Beginner trying to maximize budget for first camera

Ruvins · Jan 8, 2017

Hello! Like what's written in the title, I'm kind of new and transitioning from Smartphone to learn photography as a hobby. I want to buy a mirrorless camera for me and my wife to be used for quality stills of our travel and also portraits of her and our 3 year old son. But we kind of have a limited budget of around $520 max only so I want to maximize what I can buy within that budget as much as possible. And it must have 180 degree tilting touchscreen for self portraits, as per request of my wife.

So after reviewing mirrorless cameras that fit in our budget, here are options of what's available in our local online market. Hoping for some advice which one would be the best to get out of this list.

2nd hand (100+ actuations) Olympus EPL7 with kit lens ~$468

2nd hand Olympus EPL5 + kit lens + 2nd hand Prime lens (either Pana 20mm f1.7 or Pana 45mm f1.8) ~$415 to $480

Brand New Sony A5000 + kit lens ~$431 (although, it's not touchscreen)

2nd hand Sony NEX5T + kit lens + Sony 50mm f1.8 ~$500

Brand New Panasonic Lumix GF8 $500

Nikon 1 J5 $416

Which one do you think would be the best to buy out of all of this? Or are there better ones?

Thank you for your time and help!

baloo_buc · Jan 9, 2017

Ruvins said:
Hello! Like what's written in the title, I'm kind of new and transitioning from Smartphone to learn photography as a hobby. I want to buy a mirrorless camera for me and my wife to be used for quality stills of our travel and also portraits of her and our 3 year old son. But we kind of have a limited budget of around $520 max only so I want to maximize what I can buy within that budget as much as possible. And it must have 180 degree tilting touchscreen for self portraits, as per request of my wife.

So after reviewing mirrorless cameras that fit in our budget, here are options of what's available in our local online market. Hoping for some advice which one would be the best to get out of this list.

2nd hand (100+ actuations) Olympus EPL7 with kit lens ~$468

A good camera. I would wonder why it is sold barely used.

Ruvins said:
2nd hand Olympus EPL5 + kit lens + 2nd hand Prime lens (either Pana 20mm f1.7 or Pana 45mm f1.8) ~$415 to $480

A decent camera. What you want to do with the prime (if general photo 20 mm might be better, for portraits 45 mm is more appropriate).

Ruvins said:
Brand New Sony A5000 + kit lens ~$431 (although, it's not touchscreen)

Good sensor. Quite handicapped camera. Kit lens is less than ideal.

Ruvins said:
2nd hand Sony NEX5T + kit lens + Sony 50mm f1.8 ~$500

If you get used with the idiosyncrasies of NEX line. Make sure you try one before buying.

Ruvins said:
Brand New Panasonic Lumix GF8 $500

I hope it's not body only.

Ruvins said:
Nikon 1 J5 $416

Low IQ. Better than your smartphone.

Ruvins said:
Which one do you think would be the best to buy out of all of this? Or are there better ones?

As you are not experienced to be able to thoroughly check a SH camera look for similar cameras that are new. Just buy a kit for now unless you know exactly why you get additional lenses.

Verify if there are some offers for Olympus E-M10 II with 14-42 mm. In Romania cost 617 € and you get 100 € cash back. It contains 19% VAT. This should be within your budget.

Ruvins said:
Thank you for your time and help!

beatboxa · Jan 9, 2017

Ruvins said:
Hello! Like what's written in the title, I'm kind of new and transitioning from Smartphone to learn photography as a hobby. I want to buy a mirrorless camera for me and my wife to be used for quality stills of our travel and also portraits of her and our 3 year old son. But we kind of have a limited budget of around $520 max only so I want to maximize what I can buy within that budget as much as possible. And it must have 180 degree tilting touchscreen for self portraits, as per request of my wife.

So after reviewing mirrorless cameras that fit in our budget, here are options of what's available in our local online market. Hoping for some advice which one would be the best to get out of this list.

