Just imagine what it would be like

Unnamed43 · Aug 12, 2003

I believe that Canon does extensive focus group research, tearing apart competitive cameras, looks at "real problems" coming into returns for the camera to design their next camera.

I DON'T believe for a second that the measurebators here have more than a comic-relief effect (best case) in R&D at Canon. This is because the measureabators are amateurs and/or inconsistent in what they say or believe.

Troponin said:
Be careful for what you ask for Dad.

Proud Dad said:

Since they don't own that equipment either, they can just start
analyzing over there!

That would do incredible harm to the Nikon-Canon cold war, but it
exporting undesirables is a proven technique!

Lee Rothman said:

If all the measurbaters, analyzers, obsessers and and complainers
in general were filtered from the forum, and all the folks here
were discussing photo technique, suggestions for lenses for
particular purposes and recommendations for additional peripheral
items to enhance their systems ONLY? It would be a far better world
and the stress levels would certainly go down. Oh and yes, of
course....the obvious.........there would be maybe as many as 20
people that would be immesureably frustrated by some issues they
would have with what they believe to be either defective or
incorrect operation of their goodies. Then if they were lucky (or
smart) just send it back to the vendor (who hopefully is a good
one) and get a replacement and try again.

I guess I'm in the minority when I say I'm darn sick and tired of
the picky incessant analyzing of gear and far less focus on the
important stuff mentioned above. I fully realize I'll get flamed
and put down for this, but frankly I'm way to busy working with my
gear for a living and don't have time to worry about what isn't
broken. For those of you who think you have something
broken..........get it fixed or get another one, but the incessant
whining on this and other boards is REEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY getting
OLD!!!!!

--
Body: 1D and Powershot A70 (for fun).Lenses: Canon 16-35 2.8L,
24-70 2.8L, 70-200 2.8L IS, 100-400L, Sigma 180mm EX Macro, 1.4xII
and 2.0xII teleconverters, 2 550EX Flashes, with ST-E2 remote,
Gossen Starlight Lightmeter, LowePro PhotoTrekker AW and Toploader
Zoom AW bags and Tamrac 757 shoulder/backpack. Singh-Ray GND
filters, Gitzo 2227CF Explorer Tripod, Gitzo 1588 Monopod. Assorted
extras......

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

--
Troponin (Trop)
'No Limitation is Limitation'
and I still can't spell worth a dang!

DavidP #28649 · Aug 12, 2003

Doug Walker said:
DavidP said:

Paul V said:

So, once again, as I've posted many times on this forum, my
favorite Lance Armstrong quote:

"It's not about the bike..."

Click to expand...

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

Click to expand...

--
Doug Walker
Check my profile for equipment list.

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

Sikjoven · Aug 12, 2003

After all, he is the ultimate camera tester and must be that way to do his thorough reviews. How can any pro not be concerned with testing his equipment? I'm just beginning but so far the teachers I've had all agree that you must know your gear and know how it works and be sure that it is working well.

I don't understand the pros on this site.

Lee Rothman said:
If all the measurbaters, analyzers, obsessers and and complainers
in general were filtered from the forum, and all the folks here
were discussing photo technique, suggestions for lenses for
particular purposes and recommendations for additional peripheral
items to enhance their systems ONLY? It would be a far better world
and the stress levels would certainly go down. Oh and yes, of
course....the obvious.........there would be maybe as many as 20
people that would be immesureably frustrated by some issues they
would have with what they believe to be either defective or
incorrect operation of their goodies. Then if they were lucky (or
smart) just send it back to the vendor (who hopefully is a good
one) and get a replacement and try again.

I guess I'm in the minority when I say I'm darn sick and tired of
the picky incessant analyzing of gear and far less focus on the
important stuff mentioned above. I fully realize I'll get flamed
and put down for this, but frankly I'm way to busy working with my
gear for a living and don't have time to worry about what isn't
broken. For those of you who think you have something
broken..........get it fixed or get another one, but the incessant
whining on this and other boards is REEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY getting
OLD!!!!!

--
Body: 1D and Powershot A70 (for fun).Lenses: Canon 16-35 2.8L,
24-70 2.8L, 70-200 2.8L IS, 100-400L, Sigma 180mm EX Macro, 1.4xII
and 2.0xII teleconverters, 2 550EX Flashes, with ST-E2 remote,
Gossen Starlight Lightmeter, LowePro PhotoTrekker AW and Toploader
Zoom AW bags and Tamrac 757 shoulder/backpack. Singh-Ray GND
filters, Gitzo 2227CF Explorer Tripod, Gitzo 1588 Monopod. Assorted
extras......

dnjake · Aug 12, 2003

Islands of the blessed. Bless me son, I never met a blessed one.

