Why can't Adobe and Nikon work to have LR/CC/PS process Nikon color profiles?

Started Oct 24, 2016 | Discussions thread
iainlea
OP iainlea Forum Member • Posts: 68
Re: Why can't Adobe and Nikon work to have LR/CC/PS process Nikon color profiles?

michaeladawson wrote:

photomy wrote:

Simon Garrett wrote:

photomy wrote:

Simon Garrett wrote:

I'd be surprised if that were true, but perhaps I've missed something.

The time taken to read Nikon metadata, along with the image data itself, is negligible. Adobe already reads some proprietary data (white balance). All software has to start with some initial settings; to start with settings derived from Nikon metadata would not take more than a few additional microseconds to read the metadata. Processing the image data to Nikon settings (rather than some other Adobe settings) is, I would have thought, unlikely to increase the time taken.

There would be additional programming time - to write the code to read the Nikon settings, to decide how to process them, and write code to do that. This would be a one-off.

However, for Adobe there could also be a saving in time. It might be that, with inside information from Nikon, they might not have to spend so much time creating camera profiles for each new Nikon camera but could create them automatically from Nikon information.

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Simon

"The time taken to read Nikon metadata, along with the image data itself, is negligible."

It is not the time it takes to read the metadata, it is the time it takes to actually use the information to process the image that can slow things down.

The raw processor has to use some starting point, either their own or Nikon's. Why would using Nikon's be any slower than any other? What extra processing is involved in using the Nikon information?

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Simon

I cannot answer for sure the why of this question. I assume that the processing of the data is less efficiently designed in some manner compared to Adobe products. It could be just certain algorithms such as noise reduction that are less efficient. Maybe a software engineer that is also a Nikon photographer on the side could answer this better.

The in-camera raw conversion (to create the viewable jpeg) and your computer software (ACR, LR, etc) start with the raw data. The camera applies the chosen in-camera picture control. Your computer applies your chosen Adobe default camera profile.

This is not exactly rocket science. All the Adobe software has to do is load the raw file and read what picture control was set at the time from the EXIF data. It's the same data that Nikon's own desktop software accesses. NXD knows what picture control was used and it applies that same picture control to the raw file in the computer. In addition, Adobe needs to read any user specific adjustments to the in-camera picture control (contrast, brightness, clarity, etc.). Sharpening is problematic. I really don't want the picture control sharpening setting to be applied at all. So Adobe would need an option to ignore sharpening settings.

Step two for Adobe is to have a matching set of camera profiles. They do. It is debatable how close a match they are for the Nikon picture controls, but that is a secondary point. The main point is that it would not be hard to do it.

The complicated part of all this is that Adobe would need to do this for all camera manufacturers. Well, they wouldn't HAVE to. But if the do it for Nikon they should do it for all the other major players as well. So now you have to have Camera Profiles that match all the in-camera profile settings for all companies.

In addition, camera manufacturers store this data in custom defined fields in the EXIF. So you would now need to be able to map all the custom manufacturer data fields in the EXIF data. Can Adobe do it? Certainly. Whether they want to or not is a different matter.

One can complain about Adobe not honoring the in-camera picture control for Nikon. But really, have you used Adobe software for other cameras? I am also using Fuji cameras. ACR doesn't automatically recognize my Fuji in-camera film simulations either. Even though they do provide Adobe camera profiles for the Fuji film simulations. I just have to apply one manually if I so choose.

Bottom line on all this is that it's simple... and it's not simple.

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Mike Dawson

Concerning applying in camera picture controls... Adobe should define together with the top camera companies a default picture control api/xml/exif  specification which camera companies can write to and ACR/LR/other raw companies can read from to apply the picture control settings onto the raw image.

Keeps it simple.

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