How I suppose to get rid of reflection from lens?

naththo · Dec 18, 2016

Hi,

I have constant issue with lens reflection for night shot in long exposure shooting. Like this example below:

I have never had problem with older Canon camera such as 10D, 50D and 7D. So this with Sony A7 and 24-70mm lens, this is very strange. Edge glowing, starburst, light reflection with different colours. It just so bothersome and annoying. I cannot just simply get rid of in lightroom each because it is very time consuming.

So how I suppose to deal with this problem? Is it lens or is the camera with sensor reflection or what? Please explain.

Thanks!

Tristimulus · Dec 18, 2016

Sensor reflections - it is the camera and not the lens. Internal reflections in the glass in front of the image sensor.

Remedy: get the A7II. Or learn to live with the sensor reflections (my take).

The bad news is that there is no way around this one with the A7.

SQLGuy · Dec 18, 2016

Actually, there are a couple of things you can do about it:

1. Ensure that you are using an adapter whose internals are non-reflective. If the manufacturer didn't do a good enough job, you can repaint them with Krylon super matte "Camo" paint, or add some flocking material that's normally used for telescopes. This helps a bit to a lot depending on the exact nature of internal reflections.

2. You can have the camera modded by Kolari Vision. Their thin sensor mod (mainly meant to improve edges when using rangefinder lenses) also includes a new cover glass that has a much better anti-reflective coating than the original A7 one. This mod also removes the AA filter, BTW. Kolari may also be able to replace A7 cover glass with A7R cover glass (less reflections) if you don't want the full mod.

Bobo Hodls · Dec 18, 2016

SQLGuy said:
Actually, there are a couple of things you can do about it:

1. Ensure that you are using an adapter whose internals are non-reflective. If the manufacturer didn't do a good enough job, you can repaint them with Krylon super matte "Camo" paint, or add some flocking material that's normally used for telescopes. This helps a bit to a lot depending on the exact nature of internal reflections.

2. You can have the camera modded by Kolari Vision. Their thin sensor mod (mainly meant to improve edges when using rangefinder lenses) also includes a new cover glass that has a much better anti-reflective coating than the original A7 one. This mod also removes the AA filter, BTW. Kolari may also be able to replace A7 cover glass with A7R cover glass (less reflections) if you don't want the full mod.

Kolari doesn't have those thin sensor mods with the special coating readily available.

I wrote to them a few weeks ago - my thin-sensor mod on the A7s produces pretty reliable distinct cyan ghosts on strong light sources. I heard there was a newer coating available, but they don't have in on hand now. I wasn't sure whether I wanted to pay another $400 to fix the side effect of the thin-filter correction done over a year ago, but I wanted to know if there was a cure. It's not always a significant distraction, but when it is. . .

For whatever that's worth, anyway.

--
...Bob, NYC
.
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
.

Bobo Hodls

Explore Bobo Hodls’s 5,812 photos on Flickr!

www.flickr.com

http://www.bobtullis.com

.

SQLGuy · Dec 18, 2016

Interesting. The AR coating was supposed to be part of the 3rd generation thin stack mod. I guess they either ran into supply problems or some other undesirable side effect.

I would expect they can still do the A7R cover glass swap, though, as that's an OE part, and they also likely have some from converted A7Rs.

Tristimulus · Dec 18, 2016

Also have an astromodded Canon 6D with a Baader filter (modded by Canon in Germany). As soon as the camera was modded - viola - sensor reflections!

So my A7 cameras and the astromodded 6D show sensor reflections - but if this is a big issue another camera - like the A7II - might be a solution.

Mordi · Dec 18, 2016

Bob Tullis said:
SQLGuy said:

Actually, there are a couple of things you can do about it:

1. Ensure that you are using an adapter whose internals are non-reflective. If the manufacturer didn't do a good enough job, you can repaint them with Krylon super matte "Camo" paint, or add some flocking material that's normally used for telescopes. This helps a bit to a lot depending on the exact nature of internal reflections.