People talk about what they are interested in. The quality level here is vastly above what you usually see on forums. Those who are not interested in topics or in particular peoples views can select what they read. Those who want to start different threads are free to do so.

David Jacobson

William C · Aug 12, 2003

... the secert handshake to insure who is in and out of this forum. I do not think is will be a far better world. If they cannot argue about ruler test, they will argue about something else.

But it is almost time for our monthly bash B&H Photo messages again! There will be three camps, those who hate B&H, those who like B&H and those who just like causing trouble.

Bill

--

New Yorkers like to think that their city is the center of the universe, and after spending some time there, I am not so sure they are wrong.

Bob Krist, Spirit of Place

Pearl Rider · Aug 12, 2003

... conclusions being jumped to by people who don't know what they're doing. Phil has had LOTS and LOTS of experience doing this unlike someone who just got their first DSLR (or SLR for that matter) and is being urged to torture test it right out of the box. I'd also say that he does read the user manual thoroughly and puts the camera through "real world" paces to get a feel for it.

I find it interesting that many of the people who've responded to me that they believe that a camera should be tested say that it should happen AFTER problems are noted in "real world" shots. We are in agreement in this statement. This is in contrast with what measurbators, the very people they're defending, are promoting. David wants people to ruler/chart test the camera as soon as they get it out of the box.

Paul V54639 · Aug 12, 2003

...that to most talented professionals, the equipment doesn't matter.

This goes for photographers, musicians, artists, etc...does good equipment help make creating their vision easier? Yes...but the standouts will always be the ones who have the vision to begin with.

If you're a hack at playing the guitar and haven't put in your time and paid your dues, a great instrument will just make you sound like a hack who owns a great instrument.

Same goes for photogs...

DavidP #28649 · Aug 12, 2003

That's simply not true.

Most pro's don't carry point/n/shoots for a reason.

And lots of pros try to make sure they have great equipment, and fret over things like tuning it properly, etc.

Yes, they have talent. And they can utilize a poor instrument better than others. But to say the equipment doesn't matter is sheer folly.

Paul V said:
...that to most talented professionals, the equipment doesn't matter.

This goes for photographers, musicians, artists, etc...does good
equipment help make creating their vision easier? Yes...but the
standouts will always be the ones who have the vision to begin with.

If you're a hack at playing the guitar and haven't put in your time
and paid your dues, a great instrument will just make you sound
like a hack who owns a great instrument.

Same goes for photogs...

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

Paul V54639 · Aug 12, 2003

David,

You just don't get it...and, I guess, you never will...

DavidP said:
Most pro's don't carry point/n/shoots for a reason.

And lots of pros try to make sure they have great equipment, and
fret over things like tuning it properly, etc.

Yes, they have talent. And they can utilize a poor instrument
better than others. But to say the equipment doesn't matter is
sheer folly.

Paul V said:

...that to most talented professionals, the equipment doesn't matter.

This goes for photographers, musicians, artists, etc...does good
equipment help make creating their vision easier? Yes...but the
standouts will always be the ones who have the vision to begin with.

If you're a hack at playing the guitar and haven't put in your time
and paid your dues, a great instrument will just make you sound
like a hack who owns a great instrument.

Same goes for photogs...

Click to expand...

--
The Lowest Paid Concert Photographer Around
http://www.neonlightsimaging.com/artshow/final.htm
Photography -- just another word for compromise

'Since we can't keep crime in check, why don't we legalize it and
tax it out of business?' -- Will Rogers

Louis44 · Aug 13, 2003

Member said:
I guess I'm in the minority when I say I'm darn sick and tired of
the picky incessant analyzing

It's not even "analyzing", these threads are also not "discussions".

It's a shame how a handful of people are able to ruin a forum like this. It's even more so a shame how people simply let this happen.

Lee Rothman · Aug 13, 2003

I've been a guitarist for over 40 years. I've played both professionally as well as an amatuer. Owned my own 8 track digital recordiing studio with a LOT of fine gear involved (Neumann mics, Korg Synths, Aphex processors etc) and I'm here to tell you that while I am a huge fan of Martin and Taylor guitars (IMHO the finest the world has to offer) there are exceptions out there as a single instrument that would not cost anywheres near as much as the Martin or Taylor, that will supply awesome results. I've play a few errant Ibanez acoustics that blew me away both in action and tone. They were $300 off the shelf. So it is NOT the same as what you espouse always......perhaps MOST of the time with exceptions. I think it is natural that a professional will desire the finest gear available as a natural method of taking away any limitations they might otherwise incur.

