Are we kidding ourselves that we are better than we are?

Started Mar 24, 2017 | Discussions thread
nixda Veteran Member • Posts: 5,515
Re: Are we kidding ourselves that we are better than we are?

Shockwave wrote:

nixda wrote:

Shockwave wrote:

nixda wrote:

Shockwave wrote:.

True, but as an example, if someone says the D750's IQ is better than the XT2, the question I have is "so what", it's like saying your Lamborghini is faster than my Ferrari when we're both driving in a city where the speed limit is 60km/h and it makes no difference.

So, you're falling into the same trap after all that I thought you avoided in your OP.

No, the Ferrari won't get you from point A to point B in downtown Manhattan during rush hour any faster than that Lamborghini or my Subaru Outback. But downtown Manhattan isn't a stringent test for the capabilities of these cars. Take them out on a highway in Montana and set speed as your priority, and I'll stay behind with my Outback. But then let's go off-road into the mountains, and the sports cars will stay behind.

It is these differences in capabilities that provide justifications for getting one camera system over another, not the common areas.

when someone says the IQ is better at base ISO, can anyone show me a photo that IQ at base ISO was a limiting factor?

The D750 has about 1.5EV more dynamic range at base ISO compared to the X-T2. That is quite a difference and would be quite a good justification, wouldn't you agree?

Great, so dynamic range is better, my guess is the amount of cases where that extra 1.5 stops of dynamic range are almost negligible in real world terms. I'm looking for an example of where that 1.5EV saved the day. I looked through my D750 examples and I couldn't find photos where I needed the extra 1.5EV and this goes back to the original question, are we chasing and arguing about a unicorn that isn't required for most photographers? It's all fine and well to chase sharpness at 100% and 75 stops of dynamic range but are we arguing about something that doesn't impact the real world. This was why I used the sports car analogy, its all fine and well to argue who has the fastest sports car, but if there is no opportunity to take it faster than 60, it makes no difference, you are arguing about specs you will never use.

Well, if you don't think 1.5EV is a significant chunk, then I would indeed just say, stick to the X-T2; you'll be happy for the rest of your life.

So, you declare the X-T2 to be the end of the development of photographic consumer equipment. We should all rush out and get one then! I mean, who needs anything else?

The thing is, technology will progress as time goes on. High ISO performance will improve, DR will improve, but I think people overstate the values of these. I've seen countless people switch systems because of IQ, and yet, in two years, what is in the 1D will filter to the 5D, and what is in the 5D will filter to APSC. Are the people complaining pros who demand the absolute best for their clients? Almost never. So why is it required now? Today? Or tomorrow? If we spent as much time learning as we did complaining and comparing sensor outputs, we would probably be able to manage the difference through skill and yet, after complaining where are we? In exactly the same position with the same skills.

Some photographers shoot JPG and I get that, because ultimately the final JPG can be different between systems, but that is the minority. Some photographers need TTL strobes, and I get that, Fuji doesn't have support for HSS and TTL on strobes. But switching systems because of 1.5 stops of EV?

Perhaps not switching (between, you didn't say 'switching' originally), but making a decision for one system over another when they buy a new one. You would say, "why didn't you just get the X-T2, I'm sure you don't need these extra stops of DR." I would say, m if DR is of great importance, even a modest improvement (and 1.5EV isn't modest; it's a sizable improvement) would be welcome.

You wanted to see examples, and I said that I don't have any because I don't keep my non-keepers. But if you check my gallery, you will see what my prime subject is (landscape panoramas). And I can tell you that 10EV of DR isn't enough to nicely capture many of the shots I attempt to capture. Not even 11.5EV of DR. But one has to make compromises. I can't take that Lambo into the mountains like I can my Outback. Besides, I don't want to spend my money on that Lambo.

 nixda's gear list:nixda's gear list
Fujifilm X-E1 Fujifilm XF 14mm F2.8 R Fujifilm XF 18-55mm F2.8-4 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 55-200mm F3.5-4.8 R LM OIS Fujifilm XF 27mm F2.8 +1 more
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