2. You can have the camera modded by Kolari Vision. Their thin sensor mod (mainly meant to improve edges when using rangefinder lenses) also includes a new cover glass that has a much better anti-reflective coating than the original A7 one. This mod also removes the AA filter, BTW. Kolari may also be able to replace A7 cover glass with A7R cover glass (less reflections) if you don't want the full mod.

Click to expand...

Kolari doesn't have those thin sensor mods with the special coating readily available.

I wrote to them a few weeks ago - my thin-sensor mod on the A7s produces pretty reliable distinct cyan ghosts on strong light sources. I heard there was a newer coating available, but they don't have in on hand now. I wasn't sure whether I wanted to pay another $400 to fix the side effect of the thin-filter correction done over a year ago, but I wanted to know if there was a cure. It's not always a significant distraction, but when it is. . .

For whatever that's worth, anyway.

2 great images

Bobo Hodls said:
--
...Bob, NYC
.
"Well, sometimes the magic works. . . Sometimes, it doesn't." - Chief Dan George, Little Big Man
.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bobtullis/
http://www

Bobo Hodls · Dec 18, 2016

SQLGuy said:
Interesting. The AR coating was supposed to be part of the 3rd generation thin stack mod. I guess they either ran into supply problems or some other undesirable side effect.

I would expect they can still do the A7R cover glass swap, though, as that's an OE part, and they also likely have some from converted A7Rs.

Sure, it's only the AR coating material that's scarce.

Since doing that I'm primarily using lenses that play better with original filter - I'm weighing whether to ask for the original sensor filter to be restored (they should have plenty of those around [g]).

.

Bobo Hodls · Dec 18, 2016

Mordi said:
2 great images

I like your taste in photographs, a LOT [g].

Seriously - thank you.

naththo · Dec 18, 2016

Thanks everyone, interesting bit of reading about what the side effect of those reflection. I might have a look around and see what does A7II do with night shot as I noticed the A7II is a bit older now and price should have drop fairly good for now so it won't be that too expensive now. Still I like the original old A7 because of fairly wide dynamic range for landscape though. Most of reflection only occur at night, day time I got away with much less problem anyway.

naththo · Dec 18, 2016

SQLGuy said:
Actually, there are a couple of things you can do about it:

1. Ensure that you are using an adapter whose internals are non-reflective. If the manufacturer didn't do a good enough job, you can repaint them with Krylon super matte "Camo" paint, or add some flocking material that's normally used for telescopes. This helps a bit to a lot depending on the exact nature of internal reflections.

2. You can have the camera modded by Kolari Vision. Their thin sensor mod (mainly meant to improve edges when using rangefinder lenses) also includes a new cover glass that has a much better anti-reflective coating than the original A7 one. This mod also removes the AA filter, BTW. Kolari may also be able to replace A7 cover glass with A7R cover glass (less reflections) if you don't want the full mod.

blue_skies · Dec 18, 2016

naththo said:
Thanks everyone, interesting bit of reading about what the side effect of those reflection. I might have a look around and see what does A7II do with night shot as I noticed the A7II is a bit older now and price should have drop fairly good for now so it won't be that too expensive now. Still I like the original old A7 because of fairly wide dynamic range for landscape though. Most of reflection only occur at night, day time I got away with much less problem anyway.

Check this album for nightshots with A7ii: flickr-link

I took such images with the A7 before, and it was, like you, full of sensor reflections. With the A7ii the reflections are pretty well controlled now.

My main reason for upgrading to the A7ii was the reduced glare, not the IS. I considered the Kolari mod as well, but opted for the A7ii instead.

Your other options are the A7r and A7rII. Had the A7rII become available prior to the A7ii, I may have chosen that one, but as of now I am pleased with the A7ii.

A7ii

A7 with CV35/1.4 Nokton at f/1.4 - see the reflections

--
Cheers,
Henry

naththo · Dec 19, 2016

blue_skies said:
naththo said:

Thanks everyone, interesting bit of reading about what the side effect of those reflection. I might have a look around and see what does A7II do with night shot as I noticed the A7II is a bit older now and price should have drop fairly good for now so it won't be that too expensive now. Still I like the original old A7 because of fairly wide dynamic range for landscape though. Most of reflection only occur at night, day time I got away with much less problem anyway.

