Fuji GFX with 50 and/or 100 mega pixel sensor

Started Jan 17, 2017 | Discussions thread
Erik Kaffehr
Erik Kaffehr Senior Member • Posts: 1,816
Re: Fuji GFX with 50 and/or 100 mega pixel sensor
6

Priaptor wrote:

Macro guy wrote:

philm5d wrote:

Here's the comparitive size of formats. The Fuji looks like a "jumbo" version of FX35mm rather than a mini medium format. Hardly worth the bother really. Maybe one day we'll get a fully affordable digital true medium format system.

I completely agree. Everyone makes a big deal out of a barely bigger sensor than a FF. Reminds me of Emperor's New Clothes.

Well I have to respectfully disagree. The difference in size of the sensors is pretty significant and not just "barely bigger". Besides resolution I think dynamic range will prove my POV to be correct.

NOW whether the differences are worth it, in terms of price and features that you have to give up, compared to the 35FX is another story.

From my perch, my initial opinion based on what people were posting made the X1D pretty exciting until I read Kevin's review regarding focus issues, metering limitations and shutter lag which if it isn't remedied kind of rules it out as a legitimate choice for me; especially shutter lag that has no place in today's world of photography. While the Fujifilm appears to have many of the bells and whistles I want, it comes in a much bigger size than I might want to carry and only reviews will show if some of the limiting issues of the X1D exist in the Fuji, although, based on the specs it appears not, except that the X1D works in 16bit vs Fuji 14bit, which puzzles me.

So while I don't agree with your assessment on size of sensor implications, when it boils down to overall size of the camera, flexibility of use, bells and whistles and price of one versus the other the 35FX isn't being replaced anytime soon and in that respect depending upon application, to most, the size of sensor will probably not be the deciding factor. BUT as a person whose favorite camera ever was the Mamiya 7 I really like the direction I see things going.

Hi,

The difference between Hasselblad using 16 bit and Fuji using 14 bits is essentially easy to explain.

Fuji GFX in RawDigger, max data value 15359 that 14 bit with black point substracted. Notice that there are no gaps in the data set.

X1D-50c in RawDigger , max data is 52553, clearly 16 bits. But you see the data is spiky. There is a spike followed by 3 lower channels. So the data actually uses each fourth channel. Where the rest is coming from is a mystery.

The Phase One IQ250 is more clear than the Hasselblad data:

The Phase One Data is also presented as 16 bits, but only uses each fourth channel.

So, all three have in common that they 14 bits worth of data. Phase One just multiplies each data point by four (<< 2 operation), Hasselblad does that, too, but mixes with the data, but the regular spikes indicate the real data.

So, the great difference between P1 and Hassy on side and Fuji on the other is that Fuji is telling the truth.

Now, there is a history behind this. Processors come in 8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit and 64-bit varieties. So, if you want to represent more 256 datavalues and less than 65535 you use a 16-bit number. So, you processing pipeline is 16 bit wide.

With CCD, the output from the sensor was analogue. So Phase One, Hasselblad and all others were building analog circuits and fed an analogue signal into a 16-bit Analogue to Digital Converter. But, the data coming out from sensor had something like 10.5 to 16 values of noise. So Phase One silently divided the data by 4, just saving he relevant info in 12 bits. The raw converter than multiplied by 4, and voilá, we had 6 bit data. Hasselblad saved the data with noise and all.

Back in 2007 Sony built a new architecture, called Exmoor. The Exmoor doesn't produce analogue output. It does raw conversion on sensor and delivers 14 bit digital output.

So, Phase One and Hasselblad invented 16 bit colour, that Photoshop cannot handle as it's internal representation is 15 bits. The whole 16 bit thing is just marketing.
But, for some reason the Sony sensor used in the Phase One IQ3-100MP has 15 bits worth of data and the ADC actually delivers 16 bits. The Hasselblad 100 MP camera uses the same sensor and also delivers 16 bit data. So, if you need 16 bit of data you can pay a bit more…

Best regards

Erik

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Erik Kaffehr
Website: http://echophoto.dnsalias.net
Magic uses to disappear in controlled experiments…
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