2nd hand (100+ actuations) Olympus EPL7 with kit lens ~$468

2nd hand Olympus EPL5 + kit lens + 2nd hand Prime lens (either Pana 20mm f1.7 or Pana 45mm f1.8) ~$415 to $480

Brand New Sony A5000 + kit lens ~$431 (although, it's not touchscreen)

2nd hand Sony NEX5T + kit lens + Sony 50mm f1.8 ~$500

Brand New Panasonic Lumix GF8 $500

Nikon 1 J5 $416

Which one do you think would be the best to buy out of all of this? Or are there better ones?

Thank you for your time and help!

Out of those, in general the Nikon or Sony NEX5T will probably have the fastest and most accurate autofocus, which could be useful for shots of your son running around or focusing in darker environments.

Either Sony also will have the highest image quality (slightly) for how you'll probably need to use it--which is at higher ISO's.

On the flip side, the Sony lenses will probably be the most expensive, with the Nikon & Olympus & Panasonic being the least expensive. Further, the Olympus & Panasonic offer the most choice of lenses--there are only a handful of good Nikon lenses for this system.

The Olympus's also have image stabilization built into the bodies (rather than the lenses). This will help, for example, with some low-light selfies, but not for images of your toddler running around. If the other camera lenses have image stabilization built in (like the Sony 50mm F/1.8), then this point is less relevant.

Those are the facts: here's one conclusion. If you plan on purchasing more lenses and want good still images, go with the Olympus or Panasonic's. If you don't plan on buying a lot more lenses and want one with better image quality that can also take action, go with the NEX5T. If you want to watch budget but want a camera that's good for action, the Nikon J5 may be a good one. Initially, it sounds like the NEX5T with those lenses may align best to what you're looking for, but...

...before making a decision, read reviews and try playing around with the cameras to see which one feels right to use. You don't want to buy a camera just to then be confused by its menus or if it's uncomfortable or anything. There is a subjective factor to buying the cameras that nobody here will be able to help you with

Tenganis · Jan 9, 2017

Ruvins said:
Hello! Like what's written in the title, I'm kind of new and transitioning from Smartphone to learn photography as a hobby. I want to buy a mirrorless camera for me and my wife to be used for quality stills of our travel and also portraits of her and our 3 year old son. But we kind of have a limited budget of around $520 max only so I want to maximize what I can buy within that budget as much as possible. And it must have 180 degree tilting touchscreen for self portraits, as per request of my wife.

So after reviewing mirrorless cameras that fit in our budget, here are options of what's available in our local online market. Hoping for some advice which one would be the best to get out of this list.

2nd hand (100+ actuations) Olympus EPL7 with kit lens ~$468

2nd hand Olympus EPL5 + kit lens + 2nd hand Prime lens (either Pana 20mm f1.7 or Pana 45mm f1.8) ~$415 to $480

Brand New Sony A5000 + kit lens ~$431 (although, it's not touchscreen)

2nd hand Sony NEX5T + kit lens + Sony 50mm f1.8 ~$500

Brand New Panasonic Lumix GF8 $500

Nikon 1 J5 $416

Which one do you think would be the best to buy out of all of this? Or are there better ones?

Thank you for your time and help!

Have you considered the Sony a6000? It is currently selling for $489 with kit lens open box (full manufacturer warranty) on b&h.

KCook · Jan 9, 2017

None of those has a viewfinder! My suggestion would be to keep shopping, for a used Panasonic G6.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-g6

Kelly Cook

Ruvins · Jan 9, 2017

Thank you very much! Regarding your advice:

baloo_buc said:
baloo_buc said:

2nd hand (100+ actuations) Olympus EPL7 with kit lens ~$468

Click to expand...

A good camera. I would wonder why it is sold barely used.