Paul V54639 said:
If you're a hack at playing the guitar and haven't put in your time
and paid your dues, a great instrument will just make you sound
like a hack who owns a great instrument.

Same goes for photogs...

--

Body: 1D and Powershot A70 (for fun).Lenses: Canon 16-35 2.8L, 24-70 2.8L, 70-200 2.8L IS, 100-400L, Sigma 180mm EX Macro, 1.4xII and 2.0xII teleconverters, 2 550EX Flashes, with ST-E2 remote, Gossen Starlight Lightmeter, LowePro PhotoTrekker AW and Toploader Zoom AW bags and Tamrac 757 shoulder/backpack. Singh-Ray GND filters, Gitzo 2227CF Explorer Tripod, Gitzo 1588 Monopod. Assorted extras......

Lee Rothman · Aug 13, 2003

Actually I answer more than a dozen personal emails a day, via the fact the folks see relevant products they are interested in and want to ask me about, other than clogging up the bandwidth of the board and post general questions here. I think that is at least as good a service to the board. Sorry if you don't agree........

Jeff Holmes said:
Perhaps you would consider doing your own bit for the forum and
removing your equipment list from your posts so that the search
function can produce useful results.

--

Body: 1D and Powershot A70 (for fun).Lenses: Canon 16-35 2.8L, 24-70 2.8L, 70-200 2.8L IS, 100-400L, Sigma 180mm EX Macro, 1.4xII and 2.0xII teleconverters, 2 550EX Flashes, with ST-E2 remote, Gossen Starlight Lightmeter, LowePro PhotoTrekker AW and Toploader Zoom AW bags and Tamrac 757 shoulder/backpack. Singh-Ray GND filters, Gitzo 2227CF Explorer Tripod, Gitzo 1588 Monopod. Assorted extras......

Scot Perry · Aug 13, 2003

Lee Rothman said:
If all the measurbaters, analyzers, obsessers and and complainers
in general were filtered from the forum, and all the folks here
were discussing photo technique, suggestions for lenses for
particular purposes and recommendations for additional peripheral
items to enhance their systems ONLY? It would be a far better world
and the stress levels would certainly go down. Oh and yes, of
course....the obvious.........there would be maybe as many as 20
people that would be immesureably frustrated by some issues they
would have with what they believe to be either defective or
incorrect operation of their goodies. Then if they were lucky (or
smart) just send it back to the vendor (who hopefully is a good
one) and get a replacement and try again.

I guess I'm in the minority when I say I'm darn sick and tired of
the picky incessant analyzing of gear and far less focus on the
important stuff mentioned above. I fully realize I'll get flamed
and put down for this, but frankly I'm way to busy working with my
gear for a living and don't have time to worry about what isn't
broken. For those of you who think you have something
broken..........get it fixed or get another one, but the incessant
whining on this and other boards is REEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY getting
OLD!!!!!

--
Body: 1D and Powershot A70 (for fun).Lenses: Canon 16-35 2.8L,
24-70 2.8L, 70-200 2.8L IS, 100-400L, Sigma 180mm EX Macro, 1.4xII
and 2.0xII teleconverters, 2 550EX Flashes, with ST-E2 remote,
Gossen Starlight Lightmeter, LowePro PhotoTrekker AW and Toploader
Zoom AW bags and Tamrac 757 shoulder/backpack. Singh-Ray GND
filters, Gitzo 2227CF Explorer Tripod, Gitzo 1588 Monopod. Assorted
extras......

Scot Perry · Aug 13, 2003

I use to not test my gear out of the box but proved myself wrong by it costing me on the job. My poor experience with Canon 10D has changed my attitude I will carefully test my new Canon gear in future and suggest any pro semipro do the same. If of course you are new to Canon or slr's it would be advantageous to aquaint yourself with the equipment before testing it.

Scot Perry

Pearl Rider said:
... conclusions being jumped to by people who don't know what
they're doing. Phil has had LOTS and LOTS of experience doing this
unlike someone who just got their first DSLR (or SLR for that
matter) and is being urged to torture test it right out of the box.
I'd also say that he does read the user manual thoroughly and puts
the camera through "real world" paces to get a feel for it.
I find it interesting that many of the people who've responded to
me that they believe that a camera should be tested say that it
should happen AFTER problems are noted in "real world" shots. We
are in agreement in this statement. This is in contrast with what
measurbators, the very people they're defending, are promoting.
David wants people to ruler/chart test the camera as soon as they
get it out of the box.