Click to expand...

Check this album for nightshots with A7ii: flickr-link

I took such images with the A7 before, and it was, like you, full of sensor reflections. With the A7ii the reflections are pretty well controlled now.

My main reason for upgrading to the A7ii was the reduced glare, not the IS. I considered the Kolari mod as well, but opted for the A7ii instead.

Your other options are the A7r and A7rII. Had the A7rII become available prior to the A7ii, I may have chosen that one, but as of now I am pleased with the A7ii.

A7ii

A7 with CV35/1.4 Nokton at f/1.4 - see the reflections

--
Cheers,
Henry

Absolutely I think it is good to get A7II rather than taking a risk to have it modded. Thats the best option like what you did went from that to A7II. And much improved AF would be nice in A7II over old one. $1999 currently is the price in Australia I checked so thats not too bad. Maybe next year it might come down more.

sevo_stille · Dec 19, 2016

Trollmannx said:
The bad news is that there is no way around this one with the A7.

Kolari mod (or any other cover glass mod).

ProfHankD · Dec 19, 2016

Trollmannx said:
Sensor reflections - it is the camera and not the lens. Internal reflections in the glass in front of the image sensor.

Within the sensor filter stack... not between sensor and lens.

There are three reasons you see this:

Sony sensors are shiny compared to some other makes
Sony sensors have enough dynamic range to clearly show reflections that would have been invisibly obscured by the noise floor on, for example, Canon sensors
Those lights are way overexposed! Why did you shoot at ISO500? This should have been at ISO100 and the same or even less exposure -- you can still recover the darker areas in postprocessing

That said, the A7II sensor is less prone to such issues.

BBQue · Dec 19, 2016

naththo said:
blue_skies said:

naththo said:

Thanks everyone, interesting bit of reading about what the side effect of those reflection. I might have a look around and see what does A7II do with night shot as I noticed the A7II is a bit older now and price should have drop fairly good for now so it won't be that too expensive now. Still I like the original old A7 because of fairly wide dynamic range for landscape though. Most of reflection only occur at night, day time I got away with much less problem anyway.

Click to expand...

Check this album for nightshots with A7ii: flickr-link

I took such images with the A7 before, and it was, like you, full of sensor reflections. With the A7ii the reflections are pretty well controlled now.

My main reason for upgrading to the A7ii was the reduced glare, not the IS. I considered the Kolari mod as well, but opted for the A7ii instead.

Your other options are the A7r and A7rII. Had the A7rII become available prior to the A7ii, I may have chosen that one, but as of now I am pleased with the A7ii.

A7ii

A7 with CV35/1.4 Nokton at f/1.4 - see the reflections

--
Cheers,
Henry

Click to expand...

Absolutely I think it is good to get A7II rather than taking a risk to have it modded. Thats the best option like what you did went from that to A7II. And much improved AF would be nice in A7II over old one. $1999 currently is the price in Australia I checked so thats not too bad. Maybe next year it might come down more.

Except for the night reflection issue and the lack of IBIS, there is little difference between A7 and A7ii (basically none, as far as image quality goes). A REALLY BIG JUMP in image quality comes by going from A7ii to A7rii. It's a bit more pricey, but should be available for $2500 US next year. Quite possibly the last camera you, or anyone else (and definitely I myself) would ever need.

I had all three - I am still astonished by the leap from A7ii to A7rii. Every time I open an image and go to 100% it still gives me that initial "wow".

naththo · Dec 19, 2016

BBQue said:
naththo said:

blue_skies said:

naththo said:

Thanks everyone, interesting bit of reading about what the side effect of those reflection. I might have a look around and see what does A7II do with night shot as I noticed the A7II is a bit older now and price should have drop fairly good for now so it won't be that too expensive now. Still I like the original old A7 because of fairly wide dynamic range for landscape though. Most of reflection only occur at night, day time I got away with much less problem anyway.

Click to expand...

Check this album for nightshots with A7ii: flickr-link

I took such images with the A7 before, and it was, like you, full of sensor reflections. With the A7ii the reflections are pretty well controlled now.