I'm not sure but the seller of this camera is an admin of our local Mirrorless Camera FB group, and most of the items their selling comes from abroad (either they know someone abroad which then ships it to them, or they also buy online?) But they're reliable and trusted.

baloo_buc said:
baloo_buc said:

2nd hand Olympus EPL5 + kit lens + 2nd hand Prime lens (either Pana 20mm f1.7 or Pana 45mm f1.8) ~$415 to $480

Click to expand...

A decent camera. What you want to do with the prime (if general photo 20 mm might be better, for portraits 45 mm is more appropriate).

I'm kind of favoring 20mm because I mostly shoot my son and wife indoors, so I'm thinking 45mm might be too narrow.

baloo_buc said:
baloo_buc said:

Brand New Sony A5000 + kit lens ~$431 (although, it's not touchscreen)

Click to expand...

Good sensor. Quite handicapped camera. Kit lens is less than ideal.

baloo_buc said:

2nd hand Sony NEX5T + kit lens + Sony 50mm f1.8 ~$500

Click to expand...

If you get used with the idiosyncrasies of NEX line. Make sure you try one before buying.

Can I ask what do you mean about this?

baloo_buc said:
baloo_buc said:

Brand New Panasonic Lumix GF8 $500

Click to expand...

I hope it's not body only.

I forgot to add that it's with 12-32mm/F3.5-5.6 ASPH kit.

baloo_buc said:
baloo_buc said:

Nikon 1 J5 $416

Click to expand...

Low IQ. Better than your smartphone.

baloo_buc said:

Which one do you think would be the best to buy out of all of this? Or are there better ones?

Click to expand...

As you are not experienced to be able to thoroughly check a SH camera look for similar cameras that are new. Just buy a kit for now unless you know exactly why you get additional lenses.

Verify if there are some offers for Olympus E-M10 II with 14-42 mm. In Romania cost 617 € and you get 100 € cash back. It contains 19% VAT. This should be within your budget.

I still have time until I have the full funds to buy and think carefully what to get. But to get the EM10 II would mean to add $130 or more with kit lens, way above our budget. Also, my wife likes the tilting screen 180 deg. so EM10 II is not in my options.

baloo_buc said:
baloo_buc said:

Thank you for your time and help!

Click to expand...

--
Victor
Bucuresti, Romania

Cherylynne1 · Jan 9, 2017

Tenganis said:
Tenganis wrote:

Ruvins said:

Hello! Like what's written in the title, I'm kind of new and transitioning from Smartphone to learn photography as a hobby. I want to buy a mirrorless camera for me and my wife to be used for quality stills of our travel and also portraits of her and our 3 year old son. But we kind of have a limited budget of around $520 max only so I want to maximize what I can buy within that budget as much as possible. And it must have 180 degree tilting touchscreen for self portraits, as per request of my wife.

So after reviewing mirrorless cameras that fit in our budget, here are options of what's available in our local online market. Hoping for some advice which one would be the best to get out of this list.

2nd hand (100+ actuations) Olympus EPL7 with kit lens ~$468

2nd hand Olympus EPL5 + kit lens + 2nd hand Prime lens (either Pana 20mm f1.7 or Pana 45mm f1.8) ~$415 to $480

Brand New Sony A5000 + kit lens ~$431 (although, it's not touchscreen)

2nd hand Sony NEX5T + kit lens + Sony 50mm f1.8 ~$500

Brand New Panasonic Lumix GF8 $500

Nikon 1 J5 $416

Which one do you think would be the best to buy out of all of this? Or are there better ones?

Thank you for your time and help!

Click to expand...

Have you considered the Sony a6000? It is currently selling for $489 with kit lens open box (full manufacturer warranty) on b&h.

I would guess that OP has probably ruled out the a6000 because it doesn't have the 180 degree tilting touchscreen for selfies. However, I agree that it's the best camera in your budget for your needs. It has a viewfinder and a hotshoe, which are huge advantages over the a5000.