Scot Perry · Aug 13, 2003

Scot Perry said:
Lee Rothman said:

If all the measurbaters, analyzers, obsessers and and complainers
in general were filtered from the forum, and all the folks here
were discussing photo technique, suggestions for lenses for
particular purposes and recommendations for additional peripheral
items to enhance their systems ONLY? It would be a far better world
and the stress levels would certainly go down. Oh and yes, of
course....the obvious.........there would be maybe as many as 20
people that would be immesureably frustrated by some issues they
would have with what they believe to be either defective or
incorrect operation of their goodies. Then if they were lucky (or
smart) just send it back to the vendor (who hopefully is a good
one) and get a replacement and try again.

I guess I'm in the minority when I say I'm darn sick and tired of
the picky incessant analyzing of gear and far less focus on the
important stuff mentioned above. I fully realize I'll get flamed
and put down for this, but frankly I'm way to busy working with my
gear for a living and don't have time to worry about what isn't
broken. For those of you who think you have something
broken..........get it fixed or get another one, but the incessant
whining on this and other boards is REEEEEEEEEEEEEALLY getting
OLD!!!!!

--
Body: 1D and Powershot A70 (for fun).Lenses: Canon 16-35 2.8L,
24-70 2.8L, 70-200 2.8L IS, 100-400L, Sigma 180mm EX Macro, 1.4xII
and 2.0xII teleconverters, 2 550EX Flashes, with ST-E2 remote,
Gossen Starlight Lightmeter, LowePro PhotoTrekker AW and Toploader
Zoom AW bags and Tamrac 757 shoulder/backpack. Singh-Ray GND
filters, Gitzo 2227CF Explorer Tripod, Gitzo 1588 Monopod. Assorted
extras......

Click to expand...

--

Pearl Rider · Aug 13, 2003

Scot Perry said:
I use to not test my gear out of the box but proved myself wrong by
it costing me on the job. My poor experience with Canon 10D has
changed my attitude I will carefully test my new Canon gear in
future and suggest any pro semipro do the same. If of course you
are new to Canon or slr's it would be advantageous to aquaint
yourself with the equipment before testing it.

Scot Perry

If you don't check your equipment out before you do paying work with it, shame on you. The testing should also include getting familar with the equipment. Don't assume that, because you've used an SLR before or even an SLR from the same company, that you'll know just how the NEW one is going to work. They're always changes being made and each camera will have it's own quirks or biases. For example, I have two 10Ds and can tell slight differences in each. They're not different enough to make a big deal of but I'm sure some people here would try. ;-)
The main point is to get acqainted with the equipment.

Kevin Morris · Aug 13, 2003

At the risk of stating the obvious, the "Canon SLR" forum is intended to be about Canon SLRs. This is not necessarily about photography, nor technique, nor art. Perhaps you need to visit a forum dedicated to general photographic technique rather than one dedicated, quite specifically, to one group of cameras.

--
Tuktu Sijuktei
'Please tell me if the lens cap is on.'

Ben Strasser · Aug 13, 2003

anyone reading these threads knows there are good tests and bad tests to determine if there is a problem. How to select a good target for the AF sensor has also been discussed many, many, many times.

My suggestion would be for Phil to post a FAQ on the topic. Anyone with a suspected focus issue should be directed there.

Jimmer said:
I agree that it is an equipment forum but how many times can we
have the same discussion (i.e. focus issues) over and over again
with the same people participating.

It’s the same thing over and over. It’s the same thing over and
over. It’s the same thing over and over. Get’s kinda tiresome –
doesn’t it?

I realize that there are new people all the time that are asking
questions (and there is nothing wrong with that) but unless there
is something new to be added, can’t they be directed to the endless
number of older threads on the same subject???

Ben Strasser · Aug 13, 2003

The "so called" focus issue has been beaten to death. Anyone reading these threads knows there are good tests and bad tests to determine if there is a problem. How to select a good target for the AF sensor has also been discussed many, many, many times.

My suggestion would be for Phil to post a FAQ on the topic. Anyone with a suspected focus issue should be directed there.

Doug Walker · Aug 13, 2003

is not against forum rules - there is no such rule. However, it is recommended by many here, including myself, to list equipment in your profile so as not to screw up the search results.

--
Doug Walker
Check my profile for equipment list.

Just imagine what it would be like

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