My main reason for upgrading to the A7ii was the reduced glare, not the IS. I considered the Kolari mod as well, but opted for the A7ii instead.

Your other options are the A7r and A7rII. Had the A7rII become available prior to the A7ii, I may have chosen that one, but as of now I am pleased with the A7ii.

A7ii

A7 with CV35/1.4 Nokton at f/1.4 - see the reflections

--
Cheers,
Henry

Click to expand...

Absolutely I think it is good to get A7II rather than taking a risk to have it modded. Thats the best option like what you did went from that to A7II. And much improved AF would be nice in A7II over old one. $1999 currently is the price in Australia I checked so thats not too bad. Maybe next year it might come down more.

Click to expand...

Except for the night reflection issue and the lack of IBIS, there is little difference between A7 and A7ii (basically none, as far as image quality goes). A REALLY BIG JUMP in image quality comes by going from A7ii to A7rii. It's a bit more pricey, but should be available for $2500 US next year. Quite possibly the last camera you, or anyone else (and definitely I myself) would ever need.

I had all three - I am still astonished by the leap from A7ii to A7rii. Every time I open an image and go to 100% it still gives me that initial "wow".

Still retailed at $4100 to $4500 in Australia for A7RII body only. Exchange rate influence that.

naththo · Dec 19, 2016

ProfHankD said:
Trollmannx said:

Sensor reflections - it is the camera and not the lens. Internal reflections in the glass in front of the image sensor.

Click to expand...

Within the sensor filter stack... not between sensor and lens.

There are three reasons you see this:

Sony sensors are shiny compared to some other makes

Sony sensors have enough dynamic range to clearly show reflections that would have been invisibly obscured by the noise floor on, for example, Canon sensors

Those lights are way overexposed! Why did you shoot at ISO500? This should have been at ISO100 and the same or even less exposure -- you can still recover the darker areas in postprocessing

That said, the A7II sensor is less prone to such issues.

I still got the same reflection result at lower ISO such as ISO 50 and ISO 100. You will never get rid of reflection from Sony A7. Now tonight I just noticed my lens got a nice tiny bit of crack. It shouldn't crack like that even I don't drop at all. It can be seen with the torch shine through, crack is shown up easily. I think this is not good. My dad has similar problem he has a tiny lens crack on his Sony RX1 (Original first version) but it hasn't affect his image quality somehow, so it hasn't affect my either though.

blue_skies · Dec 19, 2016

naththo said:
BBQue said:

naththo said:

blue_skies said:

naththo said:

Thanks everyone, interesting bit of reading about what the side effect of those reflection. I might have a look around and see what does A7II do with night shot as I noticed the A7II is a bit older now and price should have drop fairly good for now so it won't be that too expensive now. Still I like the original old A7 because of fairly wide dynamic range for landscape though. Most of reflection only occur at night, day time I got away with much less problem anyway.

Click to expand...

Check this album for nightshots with A7ii: flickr-link

I took such images with the A7 before, and it was, like you, full of sensor reflections. With the A7ii the reflections are pretty well controlled now.

My main reason for upgrading to the A7ii was the reduced glare, not the IS. I considered the Kolari mod as well, but opted for the A7ii instead.

Your other options are the A7r and A7rII. Had the A7rII become available prior to the A7ii, I may have chosen that one, but as of now I am pleased with the A7ii.

A7ii

A7 with CV35/1.4 Nokton at f/1.4 - see the reflections

--
Cheers,
Henry

Click to expand...

Absolutely I think it is good to get A7II rather than taking a risk to have it modded. Thats the best option like what you did went from that to A7II. And much improved AF would be nice in A7II over old one. $1999 currently is the price in Australia I checked so thats not too bad. Maybe next year it might come down more.

Click to expand...

Except for the night reflection issue and the lack of IBIS, there is little difference between A7 and A7ii (basically none, as far as image quality goes). A REALLY BIG JUMP in image quality comes by going from A7ii to A7rii. It's a bit more pricey, but should be available for $2500 US next year. Quite possibly the last camera you, or anyone else (and definitely I myself) would ever need.