For indoor pictures of little ones running around, having an external flash on the hotshoe to bounce light off the ceiling is essential. It freezes action, even in low light, and when used correctly has a very pleasing and professional effect. It's also easy to learn how to do. The flash is an additional purchase that doesn't fit in your budget right now, but it's better to have that option than to have to buy a new camera later on as well as a flash.

The viewfinder will also be very helpful when you're traveling to sunny areas and the sun washes out the LCD screen. I use the viewfinder almost exclusively when outdoors. It also helps to have an electronic viewfinder outdoors so you can review your shots. That means you can look into the viewfinder, cutting out the bright sunlight, and see previews of the pictures you've just taken to make sure they came out the way you wanted.

I know your wife wants to do selfies, and there is an option for that. Sony mirrorless cameras come with an app called "Smart Remote." This app lets you connect the camera to your smart phone so you can see a live view of what your camera sees, and be able to take pictures from the smart phone. The first time you set it up it'll take a little while, but after that it should only take a minute or so to get it synced up. Granted, it's not as fast as just flipping up the screen, but you have the ability to walk further away from the camera and fit more people in the frame. Also, using longer focal lengths than you can with selfies is much more flattering.

baloo_buc · Jan 9, 2017

Ruvins said:
Thank you very much! Regarding your advice:

Ruvins said:

Ruvins said:

2nd hand (100+ actuations) Olympus EPL7 with kit lens ~$468

Click to expand...

A good camera. I would wonder why it is sold barely used.

Click to expand...

I'm not sure but the seller of this camera is an admin of our local Mirrorless Camera FB group, and most of the items their selling comes from abroad (either they know someone abroad which then ships it to them, or they also buy online?) But they're reliable and trusted.

If you trust the seller I see no problem. Where are you from? Some manufacturers refuse to repair the cameras that were not intended for that market even if you pay. It is worth to check beforehand.

Ruvins said:
Ruvins said:

Ruvins said:

2nd hand Olympus EPL5 + kit lens + 2nd hand Prime lens (either Pana 20mm f1.7 or Pana 45mm f1.8) ~$415 to $480

2nd hand Sony NEX5T + kit lens + Sony 50mm f1.8 ~$500

Click to expand...

If you get used with the idiosyncrasies of NEX line. Make sure you try one before buying.

Click to expand...

Can I ask what do you mean about this?

The NEX system has some peculiarities regarding handling, menu system and ergonomics that eventually contribute to their demise. Some people hated them some were OK with them. It is better to handle them (quite difficult now as they are not manufactured anymore) but if you have a friend that has one it is worth checking if you like using it.

Ruvins said:
Ruvins said:

Ruvins said:

Brand New Panasonic Lumix GF8 $500

Click to expand...

I hope it's not body only.

Click to expand...

I forgot to add that it's with 12-32mm/F3.5-5.6 ASPH kit.

Ruvins said:

Ruvins said:

Nikon 1 J5 $416

Click to expand...

Low IQ. Better than your smartphone.

Ruvins said:

Which one do you think would be the best to buy out of all of this? Or are there better ones?

Click to expand...

As you are not experienced to be able to thoroughly check a SH camera look for similar cameras that are new. Just buy a kit for now unless you know exactly why you get additional lenses.

Verify if there are some offers for Olympus E-M10 II with 14-42 mm. In Romania cost 617 € and you get 100 € cash back. It contains 19% VAT. This should be within your budget.

Click to expand...

I still have time until I have the full funds to buy and think carefully what to get. But to get the EM10 II would mean to add $130 or more with kit lens, way above our budget. Also, my wife likes the tilting screen 180 deg. so EM10 II is not in my options.

Ruvins said:

Ruvins said:

Thank you for your time and help!

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Ruvins · Jan 9, 2017

beatboxa said:
Out of those, in general the Nikon or Sony NEX5T will probably have the fastest and most accurate autofocus, which could be useful for shots of your son running around or focusing in darker environments.

Either Sony also will have the highest image quality (slightly) for how you'll probably need to use it--which is at higher ISO's.

