Phase detection and E-Mount isn't an option ?

Gents I've been following this thread


regarding the lack of option on Phase detection AF settings with native E mount, i tested this theory with my 28mm F2 and it does indeed not give you any option to choose PAF i get invalid with this lens, Pack who has posted this thread noticed this on his G Master 24-70

Anybody explain why that is, does PAF just work on E-Mount ? According to Packs convosation with Sony all E mounts dont use PAF currently

I get PAF with my Metabones and Canon Glass so why not E, seems a bit weird

Im sure there is some scientific reason why not, any care to explain, or is this sony being daft again...

Tobamory said:

Gents I've been following this thread

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4059416#forum-post-58426561

regarding the lack of option on Phase detection AF settings with native E mount, i tested this theory with my 28mm F2 and it does indeed not give you any option to choose PAF i get invalid with this lens, Pack who has posted this thread noticed this on his G Master 24-70

Anybody explain why that is, does PAF just work on E-Mount ? According to Packs convosation with Sony all E mounts dont use PAF currently

I get PAF with my Metabones and Canon Glass so why not E, seems a bit weird

Im sure there is some scientific reason why not, any care to explain, or is this sony being daft again...

Click to expand...

If you've updated your camera FW, the e-mount lenses use hybrid AF if I'm not wrong. So there's no need to select PDAF in the menu because its already using it.

It's grayed out for native lenses cause it's already employing it. Those options are for non-native lenses. Af-c wide would be the easiest test to see if it tracks a subject.

thanks guys..

midraresteak said:

It's grayed out for native lenses cause it's already employing it. Those options are for non-native lenses. Af-c wide would be the easiest test to see if it tracks a subject.

Click to expand...

Just for my own interest, does it use hybrid CDAF/PDAF with native lenses and PDAF only with non-native?

Is there any option to use PDAF only (for better continuous focusing) with native lenses?

Chris R-UK said:

Is there any option to use PDAF only (for better continuous focusing) with native lenses?

Click to expand...

No. On a7, a7II, a7RII, a6000 and a6300, Native lenses get Hybrid AF which is BETTER than PDAF alone.

That the phase detection options are only there for non-native lenses makes a lot of sense.

I will do more tests, but I'm finding my a7R II with FE 24-70 GM to be terrible at tracking objects even under ideal conditions. My original concern was that there could be a problem with the lens, which I purchased on eBay. The fact that the phase detection options were disabled seemed like a clue.

Even if that is normal because the hybrid AF capabilities are baked into to native lenses, it doesn't solve the focus issue that I'm having in AF-C

I'm hoping someone can let me know what LENS firmware their FE 24-70 GM has. Mine is ver 01.

Has anyone had success tracking objects without crazy jittery hunting with this lens/camera combo?

Thanks for the responses thus far!

Brian_Smith said:

Chris R-UK said:

Is there any option to use PDAF only (for better continuous focusing) with native lenses?

Click to expand...

No. On a7, a7II, a7RII, a6000 and a6300, Native lenses get Hybrid AF which is BETTER than PDAF alone.

Click to expand...

I shoot birds in flight with an Olympus EM-1 which has a pure PDAF mode which is used automatically when an Olympus 4/3 DSLR lens is attached. Last year Olympus issued a firmware update which allowed M4/3 native lenses to use the pure PDAF in one particular high speed continuous focusing mode.

On the E-M1 when shooting birds in flight the hybrid CDAF/PDAF mode will track the bird but moves in and out of focus as the CDAF checks the focus. This means that some of the images in the burst will always be out of focus. The pure PDAF mode does not suffer from the same problem and is definitely better for BIF.

Of course the Sony hybrid AF system may be better than Olympus's, especially if Sony got the technology from Nikon's 1 Series - I believe that there was a technology interchange of some sort between Sony and Nikon 2-3 years ago.

Olympus has just announced that E-M1ii but the information on exactly how the continuous AF will work is still a but vague. That is why I am interested in the Sony A7ii system.

Thanks Tobamory and Chris for pointing me to the proper forum.