I had all three - I am still astonished by the leap from A7ii to A7rii. Every time I open an image and go to 100% it still gives me that initial "wow".

Click to expand...

Exactly, pixel peeping gets you that wow effect. For all practical purposes, if you don't need 42Mp, the A7ii is just as good. It falls one stop behind the A7rii now, but perhaps the A7iii will fix this.

The A7ii also has the AA filter, great for video, but cannot match the resolution of the A7rii.

For many (most?) of us, the A7ii is plenty of camera!

naththo said:
Still retailed at $4100 to $4500 in Australia for A7RII body only. Exchange rate influence that.

The price differential is huge, and makes you wonder whether you need it or not.

I found the A7 to A7ii to be a worthwhile upgrade. The A7rii is better, but its cost is prohibitive.

Unless you will keep the camera a long time, but so far that hasn't need the case, as an upgrade seems warranted even two years or so.

--
Cheers,
Henry

BBQue · Dec 19, 2016

blue_skies said:
naththo said:

BBQue said:

naththo said:

blue_skies said:

naththo said:

Thanks everyone, interesting bit of reading about what the side effect of those reflection. I might have a look around and see what does A7II do with night shot as I noticed the A7II is a bit older now and price should have drop fairly good for now so it won't be that too expensive now. Still I like the original old A7 because of fairly wide dynamic range for landscape though. Most of reflection only occur at night, day time I got away with much less problem anyway.

Click to expand...

Check this album for nightshots with A7ii: flickr-link

I took such images with the A7 before, and it was, like you, full of sensor reflections. With the A7ii the reflections are pretty well controlled now.

My main reason for upgrading to the A7ii was the reduced glare, not the IS. I considered the Kolari mod as well, but opted for the A7ii instead.

Your other options are the A7r and A7rII. Had the A7rII become available prior to the A7ii, I may have chosen that one, but as of now I am pleased with the A7ii.

A7ii

A7 with CV35/1.4 Nokton at f/1.4 - see the reflections

--
Cheers,
Henry

Click to expand...

Absolutely I think it is good to get A7II rather than taking a risk to have it modded. Thats the best option like what you did went from that to A7II. And much improved AF would be nice in A7II over old one. $1999 currently is the price in Australia I checked so thats not too bad. Maybe next year it might come down more.

Click to expand...

Except for the night reflection issue and the lack of IBIS, there is little difference between A7 and A7ii (basically none, as far as image quality goes). A REALLY BIG JUMP in image quality comes by going from A7ii to A7rii. It's a bit more pricey, but should be available for $2500 US next year. Quite possibly the last camera you, or anyone else (and definitely I myself) would ever need.

I had all three - I am still astonished by the leap from A7ii to A7rii. Every time I open an image and go to 100% it still gives me that initial "wow".

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Exactly, pixel peeping gets you that wow effect. For all practical purposes, if you don't need 42Mp, the A7ii is just as good. It falls one stop behind the A7rii now, but perhaps the A7iii will fix this.

The A7ii also has the AA filter, great for video, but cannot match the resolution of the A7rii.

For many (most?) of us, the A7ii is plenty of camera!

blue_skies said:

Still retailed at $4100 to $4500 in Australia for A7RII body only. Exchange rate influence that.

Click to expand...

The price differential is huge, and makes you wonder whether you need it or not.

I found the A7 to A7ii to be a worthwhile upgrade. The A7rii is better, but its cost is prohibitive.

Unless you will keep the camera a long time, but so far that hasn't need the case, as an upgrade seems warranted even two years or so.

--
Cheers,
Henry

It's not just pixel peeping. It is also the cropability it gives you. I took the camera to Egypt last Spring, and it is amazing to zoom into the images and study the hieroglyph inscriptions of the temples into the tiniest details. Best camera I have had. Do I "need" that kind of resolution? Of course not. But I love having it !!! I also love the look I get if I downsample to 24MP or even 16MP - at high ISO as clean and gorgeous as the A7s files!

PS: love your photo of the bridge above!!! Very nice composition.

How I suppose to get rid of reflection from lens?

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