On the flip side, the Sony lenses will probably be the most expensive, with the Nikon & Olympus & Panasonic being the least expensive. Further, the Olympus & Panasonic offer the most choice of lenses--there are only a handful of good Nikon lenses for this system.

The Olympus's also have image stabilization built into the bodies (rather than the lenses). This will help, for example, with some low-light selfies, but not for images of your toddler running around. If the other camera lenses have image stabilization built in (like the Sony 50mm F/1.8), then this point is less relevant.

Those are the facts: here's one conclusion. If you plan on purchasing more lenses and want good still images, go with the Olympus or Panasonic's. If you don't plan on buying a lot more lenses and want one with better image quality that can also take action, go with the NEX5T. If you want to watch budget but want a camera that's good for action, the Nikon J5 may be a good one. Initially, it sounds like the NEX5T with those lenses may align best to what you're looking for, but...

...before making a decision, read reviews and try playing around with the cameras to see which one feels right to use. You don't want to buy a camera just to then be confused by its menus or if it's uncomfortable or anything. There is a subjective factor to buying the cameras that nobody here will be able to help you with :

Unfortunately, physical stores selling the Oly and Panasonic here in our country are very rare, but I can probably let her try the Sony and Nikon when we go to the mall next time. My reason for maximizing the budget we have now is mostly because I'm not too sure that I can buy many new lens in the future, and so I would want to avoid buying a body or lens that I would need to upgrade for better IQ or experience. Thanks!

Ruvins · Jan 9, 2017

baloo_buc said:
baloo_buc said:

I'm not sure but the seller of this camera is an admin of our local Mirrorless Camera FB group, and most of the items their selling comes from abroad (either they know someone abroad which then ships it to them, or they also buy online?) But they're reliable and trusted.

Click to expand...

If you trust the seller I see no problem. Where are you from? Some manufacturers refuse to repair the cameras that were not intended for that market even if you pay. It is worth to check beforehand.

I'm from the Philippines. And warrant and repair is a major concern to consider Olympus in my decision. Because the company that was assigned for aftersales in our country have very bad reputation. The seller of that EPL7 emailed Olympus last time about our country's concern, and they replied that we can ship it to the nearest country with their Service Center and they will honor the warranty. So, do Olympus cameras have great durability? Especially the PENs that I'm thinking of buying?

baloo_buc said:
baloo_buc said:

baloo_buc said:

baloo_buc said:

2nd hand Olympus EPL5 + kit lens + 2nd hand Prime lens (either Pana 20mm f1.7 or Pana 45mm f1.8) ~$415 to $480

2nd hand Sony NEX5T + kit lens + Sony 50mm f1.8 ~$500

Click to expand...

If you get used with the idiosyncrasies of NEX line. Make sure you try one before buying.

Click to expand...

Can I ask what do you mean about this?

Click to expand...

The NEX system has some peculiarities regarding handling, menu system and ergonomics that eventually contribute to their demise. Some people hated them some were OK with them. It is better to handle them (quite difficult now as they are not manufactured anymore) but if you have a friend that has one it is worth checking if you like using it.

I'll probably ask more and read more reviews before going this path if ever.

baloo_buc said:
baloo_buc said:

baloo_buc said:

baloo_buc said:

Brand New Panasonic Lumix GF8 $500

Click to expand...

I hope it's not body only.

Click to expand...

I forgot to add that it's with 12-32mm/F3.5-5.6 ASPH kit.

baloo_buc said:

baloo_buc said:

Nikon 1 J5 $416

Click to expand...

Low IQ. Better than your smartphone.

baloo_buc said:

Which one do you think would be the best to buy out of all of this? Or are there better ones?

Click to expand...

As you are not experienced to be able to thoroughly check a SH camera look for similar cameras that are new. Just buy a kit for now unless you know exactly why you get additional lenses.

Verify if there are some offers for Olympus E-M10 II with 14-42 mm. In Romania cost 617 € and you get 100 € cash back. It contains 19% VAT. This should be within your budget.