And thank you MRWEC and midraresteak for the informative responses.

It's clear that Sony E-Mount lenses are fully capable of hybrid AF, which of course includes phase detection. This what I expected from my GM lens from the beginning. It's unfortunate that the Sony support tech I chatted with was completely ignorant of this fact.

It seems to me that a phase detection only option would still be useful, but if the hybrid AF were working properly for me, that would be great.

I mentioned before that I would love to hear from another FE 24-70 f/2.8 GM owner who could let me know if their lens firmware is ver 01, as mine is, or a factory installed update that is newer than that. This may have nothing to do with my issue, but I would like to rule it out. (It does not appear that any updates are available for this lens.)

Brian_Smith said:

Chris R-UK said:

Is there any option to use PDAF only (for better continuous focusing) with native lenses?

Click to expand...

No. On a7, a7II, a7RII, a6000 and a6300, Native lenses get Hybrid AF which is BETTER than PDAF alone.

Click to expand...

Sometimes, depending on what you're doing. It's also obviously worse sometimes.

Tobamory said:

Gents I've been following this thread

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4059416#forum-post-58426561

regarding the lack of option on Phase detection AF settings with native E mount, i tested this theory with my 28mm F2 and it does indeed not give you any option to choose PAF i get invalid with this lens, Pack who has posted this thread noticed this on his G Master 24-70

Anybody explain why that is, does PAF just work on E-Mount ? According to Packs convosation with Sony all E mounts dont use PAF currently

I get PAF with my Metabones and Canon Glass so why not E, seems a bit weird

Im sure there is some scientific reason why not, any care to explain, or is this sony being daft again...

Click to expand...

All native E-mount lenses are Hybrid AF / PDAF capable, with the exception of the E16 (Sel16f28).

For some older (mostly APS-C) lenses, a lens firmware update has to be done to make the PDAF capable, and some older model cameras also have new firmware that improves things. Check for the latest firmware update for lens and camera model at the sony support site.


[EDIT - posted this to your referred thread as well]

Native lenses use hybrid AF, which uses PDAF for initial focusing and has a final CDAF refinement phase. (At least in AF-S - when in AF-C, it's pure PDAF with a few rare exceptions).

Switching from the "dancing squares" to the large box says that CDAF was used - but it does NOT indicate that PDAF was NOT used. The difference can be seen by looking at focusing behavior of a PDAF-capable native lens vs. one that isn't. The initial direction of the CDAF hunt will change depending on subject distance if PDAF is used, but will always be the same if PDAF isn't in play.

It's most noticeable if you have a lens with a focus distance indicator and a Metabones IV in Advanced mode with flexible spot AF - if the spot is in the center you see different behavior than if it isn't. Sadly, in the case of native-emulating EF adapters, the CDAF refinement phase tends to drive the lens too fast, resulting in overshoot and hunting to the point that PDAF hinting is of little advantage in those situations.

The menu item is only for legacy adapters (EA3 and those that emulate it) - giving the option of fast PDAF at the cost of some accuracy (A long time ago there was a discussion of canon's dual-pixel system - OSPDAF has the advantage of the baseline always matching the lens aperture, but the disadvantage of a 1-2 stop baseline accuracy penalty compared to a legacy fixed-baseline PDAF system) or accurate CDAF at the cost of a massive speed penalty (A-mount lenses aren't well suited to CDAF so the body has to slow everything down to compensate, as evidenced for example by the repeated microstepping phase of legacy-adapter CDAF.)

My recently purchased 24-70 GM has indeed also the version 01. It's also important to know that the phase detection autofocus system shuts down above F8 (with native lenses). After F8 the camera only uses cdaf.

pklop said:

My recently purchased 24-70 GM has indeed also the version 01.

Click to expand...

If there were a prize, you would win! Thanks for confirming that.

I just updated to 3.30 firmware and the option to turn on Phase Detection in the menu is no greyed out for me. (Using the FE 16-35 when I checked).

So selecting to use (or not use) Phase Detection in the menu is pointless if you're using only native FE lenses?