "only" have to compensate at +0.3 or +0.7.

Hope it helps !
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
bartP said:
Photoroot said:
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
Click to expand...
Hi BartP:-

Have you tried changing the meter settings, you will see a big
difference.

my $0.02 --
Herman
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
--
Herman
 
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?
Click to expand...
Not at all. Before this thread gets any further out of control, two things:

1. Look at Step 4 on page 99 of your D100 manual. When you set Manual exposure mode, you selected Standard TTL, not Balanced Fill-Flash TTL. In other words, you changed how the flash operates. The operative word in the latter TTL type is "balanced." Since your ambient exposure is underexposed, so will be the flash; after all it is trying to BALANCE flash and ambient. If you don't understand why your ambient exposure is underexposed, please do a search on my name and flash. I'm sure I've explained it a few times ; ) If you can't find anything, let me know and I'll repost something.

2. Any one who tells me that they're dialing in +EV on their exposure or flash exposure compensation is almost immediately telling me that they don't understand something about the use of flash and the interaction of controls on the Nikon bodies. I'll repeat what I've said before: It is rare that I ever use a flash exposure compensation of anything other than in the -2 to -0.5EV range. Flash exposure compensations outside that range indicates to me that you're not understanding the interaction between the two exposures and are setting the camera wrong.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guides to the Nikon D100, D1, D1h, & D1x and Fujifilm S2
http://www.bythom.com
 
I had the same flash underexposure problem before. The simplest solution would be to switch the metering to "Spot" on the camera. This activates Standard TTL mode. Try it. It works for both the built-in and external flashes. Good luck!
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
Click to expand...
 
LeeD said:
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?

Thanks in advance.
Bart
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
Hi BartP:-

LeeD just answer your question to me earlier, I mostly shoot in A mode when using flash and adjust the metering for exposure.
--
Herman
 
That's exactly what I figured out yesterday rollerblading in the sun. It's funny when one is attending these forums for a while, the more you've participated, one tends to think that everyone has been reading everything. Me, being a "I'll find it out myself guy" in general never read the flash threads, so I missed that, never having problems with flash exposure either. Until recently I thought it was my old zoom, so I never bothered finding out why it underexposed. But it's a good tip to do a search for thom Hogan and ....
Thanks,
Bart
Thom Hogan said:
bartP said:
I hardly used my D100 in auto before, so I didn't notice this earlier:
If I use A, P or S auto flash exposure, the image is heavily
undnderexposed. In M everything is perfectly exposed.
(No problems in auto without flash.)
I first thought I had a problem with my older zoomlens, but my new
primes act the same in this situation.
Does anyone else encounter this? In one way the camera seems to
know how to do a perfect exposure, but on the other hand it misses
things in auto with flash. trange huh?
Click to expand...
Not at all. Before this thread gets any further out of control, two
things:

1. Look at Step 4 on page 99 of your D100 manual. When you set
Manual exposure mode, you selected Standard TTL, not Balanced
Fill-Flash TTL. In other words, you changed how the flash operates.
The operative word in the latter TTL type is "balanced." Since your
ambient exposure is underexposed, so will be the flash; after all
it is trying to BALANCE flash and ambient. If you don't understand
why your ambient exposure is underexposed, please do a search on my
name and flash. I'm sure I've explained it a few times ; ) If you
can't find anything, let me know and I'll repost something.

2. Any one who tells me that they're dialing in +EV on their
exposure or flash exposure compensation is almost immediately
telling me that they don't understand something about the use of
flash and the interaction of controls on the Nikon bodies. I'll
repeat what I've said before: It is rare that I ever use a flash
exposure compensation of anything other than in the -2 to -0.5EV
range. Flash exposure compensations outside that range indicates to
me that you're not understanding the interaction between the two
exposures and are setting the camera wrong.

--
Thom Hogan
author, Nikon Field Guide & Nikon Flash Guide
author, Complete Guides to the Nikon D100, D1, D1h, & D1x and
Fujifilm S2
http://www.bythom.com
Click to expand...
 
The spot meter tip also works, thanks.
I'm now convinced that my camera is compeletely working well, feels good.
Kind regards,
Bart
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Keyboard shortcuts

f
Forum
m
My threads
Mobile site
About
Editorial content
Cameras & Lenses
Community
All content, design, and layout are Copyright © 1998–2025 Digital Photography Review All Rights Reserved.
Reproduction in whole or part in any form or medium without specific written permission is prohibited.
When you use DPReview links to buy products, the site may earn a commission.
©GPS Media - Guides, Products, Services.
Back
Top