Click to expand...

I still have time until I have the full funds to buy and think carefully what to get. But to get the EM10 II would mean to add $130 or more with kit lens, way above our budget. Also, my wife likes the tilting screen 180 deg. so EM10 II is not in my options.

baloo_buc said:

baloo_buc said:

Thank you for your time and help!

Click to expand...

--
Victor
Bucuresti, Romania

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Victor
Bucuresti, Romania

Thanks again!

Ruvins · Jan 9, 2017

Cherylynne1 said:
Cherylynne1 said:

Have you considered the Sony a6000? It is currently selling for $489 with kit lens open box (full manufacturer warranty) on b&h.

Click to expand...

I would guess that OP has probably ruled out the a6000 because it doesn't have the 180 degree tilting touchscreen for selfies. However, I agree that it's the best camera in your budget for your needs. It has a viewfinder and a hotshoe, which are huge advantages over the a5000.

For indoor pictures of little ones running around, having an external flash on the hotshoe to bounce light off the ceiling is essential. It freezes action, even in low light, and when used correctly has a very pleasing and professional effect. It's also easy to learn how to do. The flash is an additional purchase that doesn't fit in your budget right now, but it's better to have that option than to have to buy a new camera later on as well as a flash.

The viewfinder will also be very helpful when you're traveling to sunny areas and the sun washes out the LCD screen. I use the viewfinder almost exclusively when outdoors. It also helps to have an electronic viewfinder outdoors so you can review your shots. That means you can look into the viewfinder, cutting out the bright sunlight, and see previews of the pictures you've just taken to make sure they came out the way you wanted.

I know your wife wants to do selfies, and there is an option for that. Sony mirrorless cameras come with an app called "Smart Remote." This app lets you connect the camera to your smart phone so you can see a live view of what your camera sees, and be able to take pictures from the smart phone. The first time you set it up it'll take a little while, but after that it should only take a minute or so to get it synced up. Granted, it's not as fast as just flipping up the screen, but you have the ability to walk further away from the camera and fit more people in the frame. Also, using longer focal lengths than you can with selfies is much more flattering.

I hear good things about A6000, but Is the 16-50mm kit lens of A6000 okay? Because mostly I see negative opinions about it. And if ever I choose this one (although, I'll let my wife decide first if she wants no self portrait option), I'll be stuck with the kit lens based on our budget, because I'm not too sure if I'm able to buy another lens in the future. Most Sony lens here in our country are around $200 and above.

Cherylynne1 · Jan 9, 2017

Ruvins said:
Ruvins said:

Ruvins said:

Have you considered the Sony a6000? It is currently selling for $489 with kit lens open box (full manufacturer warranty) on b&h.

Click to expand...

I would guess that OP has probably ruled out the a6000 because it doesn't have the 180 degree tilting touchscreen for selfies. However, I agree that it's the best camera in your budget for your needs. It has a viewfinder and a hotshoe, which are huge advantages over the a5000.

For indoor pictures of little ones running around, having an external flash on the hotshoe to bounce light off the ceiling is essential. It freezes action, even in low light, and when used correctly has a very pleasing and professional effect. It's also easy to learn how to do. The flash is an additional purchase that doesn't fit in your budget right now, but it's better to have that option than to have to buy a new camera later on as well as a flash.

The viewfinder will also be very helpful when you're traveling to sunny areas and the sun washes out the LCD screen. I use the viewfinder almost exclusively when outdoors. It also helps to have an electronic viewfinder outdoors so you can review your shots. That means you can look into the viewfinder, cutting out the bright sunlight, and see previews of the pictures you've just taken to make sure they came out the way you wanted.

I know your wife wants to do selfies, and there is an option for that. Sony mirrorless cameras come with an app called "Smart Remote." This app lets you connect the camera to your smart phone so you can see a live view of what your camera sees, and be able to take pictures from the smart phone. The first time you set it up it'll take a little while, but after that it should only take a minute or so to get it synced up. Granted, it's not as fast as just flipping up the screen, but you have the ability to walk further away from the camera and fit more people in the frame. Also, using longer focal lengths than you can with selfies is much more flattering.

Click to expand...

I hear good things about A6000, but Is the 16-50mm kit lens of A6000 okay? Because mostly I see negative opinions about it. And if ever I choose this one (although, I'll let my wife decide first if she wants no self portrait option), I'll be stuck with the kit lens based on our budget, because I'm not too sure if I'm able to buy another lens in the future. Most Sony lens here in our country are around $200 and above.

For a beginner, yes. Here are a bunch of pictures taken with that camera and lens combo so you can see for yourself: https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=Sony 16-50 a6000 It's not enough for most professional photographers, or for photographers that pixel peep. But for a beginner that's learning how to use the camera, it's perfectly fine. Eventually you will want to upgrade, but that's true of any ILC camera you purchase. If you never want to change the lens in the future, then you should look at fixed lens cameras, not ILCs. ILCs are designed for people that want to use different lenses at some point in the future, and you won't get the full benefit of any of the sensors in those cameras with any kit lens.

Ruvins · Jan 9, 2017

KCook said:
None of those has a viewfinder! My suggestion would be to keep shopping, for a used Panasonic G6.

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-g6

Kelly Cook

I hear good things about G6 also, but I forgot to mention that we're looking for a bit compact ILC that we can still use even if we're just going to the mall or in the park.

To better tell our situation, my wife loves taking pictures especially from our smartphone before (a local made smartphone with 5 inches screen, and 5mp primary camera). But it broke down around 2 years or more ago. Ever since then we were only using non-smartphone ones. Then I bought a Xiaomi Yi Action camera last year (a GoPro alternative from the China market with Sony sensor and f2.8 aperture, but no screen in the back) and she was impressed with the quality upgrade from our past smartphone camera, but she said it's still lacking because she missed the screen and better experience to see what you're capturing. So fast forward last November 2016, we talked about getting a Samsung S7 because of it's great camera, we thought. But then we got scared since it's a smartphone and our son might break it many times (he broke his tablet many times now

). So that's when I suggested to just buy a compact ILC instead of S7, for better quality and to learn more photography skills, since mostly we use it for taking pictures. And that's when we also decided to look for camera with touchscreen, and 180 deg. tilting screen.

KCook · Jan 9, 2017

Ruvins said:
looking for a bit compact ILC that we can still use even if we're just going to the mall or in the park

Got it. The Panny GF8 is a little more compact than most of the cameras mentioned so far. Not so serious a choice as the E-M10 or G6 or a6000. But the GF8 would be fine for a trial go at photography. You could always upgrade some time off in the future, should you find that you do want to get more serious.

Kelly

Ruvins · Jan 9, 2017

KCook said:
KCook said:

looking for a bit compact ILC that we can still use even if we're just going to the mall or in the park

Click to expand...

Got it. The Panny GF8 is a little more compact than most of the cameras mentioned so far. Not so serious a choice as the E-M10 or G6 or a6000. But the GF8 would be fine for a trial go at photography. You could always upgrade some time off in the future, should you find that you do want to get more serious.

Kelly

Thank you Kelly. I'm still looking at it's review so that I can decide carefully. My wife really wants the selfie flip, and I'm happy to give it to her since it's already an upgrade from smartphone photography.

beatboxa · Jan 9, 2017

Ruvins said:
Ruvins said:

Ruvins said:

Have you considered the Sony a6000? It is currently selling for $489 with kit lens open box (full manufacturer warranty) on b&h.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

I hear good things about A6000, but Is the 16-50mm kit lens of A6000 okay? Because mostly I see negative opinions about it. And if ever I choose this one (although, I'll let my wife decide first if she wants no self portrait option), I'll be stuck with the kit lens based on our budget, because I'm not too sure if I'm able to buy another lens in the future. Most Sony lens here in our country are around $200 and above.

For what you want to shoot and your budget, I'd recommend against the A6000 + the kit lens. Here's why:

You mentioned portraits. If you like the 'background blur' effect for portraits & selfies, you will not get it with the kit lens. You will get it with the F/1.7 or F/1.8 lenses that you listed with some of the cameras.
You also mentioned your toddler, indoors. The kit lens will not be fast enough to take good shots indoor with minimal noise.
If you do want to upgrade eventually, I'd assume it would be much further in the future--maybe at least 1-2 years out? While the A6000 is a great camera and arguably better than some/most on that list, you'll get more immediate value out of the other cameras you listed with a better lens. Don't skimp out on lenses, or you might as well not get a good camera!

Here's an example (from Halloween) I took from the Panasonic 20mm F/1.7 lens:

This was taken with a Panasonic GM1. This camera has lower image quality than all of the other cameras except the Nikon 1 J5. Note the low lighting & slight background blur. This would have looked much worse (probably cell phone quality) with a slower lens.

baloo_buc · Jan 10, 2017

Support is very important for a decision to buy a camera. I never had an issue with warranty but I needed once a service after I fall with my camera on a granite floor and the lens was damaged. They repaired it in Germany not in Romania but we are in EU.

Consider what manufacturers offer as support (availability of lenses, accessories, service). I reckon the buying of the camera is quite a large expenditure in your family budget so you should be more careful than a person that earns that amount of money in a couple of days or a week.

As any product on average Olympus products are reliable. But you know one fact about averages. You may not the be in the 99.8% of owners that don't need any support but in the 0.2% that need it.

Good luck with your choice!

NoDOF · Jan 10, 2017

I can't answer your question about Olympus's reputation regarding warranty repairs, but I can say that I was so disgusted by the lack of support I received that I abandoned my efforts to switch from Canon to Oly. And I'm in the US.

Ruvins · Jan 10, 2017

beatboxa said:
For what you want to shoot and your budget, I'd recommend against the A6000 + the kit lens. Here's why:

You mentioned portraits. If you like the 'background blur' effect for portraits & selfies, you will not get it with the kit lens. You will get it with the F/1.7 or F/1.8 lenses that you listed with some of the cameras.

You also mentioned your toddler, indoors. The kit lens will not be fast enough to take good shots indoor with minimal noise.

If you do want to upgrade eventually, I'd assume it would be much further in the future--maybe at least 1-2 years out? While the A6000 is a great camera and arguably better than some/most on that list, you'll get more immediate value out of the other cameras you listed with a better lens. Don't skimp out on lenses, or you might as well not get a good camera!

Here's an example (from Halloween) I took from the Panasonic 20mm F/1.7 lens:

This was taken with a Panasonic GM1. This camera has lower image quality than all of the other cameras except the Nikon 1 J5. Note the low lighting & slight background blur. This would have looked much worse (probably cell phone quality) with a slower lens.

True, I was thinking about the lens also, because I remembered that the Action Camera we used has a f2.8 aperture, and that's what impressed my wife. You're also on point with my upgrade path, because as much as possible I would like atleast 1 prime, so an m43 might really be the best option for cheap lenses.

Thank you and love the pic you posted! I know the GM1 has no selfie screen, but since you have Pana 20mm, can I ask if you think that's a good lens for making atleast arm's length selfie of 1 to 2 people? Or it's too narrow?

Ruvins · Jan 10, 2017

Yes, I also have that in mind, but I've had a bunch of 2nd hand purchases in the past, and will just have to take care of my gadgets very carefully and so far they lasted very long even without warranty. I'll probably head the m43 path because of cheaper lenses. I'm only planning to buy around 1-2 lens (either the kit lens 14-42 or 40-150mm oly lenses; plus a fast prime of Pana 20mm 1.7). Thanks for the advice and will give you all the news once I buy one!

Beginner trying to maximize budget for first camera

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